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LETS SEE: How About a HIDDEN SPEAKER Thread?!?! Let's SEE What Can't BE SEEN!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by KIRK!, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. travisfromkansas
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,711

    travisfromkansas
    Member
    from Gypsum, KS

    Mine's not real high tech, just recovered the factory rear deck with 2 layers of black speaker cloth.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Subscribing to this, I am.
    Speakers work best when in line of sight. Bass may be the exception. It seems that you could sort of aim the 5" kick panel speakers the best you can and add some little drivers for stereo imaging. An old Bazooka tube and it should sound. New cars always have that little tweeter, on the A pillar or corner of the door. I hope somebody has done this.
     
  3. 51 BIRD
    Joined: Jan 5, 2010
    Posts: 433

    51 BIRD
    Member

    Hello Phil! You're pretty close. The higher the frequency,the more directional.
    I like to mount a pair of 1" tweeters to the backside of the rearview mirror and fire them into the windshield.


     
  4. Thirdyfivepickup
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 6,093

    Thirdyfivepickup
    Member

    You know, this may be the one time we can steal some ideas from the street rod crowd.

    In the 40 I would think you could do seperates up front... mount the biggest possible speaker you can in the door. Then mount the tweeters up high, you may even be able to put them above the windshield.

    I dont know if there is any outlet for a speaker in the dash, but what Denise showed was a cool idea. If you have something like that, you could do a single speaker up front, but ff it were me I'd like to see 2 speakers in there, not one.

    For rears there has to be a way to put some 6X9 speakers in the package tray like shown above. Fire it through the fabric.

    I have a feeling you arent wanting to go with the perforated panel route... That is going to make things a little more difficult. I'd look into seeing what color speaker cloth comes in to see if you can match it all up.

    The amp is simple... unless you go more exotic with your system. If you just go for 2 fronts, 2 rears and a sub you should be fine. Anything more and you might have to go with 2 amps.
     
  5. sawzall
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,731

    sawzall
    Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  6. Well now I don't have to exhaust my Skotch Kooler surplus.
     
  7. Glen
    Joined: Mar 21, 2001
    Posts: 1,789

    Glen
    Member

  8. JJK
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 889

    JJK
    Member

  9. KIRK!
    Joined: Feb 20, 2002
    Posts: 12,031

    KIRK!
    Member

    Let's see more!
     
  10. 55chieftan
    Joined: Feb 13, 2008
    Posts: 309

    55chieftan
    Member
    from Maryland

    A simple solution would be to do the package tray normal. Have your speakers showing, have perforated cloth over it or speaker cloth. Have the package tray sunken some. Build a thin tray to place overtop of it when you park it. Slide the tray over it to cover up the speakers and upholster with any cloth you want. Then no speakers show and you are set. The tray underneath it is submerged so you can't tell it's a panel overtop of it. Problem solved.
     

  11. Our family lugged one of those EVERYWHERE for the 1st 20 years of my life... I'm havin' FLASHBACKS :eek::D!!!
     
  12. slick39
    Joined: Jan 20, 2008
    Posts: 695

    slick39
    Member
    from dallas ,ga

    kool .....let's see more
     
  13. 51 BIRD
    Joined: Jan 5, 2010
    Posts: 433

    51 BIRD
    Member

    I like the cooler!
    Also,for the rear deck you can use backless carpet. It's available in many colors and is acoustically transparent.
    Alway remember to put your best stuff up front. That's where your ears are. The rear is good for bass and ambient fill. I'm not a big fan of speakers in kick panels. If your ears were in your ankles,they'd be great! Always try to use the original dash speaker location. Many times,you can fabricate a mounting board (Masonite) and sneek a pair of full-range speakers in there.
    And if you need grille cloth: it's just doubleknit. Available everywhere
     
  14. I love to see your speaker set up, 51 BIRD.
     
  15. luckystiff
    Joined: Mar 20, 2002
    Posts: 1,465

    luckystiff
    Member

    don't have any photos on my computer but i've built several stereo setups incased in vintage suitcases. i've done several speaker combos but will tell you a GOOD set of 6x9s is ALL you need. mount the speakers in one of the large flat panels and the deck in the "side" run a wired hook up that just plugs into a cig lighter. when not in use the whole thing can be flipped up/turned over and it just looks like you have an old vintage suitcase in you old car.

    if you really sink some time into it and seal off the inside(i've actually built a full enclosure that attached to the suitcase) it'll sound even better. the best part of all is if you own multiple cars all you can grab it and throw it in any of them. i worked for HiFonics car audio for years and delt with high end stuff and even owned one of the factory cars at one point and can tell you for general purpose listening the suitcase can sound pretty damned good. if you feel you need a little bass i haven't tried it myself but have seen a suitcase setup with 2 6.5" and a 10" woofer.

    i think there has been a thread on the suitcase stereo here before...ken....
     
  16. Thirdyfivepickup
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 6,093

    Thirdyfivepickup
    Member

    I got an idea off of the photo Glen posted. If you went with perforations you could incorporate a pinstriping pattern like Fat Luckys does on his seats.
     
  17. shmoozo
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 672

    shmoozo
    Member
    from Media, PA

    And it is available in a variety of colors, not just black and brown.

    :D
     
  18. When I get my trunk done, Im gonna either move my box into a vintage style cooler and put everything facing the cabin, which would hide everything or Im gonna make a block off panel for my trunk and put everything behind the block off panel.
    100 watts, horns, and 2-10's just isn't enough to get through my backseat without loosing all of my high's. So I'm gonna also put some speakers in the stock location to get some of my high end back, as well as get some better subs and a stronger amp.
     
  19. I'm not starting trouble, 'Crestline, but what kind of music wants that kind of power in a car? 2-10s move a lot of air. Most of the music I listen to has the stand up bass. Can a system like you describe reproduce well recorded accoustic music, like bluegrass?
     
  20. travisfromkansas
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,711

    travisfromkansas
    Member
    from Gypsum, KS

    I agree with the slight exception that kick panel speakers offer the best imaging compared to doors or even the dash (as most of our classic rides only have a single opening in the center). The reason that the sound the best is that the kicks offers the most equal path length (right side vs left side) from the speaker to your ear.

    The rest of this is a bit OT so feel free to message me if you want me to delete it from the thread.


    For those who want to use kick panels:
    Aim the speaker somewhere between straight across the car and at the opposite side of the car's head area. If you aim them directly across the car then the drop in signal at your ears due to being off axis will make up for the nearer speaker being closer to your ears. Aiming them too much up and back towards the listener can create too much near side bias (too loud on the near side speaker) and directs a lot of sound energy at the window which then just reflects the sound back into the car.

    It all comes down to what your goals are, if it's just to hear music, there's tons of options to hide a system. If you want the best sound possible then you have to make compromises along the way.

    Personally I still like the sound of good Horn Loaded Compression Drivers with large midbass drivers in the front floorboards, but that's out of my budget right now :). I will be using a combination of kick panel mounted coaxials (for now), a center channel with a separate volume control for tuning, rear coax's for more sound when the windows are down and a bit of ambience plus of course subs. I'm building on a tight budget and upgrading piece by piece documenting along the way for the Ford Galaxie Club of America's newsletter.
     
  21. travisfromkansas
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,711

    travisfromkansas
    Member
    from Gypsum, KS

    I think Crestline is referring to the highs being blocked by the seats more than the lows. 100 true watts even on a full range box will produce a ton of sound.

    For stand up bass (rockabilly, bluegrass, etc.) 2 10" subs with about 250 watts should be more than you need except at interstate speed with the windows down.
     
  22. Well, my current system does an "okay" job at projecting music, the lows are very heavy though. Much too heavy for my needs (considering I want a well balanced system and like I said all of my upper mids and highs are getting trapped in my seats). Also, my speakers face outward in the trunk, which also absorbs sound. The music I like sounds a bit "muddy." Fwiw, I listen to a lot of everything, from punk, lo-fi, noise, surf, to the occasional rockabilly band.

    I know its a lot of power, but that back seat causes some serious sound dampening. Before I put my back seat in, everything sounded crisp, sharp, and full. I also didn't have to max out my pre-amp to make it sound right. Since putting my full interior in, it just aborbs more sound is all. I just want more watts in an amp to give me more clean headroom, because solid-state distortion just sounds awful. I also need better speakers when I swap everything over to a truly hidden system. My junkie mtx terminator speakers (that are older then I know) cant live up to the abuse I dish out.

    Just fwiw, like has been said before, the placement and projection of everything has a massive impact on sound quality and audible volume. Yes, big speakers move big air, but not a lot of sound if everything is blocked out.
     
  23. Glen
    Joined: Mar 21, 2001
    Posts: 1,789

    Glen
    Member

    my front doors have the same setup, if you make the pattern correct it can have that cool 60's starburst effect that helps a lot.
     
  24. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,145

    Never2low
    Member

    http://www.selectproducts.com/site/index.php
    Select has just about everything you will ever need, supply wise. Ordering is a pain, though. Best bet is to locate a dealer and order through them. They have quite a few carpet, and grill cloth options, from OEM to custom colors.

    As far as amps go, several companies offer 5 channel amps, 2 front, 2 rear 1 sub. The key to space saving is to find a full digital amp, they do not produce the heat that Mosfet style amps do. They don't require large heat sinks to disapate heat, and can be stashed away without over heating concerns. Jl does offer one, http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=537, but it retails between $900 and $1000. Great amp, just out of most budgets. Alpine offers an equally quality product for around $600 http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/pdx-5/ And you can pick them up at Best buy stores.

    As for the Slim line subs, don't waste your money, unless you have zero, mounting options. You can find plenty of cheaper, "standard" subs that require less than 1 cubic foot, of air space. A solid "10 sub, sealed, should be around .75 cub's sealed. That put's your overall dimensions under 12x12x12, which isn't hard to conceal. If you have a wagon, a shallow sub is an option for mounting to the rear of the wheelwell, as an example http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_detail.php?fit_id=1580, but only if there is not sufficant depth for a traditional sub. Bass is non-directional, but is greatly effected by the material and thickness of the backseat. Vinyl and leather are not as condusive to sound transfer as cloth, but can be bypassed by cutting vents in the package tray. Enclosure design is the most criticle factor in a subs preformance. A well constucted enclosure can make or break a system. "3/4 medium density fiberbord, with bracing, to eliminate flexing. Music type will dictate what style enclosure will work best for you. In most cases, sealed is the best for sound quality, great for jazz and stand-up bass, but also for rock and country. Vented, or "ported", boxes produce a more "muddy" or boomy sound, condusive to hippity-hop, although they are more efficiant.

    As for front speaker placement refer to post #50 Travis gets "it".

    I know this may not have lead to any revelations,nor does it include anything "traditional" but I just thought I would add some basic rules to follow along with some technical info, as well to disprove some misconceptions.:cool:
     
  25. freakboy
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 41

    freakboy
    Member

    Or instead of doing that work leave it with the perferations in it, and when you go to shows just put some period correct...umm"reading materials"ie..playboys. I bet no one would ask questions or check under them either.
     
  26. travisfromkansas
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,711

    travisfromkansas
    Member
    from Gypsum, KS

    Kinda what I did on the Galaxie, mounted the speakers to wooden panels that are attached to the rear deck, then recovered the factory trim panel in grill cloth and tadaaa the speakers are completely hidden and it's a nice clean look. :)
     
  27. Nominal
    Joined: Jun 9, 2005
    Posts: 163

    Nominal
    Member

    I wanted better sounds than the stock AM radio in my 64 Merc. I didn't want to pull the underdash AC unit (done that one already - what a pain in the ass) or cut up the dash or door panels.

    I looked at making some new kick panels but the foot-operated parking brake doesn't leave much space on the drivers side.

    I ended up with a detachable-face head unit under the seat, with a flat cable connecting the face to the main unit. One of those powered hidden aerials is also under the seat. Radio reception is OK, would be better with a proper aerial, but that is already used for the stock radio (see AC note above).

    [​IMG]

    I built a couple of small sheetmetal speaker boxes for the front co-ax speakers, made them as big as possible to fit up under the dash and filled them with cushion stuffing before attaching the speakers


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I build a sub enclosure in behind the back seat with a couple of pieces of MDF, one seals off the trunk opening, the other is in front of that, just behind the seat back, where the convertible top pump lives. There is a 12" sub back there. I also stuck a couple of extra speakers behind the rear side trim panels, but I don't think they do much really. There is an amp in the trunk to run the sub.

    [​IMG]

    This was an on-the-cheap job. Sounds good enough to me, and fit the objectives I needed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  28. dodgerodder
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 1,943

    dodgerodder
    Member

    I am kind of at this point in my rpu build. I know that I will never get perfect sound in it, but I have to have music in it. I know that the speaker locations will never be ideal, because I don't wan't the speakers visible.

    I built pods to mount two 6 1/2's under the dash. I built the baffles from 3/4" black starboard. Starboard is awesome stuff-it is like plastic plywood. Used lots in marine applications-it doesn't warp or rot. It is available in many colors, and works like wood.

    To enclose the speakers I used these:
    http://www.discountweather.com/nc20.html

    They are molded white plastic, but I will paint them black. They fit a 6 1/2" speaker perfectly. Here's some pics of the speaker mounts as I was building them:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I built a housing to tuck the deck under the dash. The deck mounts recessed, because I don't want the deck to show. I will build a door that hinges and covers the whole front of the deck. Once this is all painted & the door is closed, it won't stick out too bad. It will look like an underdash heater or storage.


    Not ideal, but it'll work. I'll throw an amp, and a small single shallow mount sub in it & it will do a decent job. For a deck I'll get one that I can plug my ipod into & call it a day.

    Hope this helps a little

    Dan

    This shows some of the speaker pods & deck mounted without the dash in place:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And with the dash mounted:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]





     
    Wowcars likes this.
  29. KIRK!
    Joined: Feb 20, 2002
    Posts: 12,031

    KIRK!
    Member

  30. Lil' Billy
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,088

    Lil' Billy
    Member
    from Georgia

    Bought these off a HAMBer for the future project. Easy solution for speaker problems for a small car.
    [​IMG]
     

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