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Technical Lay back your roadster windshield, NOT that simple...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SDS, Oct 31, 2021.

  1. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This morning, I set our to lay back my 32 roadster windshield by 2". Some of you may have seen my build thread, but in case not, it's a Brookville body with a Stainless windshield frame/stanchions (that I got from a fellow HAMBer).

    First of all, the lower stanchions didn't exactly fit well from the get-go in the stock location (I've attached photos along the way here to illustrate).
    STOCK angle 2.jpg ORIGINAL FIT.jpg ORIGINAL FIT (2).jpg

    As suggested by fellow HAMBers, I elongated the bottom hole to lay the windshield back. I did all of the work with a medium rat-tail file. which took approximately 5 minutes per side. I'm sure glad I got my Brookville body primed before they delivered it, that way all the body filler is covered...that's right, body filler. As you can see in the photos, my NEW Brookville body has a significant amount of body filler in it around the lower stanchion area!
    BONDO !.jpg

    As the holes were elongated, I trial fit the stanchion assembly and measured from the top to the clip the holds the top on for reference until I achieved 2". That's when the problems started to emerge.
    ELONGATED.jpg BOTH ANGLES.jpg

    First, the "nub" on the stanchion which used to line up with the raised bead under the windshield is not horribly misaligned. In addition, that portion of the lower stanchion rode up on the ends of the bead and created a large gap between the stanchion's "flange" and the body. Not sure how I am going to deal with this, but I can now see why guys covet bronze lower stanchions - not much i can do with these stainless units, except grind A LOT away, or modify the cowl where they contact it.
    STANCHION MISMATCH.jpg STANCHION MISMATCH (2).jpg STANCHION MISMATCH (3).jpg

    Second, and the most significant problem, is that the curvature of the bottom of the windshield frame and that of the "bead" on the top of the cowl where the windshield meets it is very uneven and looks ugly - the window seal hides the now varying gap, but there seems to be no remedy for this (without a MAJOR amount of body re-work) that I'm willing to do.
    COWL MISTMATCH.jpg COWL MISTMATCH (2).jpg

    Thinking I may tuck my tail and retreat back to the original location.
    2_IN ANGLE.jpg LAID BACK.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  2. no photo's. HRP
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 18,052

    alchemy
    Member

    You are taking curvey parts, and sliding them to a new position on a curvey body, and you expected all the curves would line up?

    I'd think the stainless stantions would be a benefit as you can grind, or even weld to the bottom sides, and then sand and repolish them. No high cost chroming needed.

    I'd really recommend you make all the mods to the windshield parts instead of the body itself. If you ever want to change to a stock "upright" windshield it's just a couple bolts and some replacement parts. No bodywork and paint needed.
     
    teach'm, Johnny Gee, Tman and 5 others like this.
  4. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hear you on all accounts....

    Lots of guys on here laid theirs back, recommended doing so, but didn't mention any of these issues....so I didn't use brain power, just went for it and am not happy with the results (laid back looks good, but close up, the details looks like crap)

    Welding and filling stainless isn't that simple either - I have no idea what alloy it is and the chances of a material mismatch are pretty high. Even if I could get the material right, there will be a definite line where the old SS ends and new SS starts - different colors for sure.
    Anyone still make bronze posts?

    Even if I filled and ground and matched the posts to the body, the body line where the WS frame meets that bead across the cowl will still look like hell. I'd have to ether majorly rework that OR move the whole frame forward to try to get in somewhat covered evenly - and at that it would always look off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021

  5. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,556

    oldsman41
    Member

    Man I like the look but not the way the hardware has to look to get it.
     
  6. Anderson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2003
    Posts: 6,837

    Anderson
    Member

    Well, yeah. Looks awful too when they’re leaned back that much.
     
  7. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 6,544

    A Boner
    Member

    Don’t lay it back quite that much. Gauge the amount of lay back by the windshield gasket fit on the cowl. Don’t have to get the gasket to fit perfect, just go for “that doesn’t look too bad”, with it there!
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 18,052

    alchemy
    Member

    Now that your pics are showing, I'd recommend scooting the whole thing forward, not just the bottom corners. That might help cover the lip under the center better. Will probably require welding up the oblong side of the body holes when done.

    Also for color difference on the different alloy of stainless weld, I would say if you try to keep your weld on the backside of the stantions, the only spot you should see any color is the very edge. And the rubber gasket will help disguise most of that.
     
    Tman likes this.
  9. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 6,544

    A Boner
    Member

    On a 32, I actually like it when the stanchions are painted body color. If the welding doesn’t match, that could be a fix!
     
    da34guy likes this.
  10. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,296

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks to me like you've gone about this wrongly. I can't see you can get major leanback with rotation of the stanchions/ bases that much. A little, sure, but the majority of the lean comes from renotching the base so that the upright rotates rearward on the base. This causes the stanchion and upright to not be in alignment, but that the price you pay. The Rodwell leaned back screens have totally reworked (redesigned and recast, obviously styled on the originals) stanchions, along with the curved screen. I think you've said previously that you had a Rodwell screen which made me scratch my head (as you haven't, well not in the sense of the Wanlass designed screens, made by Dick Rodwell) but then I recalled that Dick also sells chopped posts / uprights, for use with stock stanchions and chopped, stock screens. I'm wondering whether you've got yourself confused with the Rodwell stuff which would explain where you've got to? A 3" chop with some lean back looks great and was good for me at 6'3" but I was sitting almost on the floor!
    Chris
     
  11. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No, I haven't had any rodwell stuff
     
  12. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I loosened up the bolts and push the windshield stanchions back into their stock position. I then pulled them back little by little until I got a noticeable result, without deviating from the "triangular hump strip" feature on top of the cowl that is supposed to sit underneath the windshield frame. The most it seems you can go is close to an inch laid back at the top without the bottom edge of the windshield getting crazy along that feature on the cowl.

    Question: In the stock position, is the rubber strip underneath the windshield frame supposed to lay on the front of that feature, directly on top of it, or behind it?
     
  13. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 18,052

    alchemy
    Member

    Gasket lays on the front of the bead.
     
    Tman and lurker mick like this.
  14. KevKo
    Joined: Jun 25, 2009
    Posts: 786

    KevKo
    Member
    from Motown

    If it was easy, everyone would do it. Then it wouldn't be special.
     
    kidcampbell71 and Tman like this.
  15. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,024

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    When you are dealing with compound curves, the shape of the cowl top, the cowl taper and the stanchion itself, the slightest move changes everything. I don't like the Wanlass stanchions, I think they are laid back a bit too much, but if you really want to lay back your stanchions you might need to cast your own bottoms in brass. You might be able to sell a few if you fabricate your own.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  16. You will have to cut, grind, weld and tweak those bases to get them to fit. It is called hot rodding. When I laid the posts back on my T I also elongated the lower holes. Plus, the posts are pie cut at the very bottom to lay back more.
     
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  17. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,296

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Apologies, have gotten you confused with someone else!

    Chris
     
  18. NJ Don
    Joined: Dec 25, 2019
    Posts: 119

    NJ Don
    Member

    Modifying the stanchions won't help with Scott's problem regarding the bump under the windshield on the cowl.
    My glass body didn't have the pronounced bulge that the Brookfield has and the gasket just made contact with the top of the bulge. 1" lay back might be the limit on a Brookfield body.
     
  19. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah, what Don said.
    I'm well aware that I can cut and grind and reshape the stanchions or try to find some bronze ones or even cast my own... But that's easy compared to fixing that bead on the top of the cowl. I'm not willing to go that far backwards to go forward if you know what I mean (I want to be driving this thing in the spring).

    I put the windshield posts back to their stock locations and I'm going to fill in the portion of the hole that I elongated with kneadable epoxy (Brookville put Bondo between the layers of metal, so it's not really going to want to weld). I thought it looked great in the stock location anyhow, so I'm going to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
    pprather likes this.
  20. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,650

    -Brent-
    Member

    If you can't shape them to conform, get yourself some putty. Put it under either stantion and remount them. Remove the excess and let the putty dry. Then, make yourself a spacer/gasket out of whatever material you like. A local guy made some for his late 40's hot rod roadster with leather.

    When I was building my early era roadster I was really interested in how they made those gaps and such work. I loved chopped and leaned stanchions. To my surprise, they didn't. Remember, there wasn't close-ups or zoomable images back then. Many just leaned them back and ran them. We've gotten so interested in chasing perfection that we forget these predecessors were sometimes very crude close up.

    Anyway, that saddle/ball glove leather the guy used was dyed black and then treated with a heavy application of bee's wax.

    My point is, you can make something to take up the gap. Or (because of that mismatch) you can modify the stanchion however you see fit, that's the nature of this game. Sometimes I look around my coupe, at one specific area, and I think of all the little things that needed to be done that most won't ever know about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
  21. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is like ground hog day...
    I can reshape them to fit, that's not a problem. The mismatch between the cowl bead and the bottom edge of the windshield looks horrible (see my photos). I am by no means going for perfection - I just can't have it looking like dog doodie.
    I do like the idea to use black dyed leather under the posts, but even if they are thoroughly coated with beeswax, I would be worried that they would soak up and retain water.
     
  22. KevKo
    Joined: Jun 25, 2009
    Posts: 786

    KevKo
    Member
    from Motown

    The Wanlass windshield is curved for that very reason, to fit the cowl bead. You'd have to cut it out and make one to fit the flat windshield. Lots of work.
     
  23. dirt car
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 472

    dirt car
    Member
    from nebraska

    As previous comments, the gap at the posts could possibly be reshaped with some creative hammer dolly, grinding & polishing afterwards, of course only after carefully looking at available material to achieve a satisfactory out come, a rather complex number of angles all converging together. The mention of casting a transition pad could possibly be done using a block of plastic or firm rubber much like a rear over the axle bump stop, ck. with the local plastic supply sources. As for the center area from post to post, a close look at various weather strip & gasket sources is probably the only option.
     
  24. Dirk35
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 2,056

    Dirk35
    Member

    Just an idea...
    With the shape of the bottom of those mounts and how they attach at that body line, would it be easier to mount them back in their original position (fill the elongated holes back in), then slice the cowl at the bottom/back of the reveal line, and lean the cowl back (down into the body)? To get a 2 inch lean back at the top of the windshield, you would probably only have to lean that lip about 1/16th of an inch back(down into the cowl). That would eliminate needing to try to blend the weld on the stainless. Just a tiny bit of lean-back of that body line would move the top of the windshield back a lot.

    ELONGATED.jpg COWL MISTMATCH (2).jpg
     
    '40 Coupe Fan and pprather like this.
  25. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 2,374

    wheeldog57
    Member

    Jeez, just when you thought you were going to be "too cool for school". I was going to suggest pie cutting the lower stanchions but that would be alot of work too. Like you said earlier, every inch you lean back, more problems arise. On my 29 I learned this the hard way. The bottom edge of windshield frame looks a little guffey where the rubber strip drapes on the cowl. The price we pay to look cool. . . .
     
  26. As I mentioned, I did that on my touring. This angle makes them look more exaggerated than the pie cut really was.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  27. SDS
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 419

    SDS
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    THIS is the solution, the right way to do it, but also very laborious and somewhat risky.
    I want to drive this car as soon as the snow clears in late April, hacking into a brand new Brookville body is not in the cards...maybe a future project (after my other 2 project cars are finished). I actually was quite happy with it in its' stock location - almost didn't slot the holes in the first place.
     
  28. NJ Don
    Joined: Dec 25, 2019
    Posts: 119

    NJ Don
    Member

    There you go ... now move on!
     
    SDS and pprather like this.
  29. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,911

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    A little out in left field, but when I bought my Zipper, Darrel offered a different set of windshield posts if I wanted the laid back look. These are the standard posts
    8CBC2FEB-5B4C-4498-B4E5-B3F9DBFEA70E.jpeg
     
    jnaki likes this.

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