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Laquer paint

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flatford39, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,442

    flatford39
    Member

  2. ground pounder
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 71

    ground pounder
    Member
    from ontario

    spray'd an rub out lots of it......was poison'd by it too back in the 80's...still have a cabinet full enough for flames an mess'n around with
     
  3. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,435

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

  4. Ogri
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 9

    Ogri
    Member
    from NW Georgia

    If it's laquer you want, I know of a distributor that still carries PPG Duracryl. He caters to the hotrod crowd.

    Do you really want nitrocellulose or do you want acrylic?
     
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  5. davis574ord
    Joined: May 21, 2009
    Posts: 786

    davis574ord
    Member

    I learned how to paint with it also learned how to blend with it i just wish that it would last longer cause it was bitchen to spray!
     
  6. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,442

    flatford39
    Member

    Acrylic is fine. Can you please send the link.

    Thank you,

    Tom
     
  7. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,695

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    I know you said you used to use lacquer, but do you know the difference between nitrocellulose and acrylic? Nitro is the real old type, and tends to look much better, more depth, better color, but tends to get brittle faster, and spiderweb, and crack on you. also it's a bit harder to sand and buff, as it clogs the paper quickly (put soap and a cup of Kerosene in the wetsanding water bucket to help this problem).
    The black nitro especially looks great!
    But if utility is what you want, use the modern lacquer, still available in specialty shops.
     
  8. customcory
    Joined: Apr 25, 2007
    Posts: 1,832

    customcory
    Member

    That nitro lacquer is hard to buff. I actually used some of Hirsch paint too. I like acrylic lacquer better.:D
     
  9. I been buying my laquer at NAPA but his price is better. I need a gallon of black to finish the the scheme on an old coupe I've been working on I think I'll give iot a whirl. I mean hell laquer is laquer.
     
  10. I'm a "Lacquer" guy too. About the best price you're going to get on acrylic (which is the best) is from http://www.tcpglobal.com. I've checked ALL over on acrylic lacquer prices, and the price at http://www.paintforcars.com/acrylic_lacquer_paint.html at first glance seems to be better. However, their lacquer needs to get cut at 2 parts lacquer (2:1) to one part thinner. The Global lacquer is a 1:1 mix, so the price winds up being better. Stick with acrylic lacquer...when push comes to shove, for the once-in-a-while paint job, it's the way to go. If you want anything better, farm it out to a proffesional paint shop. Whizz-bang paint systems are not for the guy that does an occasional driveway job. But if you've got the time to massage the paint after it's dry, an idiot proof lacquer job is the only way to go...ask me how I know...:D Did this one in the driveway, and the next day wet sanded /HAND rubbed it out in less than a day...
     

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  11. sincew everyone is on a paint kick lately I searched and found those two companies as well. TPC even does a good red oxide primer.

    And what kinda fumes does the TPC stuff give off? Haven't been around anything like this in 15 years to remember! DOH!
     
  12. Ed ke6bnl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2001
    Posts: 181

    Ed ke6bnl
    Member

    it seems that a lot of the color in paints are not available in lacguer and they just forward you to the acrylic enamel. but a chasis black was $109.95 for a gallon of color and a gallon of thinner. plus strainers and sticks. thanks for the site info ED
     
  13. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member

    used to spray alot of belco nitro lacquer years ago. the stuff looks great , but as the others say, acrylic is way more durable.

    i recall glasurit nitro would buff real nice, even if you didnt colorsand it, the pad would mow down the imperfectons.



    skull
     
  14. I am just deliberating here. Have sprayed enough singlesatge urethane to know how well I like it, color,durability etc.

    But, building a 50s looking car, with red oxide primer and black laquer over it will age more gracefully I think. Patina without being forced.

    Plus, the shop is attached so even with my portable booth (downdraft) I am looking at the nasty isocyanates in SS. On a fence here.
     
  15. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    Lacquer, by its' nature ,contains acetone,benzene, ketone, toluene & xylene. The last two, are very slow evaporating solvents, and probably will linger the longest until airflow/oxygen dissapate them from the area.
    All of these solvents are known or suspected carcinogens.

    As with all paint materials, at all times, you should take every precaution against contact with fumes, direct contact with skin & eyes from solvent or any paint material, and especially watch out for sparks or open flames in the work area. All of these solvents are as flammable as gasoline and in enclosed spaces can present some serious problems in a New York minute!
    I was once told by an old painter " if you survive a spray booth fire, you'll probably wish you hadn't"!

    FWIW, none of the chemies contained in syntehtic/acrylic enamel, epoxy,polyurethane, or acrylic urethanes are powdered tofu in "Mountain Fresh" water, either! All of these chemicals, if taken internally will over time, cause serious health problems.

    " Viva la lacquer revival "
     
  16. Yup, preaching to the choir here.

    ANY paint is a chemical, I understand that. But the SS urethanes I have sprayed are kinda more serious in some ways. Oncea again, downdraft, with a propor respirator and suit. may even buy a fresh air hood
     
  17. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    2nd hand info ,Bill Hirsch is the guy to deal with .Heard that from my dad ,Im an Enamel kind of guy ,Work with what you know .Its ok to try new things as Dr Phil would say ,But he never built a streetrod and painted it himself . When I switched to an hlvp gun for the first time ,The paint job came out fine ,But I think it would of been better with my regular gun ,Practice and feel is key when it comes to painting ,
     
  18. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,442

    flatford39
    Member

    Some great info here. Thanks to all who chimed in.
     
  19. Ok rather that start a new thread if no one minds I would like to hijack this one. If you have a real problem with it probably best to shoot me a PM and not bother the boss with drama.

    Anyway I have always shot laquer or any paint for that matter with a suction feed cup. My new setup is low pressure gravity feed. Anyone shot laquer with the newer setup? is there something I need to watch out for?

    Thanks fellas.
     
  20. willysguy
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 1,202

    willysguy
    Member
    from Canada

    I used to like lacquer for ease of spraying, touch ups, and buffing. I agree with Tman a nice acrylic lacquer job buffed out and left to age might be the ticket on my 32.
     
  21. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,303

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Hope this is ok here. I have 2 gallons of Hirsch nitro lacquer and 4 gallons of slow thinner, all brand new and sealed in the factory cans, sitting in my shop if anyone wants it. I'd sell for a bunch less $$ than whatever the stuff goes for. PM me if interested.

    I LOVE lacquer.....I love the way it goes on, the way it buffs out, the way it looks when done. But it's a fairly high maintenence paint job when all's said and done. Definately not for a daily driver-type vehicle compared to modern paint. Got to work at it to keep it looking good. But when it's looking good.....WoW!
     
  22. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,442

    flatford39
    Member

    Great question... I am toying with the idea as well & would like some feed back. Can I save paint or is it more conducive with enamels.
     
  23. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,442

    flatford39
    Member

    What would be a good primer to use under a nitro lacquer job??? Would the acrylic primer work??

    Thanks in advance,

    Tom
     
  24. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    Just some thoughts I've stumbled over or had to learn the hard way about lacquer-

    I would never shoot a lacquer job over anything but a lacquer based undercoat. Today's epoxy and urethane primers dry and harden through a complex process of chemical reaction. Lacquer dries from the evaporation of thinner from the inside out with the last coat of finish basicly melting into the previous via the acetone mixed therein , and anchors itself to the nitrocellulose of acrylic binder in the previous coat. Like and kind chemicals
    /solvents anchoring to each other. If you introduce epoxy or urethane to the mix, you're no longer talking apples and apples, but apples and ball bearings!

    One of the biggest killers of a lacquer paint job was excessive thickness of undercoats/surfacers and puttys. The surfacers and puttys contained talc and clay, and don't expand or contract like the lacquer, and thus a crack developes.Too, excessive colour coats that weren't thinned enough to allow the last coat to properly melt into the previous one. If the proper amount of flash time isn't allowed for and thinner becomes trapped beneith the surface of the paint, that can cause other headaches! I usually shoot lacquer at 150-175 reduction with the last couple of coats in the 175 neighborhood with a retarder. This allows for maxium flow out and little need for major coloursanding and cutting. I usually would allow up to an hour between coats depending on shop temps.

    Whyle I've never shot a lacquer job with a " Perfume Duster " (HVLP) gun, I can't see why there would be a problem. Lacquers are thinned at around 150% and are thus pretty thin material, like today's base coats, unless you're shootin a heavy metalic or flake or another "glamior finish". I used a Binks Model 62 with 45 lbs. pressure at the gun with a six inch fan.

    Unlike today's "Black plastic deaf, dumb and blind" urethane finishes, lacquer does require maintenance. Never let a lacquer job dry out without several coats of good paste wax to seal them-preferably carnuba! Leave the "gee-wizz silcone and clay filler waxes to the guys polishing their plastic paint jobs! Avoid any sudden tempture changes to the paint job like direct sun followed by cold water, and avoid freezing weather if possible.

    Most of today's epoxy,acrylic and urethane paint jobs look like exactly what they are -plastic-, but only lacquer looks like lacquer!

    '' All to often, confidence is an artifact of ignorance ''
     
  25. Ob1
    Joined: Jan 21, 2010
    Posts: 411

    Ob1
    Member

    Wow, I feel bad now, I paint modern cars with modern paints for a living! Shot my first acrylic enamel the other day, loved it, gonna do my HOSrv with that stuff. Maybe one of these days I'll have an opportunity to play with lacquer...!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  26. Ogri
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 9

    Ogri
    Member
    from NW Georgia

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  27. GasserDave
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 132

    GasserDave
    Member
    from Sin City

    Nitroc was used by the factory way back. Its a good product as it flows really well. You can actually brush it and blow it out. It dries kind of rubbery at first then snaps really hard once it outgasses after a month or so. I sprayed alot of it as a kid. The price is right. Lacquer was great for production becasue you could paint 10 cars around the shop without overspray or cross contamination. If you screwed it up, scuff it and respray it...The hiro car from the 50's was restored with it. Its easy to use at home but will fade if left outside or spider web really bad....Good stuff. Id go for it......
     
  28. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,695

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Good info by "pimpin paint" as usual, but I've got to add...I painted a custom 53 Merc many years ago in black nitro. But I did the underbase in HOK epoxy primer, and the car still looks good 15 years or so later. And no shrinkage like using lacquer primer!!!!!
     
  29. Hey buddy
    Thanks for the info. You are absolutely right about the look fo laquer or even the older one shot enamel for that matter. The new paint just doesn't have the look for someone who grew up around the old stuff.

    I always shot laquer at about 80 PSi something an old timer told me to do when I was still not an old timer and wondered what I needed from the late model gun.

    I'll take your advice and owe you one.

    Thanks

     
  30. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

     

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