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Technical Lets build a crate HiPo SBC from the 1960s

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by panhead_pete, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,537

    panhead_pete
    Member

    Been looking at engine options and doing a little research. Car will be a budget build but new or rebuilt mechanicals, brakes and steering.

    Buying than getting built a 283 or even 327 is real money these days. Crate engines look more and more a viable option particularly as its cheap horsepower and companies like Blueprint seem to have a good reputation these days. The only issue for me is that most complete engines are Vortec heads, have huge HEI distributors and other garish parts and just dont look right in my not so humble opinion, particularly for here.

    For the purposes of this exercise Im looking at new only parts that are readily available. Many of us live overseas so keeping it simple saves us looking stupid(er) ;)

    To put it another way lets try and configure a HiPo OEM crate from the 60s (ignoring its a 350 :) )

    Keeping it real and knowing 350HP is heaps in an A coupe highboy (for me) starting with this crate from Blueprint without the heads seems like an affordable start. Part #BP3503CT1 Price is $2800 375HP/400Ft Ibs with 9.5:1 and roller cam. Doesnt appear on their site as a short block but they seem pretty receptive to pulling together a one off engine when I spoke them early this year. TBC.

    Screenshot (140).png


    Having ditched the Vortecs, Trick Flow have been producing Aluminum heads that mimic the old double hump 421 heads. Part #TFS-301210002 $1380/pair n Summit. Seems to be pretty good reviews and specs seem to be as good if not a little better than the Vortecs on the Blueprint above.

    tfs-30210002_it_xl.jpg

    Intakes, for simplicity I would want to run a single 4, dual plane with oil filler tube. Edelbrock do one with the oil filler tube but for some reason its got EPS script cast into it. Was that there back when they started making them? If not sure why they produce an old style intake then do that??? The made in the USA tag would need to go for aesthetics. Price $260.

    002703_v1.jpg
    Carb choice would be Holley 4150 650 in the Dichromate finish as it more closely resembles the OEM factory finish. Part #0-80783C $544 Summit.

    0-80783c.jpg


    Distributor wise most crates come with big ugly HEI units so having asked the brain trust here in this thread there are a few options.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...hat-dont-look-like-ass.1203580/#post-13720346

    There seems to be quite a bit of love (and disdain when they go wrong) for Pertronix. The coil doesnt really work for me and @bobss396 linked me to this one available here for $149. Looks good and for that price buying another for spares in case something goes wrong isnt too extreme.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-327-350-SMALL-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-45K-COIL-8-5mm-BLACK-WIRES-UNDER-EXHAUST/184036226872?_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20200520130048&meid=8b7c432238494cc797ef8cc736cca267&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&mehot=pf&sd=200950815713&itm=184036226872&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV2bDemotion&brand=Custom&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

    s-l1600.jpg

    Valve covers are available from all the big suppliers and one of my personal favs are the offys but I came across these guys recently and really like what they are doing and are quite affordable at $225 and would be good to support some small guys.
    https://www.spotlitekustomaccessories.com/store/p11/Finned_Chevy_Valve_Covers.html.

    One upside of these is that I could run an intake sans the oil filler tube too.

    Screenshot (143).png

    Well thats it for now as have to head out. Please feel free to comment etc, all input is good input. Air cleaners etc would still be needed. :)
     
  2. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 7,137

    jimmy six
    Member

    Like your idea. But the rocker covers have got to go... I agree with needing an oil fill on the front of the manifold and there are repo oil tubes with screw in PCV systems. There’s got to one out there as a dual plane with a front fill.
    Not for a a V8 but one manufacturer produces an in-line small cap HEI and it performs flawlessly.
     
  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,259

    Budget36
    Member

    That is a nice option for the HEI.

    Edit:

    Would also work for a BBC as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  4. 327Eric
    Joined: May 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,514

    327Eric
    Member
    from Diablo Ca.

    Damn. Pricy engine.
     
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  5. wackdaddy
    Joined: Nov 11, 2015
    Posts: 181

    wackdaddy
    Member

    Here's my take on the subject ...
    L31 GM crate (vortec 9.5 compression, roller cam)
    Offy staggered bolt valve covers
    Pertronix dizzy
    Tripower & front oil fill
    Zips water pump riser
    IMG_3298.JPG IMG_3299.JPG
     
  6. Dennis D
    Joined: May 2, 2009
    Posts: 643

    Dennis D
    Member

    350 or 365 horse intake from a 65-67 Corvette works and looks correct. Please don't run those gagme valve covers. D
     
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  7. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,981

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Your saying a crate engine from the sixties. So in order to qualify for the HAMB, it's gonna be a 283 or a 327. Your talking 283's that you could buy over the counter and 327's. right? I don't understand all this vortec head and dual plane manifold stuff. Lippy
     
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  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,530

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  9. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,981

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    But nevermind it's a 350?
     
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  10. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,454

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I agree that the valve covers look wrong.

    I have to ask about the quality of gasoline and it's cost in Japan. That could affect what compression ratio you shoot for. I assume it's good quality because of the fine engines that Japan produces, but thought I would ask to be sure.
    Be sure that the heads you choose are compatible with your pistons as far as compression ratio goes before you order them. Then check pushrod length before buying any of them. I'd recommend some stainless steel roller rocker arms from Comp cams. If the short block has a roller cam you should use roller rockers too. It's not period correct but no one can see them and being that far away you will want quality .
    One more thing, make sure the distributor gear is compatible with a roller cam or it will cause you major problems. They are changeable
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  11. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,981

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I don't care if it's Japan. This is the HAMB.
     
  12. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,981

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I don't care where he lives read his thread topic.
     
  13. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,151

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I like running 327 covers without holes cut for breathers, found that when running only a filler tube the crankcase pressure builds at rpm and then sprays a oil mist out of the filler tube on to your engine.
    1st I use a moroso #25050 lifter valley baffle tray to keep oil from splashing the bottom of intake manifold.
    Then drill and tap what ever filler tube intake you decide to use for a 5/8 heater hose nipple at the area where the factory mounted the coil, (between the distributor and carburetor) to vent the rear of the engine. The 5/8 hose can be used as a downdraft tube or to install an inline pcv.
    This picture is vortec heads, valve cover adapters and a summit vortec intake manifold that is drilled for epoxied filler tube in along the above modifications.
    Works as it should on this 1964 Chevelle um-er-er 327 ;) 11-23-19.JPG
    Norb
     
  14. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 5,199

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    SHhhhh. You will get Lippy’s dander up again . :p
     
  15. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 3,981

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Last two I did would have been similar to what we did in the late 60's. Could buy new 327's from Chevrolet-300HP, 350HP and 365HP. Both sm journal 327's 462 heads, 350HP L79 factory intakes 327 Tin covers-both went in 40 coupes, one had an old Sig erson grind and the other a Crane split duration. Both pretty spunky in a 40 too.
    The one with AC is a 65 sm journal too with 69 041 heads-looks period and runs strong-in a 39 woody
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  16. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,982

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Just think of it as a welded crank stroker.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 860

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    327 valve covers for sure. Use the closed-PCV style with the screw-in PCV in the filler tube (with non-vent cap) and the vent coming from the back of the block, venting into the air cleaner. This will stop the oil spray Tickety is talking about. Option starting in 1964.
     
  18. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,982

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    I’m a small journal Chevy guy and probably have enough blocks to last a long time (people tend to throw them away and if you know which ones can easily go 4inch your in!) however; I’ve seen some guys do a pretty good job making crate engines look early!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  19. The fact it is a right hand dipstick is the bigger issue. They didn't come along until 1979 or 1980.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  20. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,537

    panhead_pete
    Member

    First of all thanks all for the feedback, advice and pics. Some real nice engines in those pics!

    Having had a little more time to think about it this is the image I have in my mind even though its a 302 ;) . CdmA5UTUAAA6K6s.jpg CdmA5UTUAAA6K6s.jpg



    Re it being a 350 I did specifically state 'To put it another way lets try and configure a HiPo OEM crate from the 60s (ignoring its a 350 :) )' but anyway lets continue :)

    Funny re the valve covers, after posting this I had a 2 hour drive and was thinking it exactly the same re their lack of suitability. During those moments of reflection, whilst part of me was thinking OEM Corvette script would be better the rest of me was thinking that has been over played so 327 OEM or similar would be much better so thanks for confirming that and the info around the breathers and PCV etc.

    Re breathing the Edelbrock filler pipe has a built in PCV so from what I understand from the posts here and prior reading, if I run non vented valve covers I will need to drill the intake at the rear and hook up a downdraft tube to a catch can of some sort suggested by @Tickety Boo . Is that correct??

    @Mr48chev on the valve covers mounting, I didnt really include enough info sorry. One of the great thing about those heads is that even though they are set up for high lift valves they are cast with extra high valve cover mating surfaces and drilled to accept early valve covers so no need for adapters etc.

    @ekimneirbo great questions. Is it a brass gear I need to match that roller cam? Fuel availability is one of the reasons I was looking at an engine with 9.5:1 rather than 10+. I have easy access to 91 octane which I am thinking will be fine? If need be Im sure I can buy 93 and maybe 95.

    Whilst looking into L79 intakes as suggested by @olscrounger I have come across repo Z/28 intakes that look much better than that Edelbrock I intially posted and obviously have a great rep. $380 at Summit. Would need the filler opening machined out but that's hardly show stopper and being used in late 60s OEM fits with the concept of this post.

    https://www.jegs.com/i/OER/691/3932472/10002/-1

    Screenshot (145).png

    Thanks again fellas for your input, it all helps and please continue!
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  21. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,151

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Pete
    I once had the rear vent Hose running into a catch can (hidden behind the battery) but after running like that for several years (even with some drag some strip passes) the catch can was empty. Now running it as a down draft tube.
    Note: also had made a small oil deflector on bottom of intake under the hose nipple, that may have helped. I like your pick of the double hump heads.:cool:
    Norb
     
  22. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,454

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I would ask your crate engine builder what they recommend because they are the ones that have to stand behind their product. There are also composite gears available, but again I would talk to the engine supplier. Send them an email and then you have proof that you followed up on what THEY recommended.

    Its best to build the engine for what is always going to be available. High compression ratios are often problematic and 1/2 a point lower compression will be much more reliable. Find out what the CCs of the combustion chambers are..........and ask your engine builder if they are compatible with the shortblock they are supplying. While its nice (?) to be period correct in some folks eyes, don't give up the extra cubes to get there. In fact, I would inquire how much cost difference there is between buying a 350 and buying a stroked 350 (383). When you take your friends for a ride....or a race, a 383 is awsome compared to a period correct 283/327. Its possible that there isn't too much difference in cost.:D
     
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  23. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 7,137

    jimmy six
    Member

    To bad when your done nobody will buy it because it’s not a 383 “stroker” that every one must have to be in. I’ll take a 283 “stroker”’any day...... oh wait that’s a 307:rolleyes:
     
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  24. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 860

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    So that 302 pictured above has the closed PCV system installed. You can see the oil-fill tube with the screw-in PCV and the rubber hose going back to the carb. You can also see the breather hose snaking around the distributor's vacuum-advance and up to the air cleaner.
     
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  25. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,784

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    That is a 1967 Z/28 engine.
    This is my 67 Nova 327/350 hp engine, visually, it is nearly identical, save for the exhaust manifolds.
    The large curved metal tube that snakes around the distributor for the air cleaner hoookup is called a "fresh air tube", it is very hard to find in OEM, it is available in reproduction, as are the 65 Chevelle and Corvette version which is straight and is also available in reproduction.
    Fresh air tube 001.jpg Fresh air tube 002 (1).jpg Fresh air tube 003.jpg

     
  26. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,454

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    So if someone builds a period correct car they are not trying to be part of the "in crowd" with a specific to the inth degree build......but someone who is willing to forgo a dipstick tube on the correct side in order to gain 100 cu in and probably at least 100 hp does it just to be "in"?
    Huh, I never looked at it that way. I always thought we built hot rods just to be different from society.:cool:
     
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  27. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,274

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Have been saving some "Chromable" (dent free), staggered bolt, 265 Chevrolet script VC's with the idea of building a sleeper 302 with...............................
    DSCF1108.JPG
     
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  28. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,982

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    I’ve never been a nova guy but if I was the ot 67 350hp would be the one I’d have! Yes I know it’s OT. Now back to our regular schedule H.A.M.B. OT 350 crate engine converted to a H.A.M.B. friendly early sbc engine.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,259

    Budget36
    Member


    Maybe, just maybe..327's are not flowing down the streets of Tokyo,

    Maybe, just maybe the cost to rebuild and machine a block, far out weighs the cost of having a fresh block sent.

    Did you notice he wanted it in a Model A?

    I know you may be a SBC expert who can tell what's under the heads via borexstroke on any engine you see, but the rest of the crowd won't know and the OP saved (my guess) an boat load of money.

    Or are you inferring he should go broke overseas to build a 283/327? Would that make Lippy happy?
     
  30. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,259

    Budget36
    Member


    Thing is Jimmy, just my wild guess, and many can probably agree, he's building it himself to enjoy, not sell.

    Heck, I've a vehicle that will stay with me till I die, kids can do what they want with it...I don't care. I've way over spent on it, I love it, you and all your friends/businessmen you know with with a trailer full of money, can't buy it from me.

    Think I'm talking out my ear? Well, I lost my house to foreclosure, selling said vehicle may have eased the pain, may not. Hey, don't have the place anymore, but have the vehicle.

    So question back to you is do you build to enjoy, or resell? Are you the type of person that puts ANYTHING together to make a buck on the backend, or ? I/e, build a trailer to haul brush off with...Kill a weekend doing it, you figuring in the cost to sell it when done with it?

    Sure, most want to come out ahead, but others just enjoy the ride.
     
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