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Late entry for tech week: sbc in a 49-54 chevy.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by DIRTYT, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    I allways see so many questions about this swap so i thought i would put out some info on how i did mine. Im sure some things will change for 53 and 54 cars since the steering is diffrent. On my car im running a 1985 305 with a th350 in a 1950 2 door sedan.

    Mounts: A few diffrent companys make these mounts. speedway, chassis eng. ect. i used speedway upper mounts and made my own lower frame mounts out of 3/16 steel plate.

    exhuast manifolds: passanger side u can use what ever u can find. im running a 76 elcamino. Driver side it gets tricky. i have about 4 manifolds in my garage now from buying ones that people said would work but didnt. The only one that i know of that will work is early 80s 267 small blocks. u can find these in midsize gm cars of the day. i payed 20 bucks for mine at junk yard.

    Firewall: u have to cut the ribs but not completly off. i got kinda fancy on mine and left the tops and kinda contoured them for the valve covers. The ebrake system has to be cut out to clear the exhuast manifold.

    Trans crossmember/Trans tunnel: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CUT THE TRANS TUNNEL!!! ive heard people saying they have to cut it. but thats cause they got lazy. They make a dropcross member section. This way u get two things. a removeble section of cross member and a droped mounting area. they can be either weld in or bolt in. weld in you would of course not be able to pull the section out to change the trans. I dont have any pics of mine but maybe some one else will. u can make your own very easy. looks like this --\__/--

    Radiator/Hoses: The stock radiator works great for this. i cruise mine in traffic on 96 degree days and have never over heated. You want to use a mopar style t-stat housing that goes straight up and down. and 66 chevelle hoses work great with a little trimming.

    Waterpump/pulleys: a short water pump is a must. u can use this with your later model balancer/crank pulley. a stock fan will work. i used a stovebolt fan with the holes oblonged cause i wanted that older look. but i would suggest a flex fan since i had to tweek the blades some what and im getting some vibration from it now.

    Drive shaft/Rear axle: This is a whole other deal in its self but ill touch on it a bit. Rear ends that will fit: 67-81 camaro/firebird (f-body car)
    55-57 chevy,olds, pontiac. (must relocated locater pin holes on these. one inch out and 2 inches up.
    78-88 G body cars (if doing a 4 link style suspension since these were coil spring cars.
    pre 93 4x4 s-10's and blazer.
    1958-64 impala,biscaynes i used a 60 biscayne on my car but i have a 3 link and bags. cause again these cars are coil spring.


    From backing plate to backing plate the stock rear axle is 54" wide.
    Drive shafts you have a few choices. a short tail shaft trans works well with a 68-69 4 door chevelle shaft. while a long tail shaft trans work well with a reg cab reg bed 2wd s-10 shaft. no cutting needed and napa makes combination joints to mount these to just about any pinion. and can look it up per application. my cost on the joint was around 30 bucks.

    I tried to touch on some questions that i see come up time and again. but if any one have any thing to add to this please do so. I tend to forget some things and minor details. im sure fathack will pipe in with some of the details i left out oor got wrong. since he was right there with me doing my swap. ill include the few pics i have of my motor in my car.

    Bryan
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    Excellent post, Bud!!!:cool:


    (Even though three days from now, five people will ask "can I put a V8 in a 50 Chevy?":D )

    It's way easy...and the pics show the stock exhaust manifolds you need.

    Buy upper and lower radiator hoses for a 66 Chevelle 327 with standard cooling as mentioned and they'll be right with just very minor trimming. As swaps go, this one is very simple...almost self-explanatory.

    As a side note, the smaller Metric three speed automatics will fit in the trans tunnel on the stock crossmember with no trans mount, but if you ever had to change the tranny, you'd need to pull the motor or cut the stock crossmember.

    Any leaf spring open drive rear axle you swap in will need the locating holes redrilled, as the stock springs have the pins offset to accomodate the pivot mount for the closed drive axle. It's 2" offset.

    Tech-O-Matic post for sure here!
     
  3. Maybe I will add some of my posted pics and mods and mistakes I have made on my 64 Vette 327, M21, in my 54.

    Geno
     
  4. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,245

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    If that L exhaust manifold goes straight down between the 5 and 7 plug AND has 2 studs for the flange it would most likely be PN 14014500 or 14033037.

    These were the low performance manifolds used on many 80's Camaros and other models. I'm not convinced it was JUST on 267's either.
    Easy to find...I have 1 on my Land Cruiser for steering shaft clearance, a spare and also gave one up to a friend! Picked them up for free!

    (There is also a big Chev manifold that has a similar configuration but sweeps slightly back between 5 and 7 and has 3 studs. I have no idea if that would work on an early Chev however.)

    I just did an S10 4x4 V8 conversion and used those style manifolds (L same layout as a Camaro, but big Chev "3 stud" and R from a Camaro) and they worked great. Loads of room compared to normal manifolds but still a little tight on the S10 Left side. (L from a Camaro MIGHT have been slightly better due to only 2 studs but we liked the slight rear sweep on the 3 studder...)

    I can't imagine a stock manifold that could give more room in a tight conversion.

    Can you verify either of those part numbers (or post yours if different) to make the search easier for anyone doing the early Chev conversion?
     

  5. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    i can go out in the morning and look for a part number on it. but you descriped mine to a T it has two studs and goes straight down between 5 and 7
     
  6. Good to know these things.

    If I change mine and can't find a decent 261, I'd go to either the Pontiac 400 or the Cad 425, both good and sitting around, maybe a 200R4 behind them. Could go with a 389/hydro too. Looks like the same fun fitting exhaust manifolds, but I think what I'd try and see on the Pontiac motor is if a late 70's 301 would work, out of a Pontiac motor like '78 Gran Prix. On the bright side there, about any D-port Pontiac fits them, I picked up some headers cheap a while back and checked them against a '57 347 head and they fit.


    Any reason you can't make perches to use a coil rear on the stock leaf springs?
     
  7. Aaron51chevy
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 1,985

    Aaron51chevy
    Member

    Cool post Brian, Once I'm ready to swap out mine I'll be giving you a call to help out:D .
     
  8. paintslinger
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 39

    paintslinger
    Member
    from Kemah, Tx

  9. colorado51
    Joined: Feb 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,577

    colorado51
    Member

    Great post Bryan!

    Here are a few more things I can add that I did on my 51:

    Trans cross member:

    I used my stock cross member and just welded a channel for the new trans to bold to. (FYI, trans is a Borg Warner ST-10 4-speed)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Rear end:

    70-81 Camaro/Firebird is probably the best swap because they are easy to find, and the spring perches are the correct width for the stock springs.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Keep in mind, if you are running the stock rear springs and a V8 (w/open driveline), you should run traction bars. Without the old torque tube, the stock rear springs will really twist around.

    Radiator:

    You can run a long pump, but you will need to mount the radiator in front of the radiator support.

    Radiator mounted in front of the support:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. colorado51
    Joined: Feb 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,577

    colorado51
    Member

    BTTT because these questions get asked A LOT!
     
  11. Rhino
    Joined: Sep 13, 2003
    Posts: 106

    Rhino
    Member
    from ST. Louis

    could use the part number!

    The one I got sounds different, it has 3 studs, from a 86 chevy pickup with a 305. Might work with some fancy bending.

    This could not have come at a better time, we just set engine monday night.
    Pictures were taken with the wheels turned full left.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    yea i have on of those in the garage as well that i tried to make work... they wont work! i forgot all about those part numbers but the ones hackerbill listed should be right. or just go to the yard and look it up per application.
     
  13. Rhino
    Joined: Sep 13, 2003
    Posts: 106

    Rhino
    Member
    from ST. Louis

    I found these on ebay, sounds like what you have, uses 2 studs. It looks dam close to what I had in the picture except for the extra stud.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ategory=33632&item=7964358283&sspagename=WD1V
     

    Attached Files:

  14. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    thats the one! they come with or with out all the emmisions crap on it. that one looks like it might be a emssions one. works the same either way.
     
  15. Rhino
    Joined: Sep 13, 2003
    Posts: 106

    Rhino
    Member
    from ST. Louis

    Here is this list of cars it applys too, he can now add chevys 49-54 with stock steering and v8 conversion to the list!


    This exhaust manifold fits the following specific years and GM models
    with the 267ci 4.4L, 305ci 5.0L, and 350ci 5.7L engines:

    1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986

    Buick:
    80 Century (305 eng)
    82 Electra (267 eng)
    82 Lesabre (267 eng)
    82 Park Ave (267 eng)
    80-86 Regal (305 eng)
    81-82 Regal (267 eng)

    Chevrolet:
    80 Camaro (305 eng) (with 2 stud exhaust pipe flange)
    81 Camaro (267, 305, & 350 engs)
    80 Caprice (350 eng) (gas model)
    80-82 Caprice (267 eng)
    80-86 Caprice (305 eng)
    80-82 El Camino (267 eng)
    80-86 El Camino (305 eng)
    80 Impala (350 eng) (gas model)
    80-82 Impala (267 eng)
    80-85 Impala (305 eng)
    80-82 Malibu (267 eng)
    80-86 Malibu (305 eng)
    80-82 Monte Carlo (267 eng)
    80-86 Monte Carlo, SS (305 eng)

    GMC:
    80-82 Sprint (267 eng)
    80-86 Sprint (305 eng)

    Oldsmobile:
    80-86 Cutlass (305 eng)
    81-82 Cutlass (267 eng)

    Pontiac:
    83-86 Bonneville (305 eng)
    81 Catalina (305 eng)
    80 Firebird, Trans Am (305 eng) (with 2 stud exhaust pipe flange)
    81 Firebird, Trans Am (305 eng)
    80 Grand Prix (305 eng)
    81-82 Grand Prix (267 eng)
    83-86 Grand Prix (305 eng)
    80 Lemans (305 eng)
    81 Lemans (267 eng)
    81-82 Parisienne (267 eng)
    81-86 Parisienne (305 eng)
     
  16. Rhino
    Joined: Sep 13, 2003
    Posts: 106

    Rhino
    Member
    from ST. Louis

    Was the exhaust pipe for your manafold run toward the firewall ebrake area
    ( if so did you cut body support area?) or toward the block in front of oil filter, then down?
     
  17. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    yea i had to cut that body support out. just on the driver side... but my exhuast just dumps behind the front wheels. but they ran its towards the firewall in a hurry. ihave my motor preety far up so the on exhuast stud just misses the pitman arm. i had a preety good exhuast shop do that for me but it works sweet!

    allso i was in the garage today looking at the 90 camaro in there and it has the same manifold as well.. so add that to the list.. its a 1990 rs with a 305 im sure other years fit as well. but these ones have the A.I.R.
     
  18. 54BOMB
    Joined: Oct 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,102

    54BOMB
    Member

    I used the sanderson headers on mine, then I ordered in 4 "j" bends in 2 1/4 pipe from summit. so I could cut and weld them into a custom shape. I had the passenger side go straight down and back, then the drivers side comes down and over in the front of the oil pan sump and back, then into a "Y" 2-1 collector. then using a V band clamp set up, went 3 inch single pipe all the way back to dump out right before the rear end, with the muffler at the end of the pipe, a 3 inch dynomax unit. Ill try to get some pics as soon as I can.
     
  19. I put a 406, 4 speed in my 50 chevy. The 49-50 chevs had a non-removable tranny crossmember while the later ones had a removable member...I just drillled new mount holes in my stock 50 crossmember and used a Camaro 2-bolt tranny mount...slid the motor and tranny in the car together thinking I'd never need to remove the tranny..
    Had to remove the tranny to replace reverse idler after about a year and a half and I was actually able to get the tranny out by removing the floor hump cover and "screwing" the tranny up out of the hole vertically. It took some time to figure out but it was a challenge I couldn't pass up.
    I used the original 216 side mount brackets and cut and changed them to accept the 70 Pickup style thru-bolt mounts. If I gotta do it again, I'd start from scratch for these brackets.
    I used the long water pump and modified the stock core support to accept a 55-59 chevy pickup aftermarket radiator, mounted in front of the support.
    For a driver's side manifold, I used a 67-72 chevy pickup "twisted ramshorn" and ground it to help clear the original [53-54] pitman arm, which it didn't. So I ground all I dared from the pitman arm and they still touched on a sharp left turn.....another thing I wouldn't do if building another chevy...
     
  20. Short Bull
    Joined: Mar 20, 2005
    Posts: 299

    Short Bull
    Member

    Very much appreciated...
     
  21. Rhino
    Joined: Sep 13, 2003
    Posts: 106

    Rhino
    Member
    from ST. Louis




    I have one of these also for the drivers side, I read a post some time past where where the rear of manafold was cut ( like a slice of pie), then bent in, and welded back up with a nickle rod. I wonder how it held up?

    Im planning on useing ramhorn (centerdump) on pass side, would have been nice for drivers too! Here are some other manafolds of intrest that might fit.

    The pitman arm and the nut on steering box is a problem area! I wonder if anyone has spaced the steering gear box off the frame 1/4" or so, to pickup more clearance?


    [​IMG]
     
  22. saturnrobb
    Joined: Dec 14, 2011
    Posts: 3

    saturnrobb
    Member

    I am planning on converting to power steering. Does anyone know if the power steering box and pitman are the same size as manual? All the previous threads that mentioned "...will fit stock" does that include power steering as well?
     
  23. saturnrobb
    Joined: Dec 14, 2011
    Posts: 3

    saturnrobb
    Member

    I have a set of vortec heads. Does anyone now if there is enough clearance for 96-00 chevy truck manifolds? cast #s 12554973 R and 12554974 L

    [​IMG]
     
  24. dgc15
    Joined: Aug 23, 2007
    Posts: 140

    dgc15
    Member

    What power steering box are you going to use? Here's a picture of mine. I am just finishing it up now.
     

    Attached Files:

  25. fastcar1953
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,310

    fastcar1953
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    just curios does steering box laid on its side get lubricated enough?
     
  26. The cheap route to do power steering is to round up an Astro van reverse box and make a bracket to mount it to run the stock pitman arm. In fact, someone makes a bracket you can buy aftermarket, but one guy who used one said it sucked and used it as a pattern to make his own instead. 53-54 could be had with power steering, but it's fairly scarce and tends to be expensive.

    The truck manifolds in the picture will fit, you will have to cut most of the firewall braces out to run them, the left will be tight on the column but should clear; the problem with those style is the motor has to be mounted level for them to clear the pitman arm and I found with mine, with a 700R4, if I raise the motor that high it's literally touching the trans tunnel in a couple places.


    Right now I have a set of '86 Camaro manifolds on my car. These manifolds come up and cross over the exhaust ports, so the pitman arm clearance is no problem. They will need custom pipes made though - I took the stock Camaro Y pipe and cut it up and reversed the left pipe, and it almost clears the steering when turned to the left - if it had a bend about 20-30 degrees right off the outlet, it would clear. They also have AIR tubes to cut off. On the right, I have to make some changes as the outlet is right on top of the starter, too, at the least the wiring to it needs to be rerouted and a heat shield moved or modified. They do seem to not need a donut on the bottom, which is a plus.

    I want to try a set though like I found on an '88 Caprice (I think Malibu and Monte Carlo also used them). They're similar, but where the Camaro outlet on the left bows out about an inch, then curves back in a bit at the base, this one just dumps straight down. Depending on how much closer to the block they are there's a shot that it's the right angle to clear through everything without a lot of crazy bends - the interference on the Camaro isn't that much, if I wanted to be lazy I could probably hammer a dent into the pipe that would make it work.
     
  27. aldixie
    Joined: May 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,634

    aldixie
    Member

    What model Radiator did you use. I know this is an old post but I'm looking at doing the same thing.

    Thanks,

    Alex
     

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