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Technical Ladder bars with Z frame?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Omarsvette, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Sometimes unsolicited opinions are offered in an attempt at preventing ,what the opinion giver perceives , as a major fuck up ,no harm , no foul . I really dont take things too seriously...
     
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  2. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Wow
     
  3. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 174

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    you may have scrub line issues... if you get a flat tire, you're gonna skid. I'm not judging, I just want to make sure you're aware. For your safety.
     
    Omarsvette likes this.
  4. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

  5. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    When I brought her Home.... 96B2B933-2291-465C-8C0A-866779D7C868.jpeg
     
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  6. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Where I’m at now.... 0BC5AE1E-855E-44FA-B1F2-E6EAB25DD21B.jpeg 2BA63591-CE10-4D37-9316-88639449B221.jpeg
     
    Jibs, Just Gary, Tim and 2 others like this.
  7. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,542

    AHotRod
    Member

    Omar .... I built my Coupe's chassis at 4"- 4-1/2" of ground clearance and also built my own design ladder style bar, which mounts to the inside of the main chassis rails, and are parallel to the ground.
    I designed everything to be above the frame rail, so nothing would scrape. Works great and rides good and handles like a go-kart.

    I dug up a picture of it if your interested.
    IMG_9322 (2).JPG


    IMG_20181003_182235.jpg
     
  8. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 449

    twenty8
    Member

    At the risk of getting slapped, I am going to have to point out your scrub line issues again. Looks like the frame will drag on the road if you get a flat. Very dangerous..............just trying to help.

    Otherwise, extremely cool...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
    loudbang and X38 like this.
  9. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 942

    Mimilan
    Member

    Hey Mate , forget all this "scrub line" Bull***t.
    All you have really done is increased squat by lowering the front pivot point. [but you also have lowered the CGH]

    No matter what shape your bar is [eg: "J" bars to go around something] it is actually an "imaginary" line between 2 points.
    one point is Axle centreline , and the other is the front pivot point.

    So forward thrust [from the axle centreline] will try to push the front pivot point downwards resulting in squat.
    Squat can be overcome with stiffer suspension.

    On a really low car be careful about adding too much "anti-squat" [raising the front pivot]
    If the front pivot is higher than the CGH it can cause "jacking" in the rear when accelerating .

    Build your car, make everything fit without interference and binding .....Then tune it with spring stiffness.

    In Road Racing we never even discuss "scrub line" [and our cars are really low]. All the sanctioning bodies require is the ability to tow the car off the track with 4 flat tyres [not scraping the ground]
    So just make sure your car isn't lower than the bottom edge of the rims
     
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  10. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,794

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    With what your trying to do and do it to such a low frame height it might be easier and better to run a short 4-link set up.

    Then you could move the bars close to the frame rails and when building floor pans build around the rails and bars at the same time while also giving you more and better options at suspension geometry.
     
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  11. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 629

    junkman8888
    Member

    In the immortal words of Yoda "Building a car that lays frame, you are?, "traditional", you are not".
     
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  12. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,852

    Fordors
    Member

    Forget the scrub line bullshit?
    Oddly your parting comment describes it perfectly.
     
  13. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,800

    panhead_pete
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    100%
     
    cretin likes this.
  14. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Built in the 50s and restored to its glory years..... FE40ECE5-376C-4311-8DA1-8819BDE0DCE8.jpeg B21754C3-15E4-45BA-B92B-D78D49809635.png
     
    AHotRod likes this.
  15. iagsxr
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 158

    iagsxr
    Member

    The ladder bars angled down like that are going to create squat under acceleration. As mentioned you could try to control that with stiffer springs. It's a light car so that may not be so bad.

    What would worry me more is the inverse, the rear is going to lift under deceleration. You could try to control that by adding rebound to the rear shocks. Here again it's a light car so the rear tires unloading on decel could be very bad.

    It's hard for me to visualize without actually standing there looking at it but I keep coming back to triangulated four link.
     
  16. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    I thought about 4 link and almost went for. Instead I used a straight crossmember so it leveled the ladder bars. But now they go into the flooring. But since the car will be low I had to bring the engine up higher and the the tranny adapter plate comes down lower also. So I have to build the floor up higher anyway.
     
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  17. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

  18. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

  19. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Those ladder bars are perfect. Love the idea
     
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  20. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,283

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    I was gonna remain silent but...

    Ladder bars don't cause squat when down.

    Axles rotate against the direction of roatation under load, light or heavy loads.

    Yes, scrub lines should be considered.

    Dependent upon intended use and ground clearance demands, locate as desired.

    Weight doesn't transfer, load does.

    Open to discuss in keeping with the "...helps others..." from the OP.

    I don't dislike the car totally but it's not built for me. We can discuss that if I ever ask you to build me one. So far so good from what I see. The basics never fail.
     
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  21. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,542

    AHotRod
    Member

    Hundred's of guys built low Hot Rods over the last 60+ years

    Elcoupe.jpg
     
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  22. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Right the east coast channel where in the weeds back in the day.
     
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  23. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,283

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Agreed, lots of low cars. Almost like the antithesist of the hiboy.

    The only tech advice I could add is that the desired ride hgt should be achieved "loaded." Pretty sure we all consider that, just shop talk...
     
  24. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Yeah, you mean with motor, body etc on the frame right?
     
  25. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

  26. Omarsvette
    Joined: Dec 7, 2013
    Posts: 557

    Omarsvette
    Member
    from Arizona

    Breaks are set up, so is the hydraulic clutch. Going to start on the flooring…
     
  27. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,542

    AHotRod
    Member

    I love it, it's looking like a real Hot Rod.
     
  28. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,935

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    2OLD2FAST and Blues4U like this.
  29. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,701

    6sally6
    Member

    ????........"com'on man!"???
    6sally6
     
  30. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,943

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    The "reverse stance", i.e. having the rear of the frame rails sitting lower than the front, just doesn't work aesthetically. Having a lowered hot rod is one thing, having the ass end sag is another.
     
    loudbang and 2OLD2FAST like this.

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