I've had this idea brewing for a while, and I want to float it here and see if anyone thinks it sounds good. I am interested in starting a hot rod/custom/lowrider co-op in L.A. I need a place to get into my 56 ford and 54 chevy projects and the steep echo park driveway just isn't going to cut it anymore. I have been looking semi-seriously for garage space for a while now and I need to find something by about April or May. Along the way I have gathered two friends that want to share rent so we could get something better and cheaper for the volume discount. When we pool our money it can be cheaper for each individually and in the higher rent bracket there are more places available. I started jokingly calling it the "custom co-op" but at some point I started seriously thinking about what a co-op is and how cool it would be with even more people. More people= more stability- if someone flakes there is a smaller percentage of rent to cover and its easier to pull in another member More people= more action- it would be great if there was always something going on. More people= less personal drama, everyone can gravitate toward the people they get along with best More people= more cool cars and projects So I am thinking I would love to get ten or so people together to rent garage space. If you go big enough then the rent around L.A. for industrial spaces drops to around .50 to .60 cents per s.f. per month. So a decent sized individual garage area could be $150 per month or under. That is real ballpark, but I'd like to keep it around there so that it is something like two days income per month for the average guy. As far as what and who it turns out to be- I would figure that it wouldn't be up to me so much and that the members would shape the membership as it goes along. What I hope it would be? Most important to me would be that everyone would be serious about putting in work. I know I will do my part but imagine how inspiring it would be to have ten projects moving along at the same time. That's what I want to be a part of. Basically a real-life HAMB with maybe a little less bullshit and more wrench turning. Anyway, I couldn't be the first person to think of this. Has anyone heard of this kind of thing before? If it doesn't work I'll just go it alone, but I will try to get this idea out there for a few months to see if it can work out. And most important, if anyone want to help get this together e-mail me and we'll talk about it. I figure the group would coalesce over the next few months and people would come and go until the lease is signed. Not everyone will hit it off so there will need to be some kind of natural vetting process to get a good mix. Tell your friends and give it some thought yourself. Location is important. For it to be worth setting up for me it needs to be within about fifteen or twenty minutes of downtown L.A. because I will be going there after work just about every day. I like East L.A. for the cheap rent and cool vibe, but I'd be open to other places as long as they aren't too far. You beach guys can start your own co-op down in irvine by the mall. I'm thinking BIG cheap urban space, secure roll up door, maybe a shop dog, whose gonna fuck with it? Anyway, here I am at [email protected] if anyone has advice/interest/ideas.
[ QUOTE ] I don't really want to be a smart ass but isn't that called a car club? [/ QUOTE ].,...........no car clubs just pose with their matching jackets and talk about what the are gonna do to their cars '' pay somebody else'' or what they did to their cars '' already paid someone else ''....... robert ,good idea ....i hope you get some takers...and it can work. my buds and i did it for a couple of years . and it worked out well for a long time .....but then all guys bought houses etc. and we all decided to let the shop go. but it was awesome.........man i dont think you guys would want to be around all my paint and crap ......
sounds like a solid idea, but be wise in who gets in. the last think you need to ppl messing with other peoples stuff. good luck
I think it's a good idea, and a year ago I would have signed up. I have a house in the south bay now, with a garage and a huge yeard. I looked for a long time for live/work space. I see a few potential problems, but nothing too bad. 1) Landlords aren't going to be all excited to rent to you. They seem to want to rent to businesses. However, you only need to find *one* landlord who is willing to do it. 2) Figure out how you're going to deal with utilities, and make sure the lease-holder isn't holding the bag at the end of the month. 3) Figure out how you're going to deal with security, and how "communal" tools are. Mine aren't, unless I know you *really* well. Go for it. I think it can work.
The only way to make it work for any amount of time is for one person to rent the space. That's what the land lord will require anyway since they just won't sign a lease with 15 different "Burger King employees" (that's how they will view the group) The one person leasing will have to have to prove they have or will have enough personal income to be able to afford the rent or the landlord won't run the risk of leasing and then maybe having to evict you. Then the person leasing the building can sub let parts of it, if that's allowed in the original lease. I'd suggest you put some fancy locks on the doors with number codes to get in and change them on the first of every month and give the new number out to only those people who have paid their sublet bill for that month. Otherwise you'll end up stuck with it. I won't even get into the security risks of having a dozen guys and maybe hundreds of their "friends" wandering in and out at all hours... The above is what happened and why there aren't (m)any "Hippie commune houses" around any more. Good luck if you actually try it. Id say you'll have your best luck with no more and no less than three guys who know each other well to begin with. three because with two you can't have a majority rule over any disagreements. Yes it could be sorta like a club. In which case you will want to get a profit or non-profit business license. and INSURANCE! Hope this was at least a little more helpful than the joke above...
My Bro-in-law did something similar in San Diego. To lessen the costs he also leased some space to a "air-bagger", a tattoo artist, turned a portion into a recording studio, and the rest is Car storage.
You have a great idea, and it would be very nice to have a extra set of hands when you get to a point where you need the assistance of others to help. Your big problem would be finding others you trust.It's no fun to lose a friendship because someone doesn't pay for their share of the bills. Getting to the shop and finding out someone fed your "shop dog" hamburger with glass in it, and cleaned out all your (and everyone elses) tools and cool parts could spell trouble also. when you get too many people in the mix, then you have people stopping by with friends, who brought friends, who told others to come by, and then you have people you don't know checking out all the goodies they can hawk for crack!! Please don't take this the wrong way. I don't enjoy shooting down someones ideas, and you have a good one. Just be sure you have all your bases covered. With the right group of people, you might even be able to take on a couple small jobs to cover some of the rent. Damn, I wish I still lived in L.A.
Sounds like you might have something there. I've been to several great "artist co-ops" that worked for sharing large work spaces. Customizers are artists, right? Sorta like the way various dudes like Jeffries, etc used to rent space from Barris back when. And like art co-ops, having all those minds around working together you start feeding/competing off others work/ideas and the juices really flow. I hate to say it tho - DrJ has a good point in that the one dude who signs the lease will be considered THE renter and all the rest will rent from him. So that one dude will need to prove his worthieness to the owner of the building. Unless...you find someplace that has been empty a long time and the owner is desparate for renters....?
Hmm.. get a big warehouse, everyone can weld up their own chain link fence "cages." hella ghetto but will keep people honest. Then ya can still throw "raves" to help wit the rent!!! Hey, if you think you might pull something together for that ~$150 a month, lemme know.... -J
Listen to the good doctor. He's right. It's a good idea but it amounts to opening a custom shop and renting shop space out. The landlord needs management skills and balls and will have to regulate from time to time. I sure wouldn't want the headache but if you could do it, it could end up really cool.
Try looking for an abandoned gas station with a lift. I remember seeing one on Beverly just east of Western. They're all over L.A. Sounds cool, good luck. -stick P.S. Are you the guy with the white Ranchero that Donnie painted?
All the comments are definitely appreciated. The "landlord" part of it is pretty well covered. I am luckily at a point in my life wher I can sign for a commercial lease. Of course there is a lot that can go wrong but in the last few years I've met a lot of responsible and mature guys (old and young) who just want to get down to building some cars. It isn't manhattan, but L.A. can be a tough area to find garage space attached to a house or appartment. Maybe there are others like me who need to live in an urban area (if you can L.A. that) but also want to have space for the car life. I don't want to move to the 909 but sometimes i'm jealous of all those midwestern and desert hambers with thier 40'x60' garages- you just don't get that in L.A. I guess I am just hoping there are more people in my situation. I've been working on cars in the steep driveway for a lot of years. I am at a position in my life where I have collected most of the tools I need, I have tracked down the cars I want to build, and I can finally afford a little extra rent, but most of the L.A. housing situation is really difficult if you want to do loud work late into the night. My neighbors are too close for me to fire up the grinder past 8pm- not to mention my wife. The artist co-op is a pretty good comparison and I think it polices itself a bit when everyone has there most important stuff in the building. Anyway, I'm not so woriied about theft and hot rodders turned crack heads. There are a bunch of us who may look like scary deviants but can be totally honorable when it comes to something that we all hold sacred. There is a sort of code of honor of "the garage" and it doesn't seem like it would be hard to get together a few people who respect that. Also, reprogrammable locks are a great idea to keep "friends of friends" out, but basically in the end it has to come down to getting a group of honorable guys. Luckily, one of the best ways to jusdge a person is by looking at thier car and talking about the details. . . you get an idea real quick if a person is committed, serious, hard-working, creative, funny, etc . Any other ideas of where I can get the word out?
BStick- that's me. I have never posted photos because I keep waiting for the Bumper Boyz to get tired of jerking me around and give me my last few chrome pieces. . . then i'll take pictures. Don't get me started on a Bumper Boyz rant . . .
A friend of mine did this same thing, they pooled tools and equip and had the best set up. UNTIL the day a buddie borrowed the shop,he didnt want to use any elec. so he just strung a halogen work light out and pulled the fuel tank on his car. the tank fell off the jack and slashed gas on the light and burned him and the shop to the ground. after it was all over their were 14 cars lost and the big question who pays ? no insurance on the building they were renting so owner wants money too. big mess and everyone pissed off !
I'd be in at 150.00, though that whole fire story reminds me about that barris shop fire, oo scary, insuring that type of setup might be weird, sounds nice but sort of a pipe dream at the same time, nothing is ever "happy happy, joy joy" there are always issues. I mean look there are MoFo's correcting other peoples spelling on here, who care about little shit like that, but in a shop situation when I'm working on my car and you keep teeling me to do it "your way" well there is going to be issues. I'm out don't the Shifters have that same type of workspace? you should ask Axle for some advise, on this
Insurance doesn't have to be a problem. Unless like those 14 guys whose cars burned, you choose to go without and cry about it later. It's a sad story, for sure, of course they are pissed off. But insurance follows the car whether you park it next to a guy who is working on his or not- floods, hail, stupid pyromaniacs, whatever. I think taking outside work other than for a friend or two might be a problem- then you are running a shop and insurance becomes an issue again. It is basically car storage and owner maintenance. It can be simple. As far as borrowing tools and stuff go - i'm not thinking we all get married or something. I guess all of these stories clarify what is attractive about this for me- the very fact that it's NOT a car club. We would bond over WORK on cars- Not style, or events. Car clubs are social and this is more utilitarian. Members could be in whatever club they want and they can have whatever friends they want. I am sure friendships would develop over time and the thing would turn into a scene -thats part of the fun- but we wouldn't have to all be "NewBestFriends" from day one - just be real build some bitchin rides and show each other respect- naming our kids after each other could come later. As for building types- I almost went for a gas station a few months ago but they really aren't ideal 1) they are usually a bit too close to residential or on higher rent retail streets so you pay more $ and worry more about complaints 2) they have small indoor space -three bays max 3) they usually are not leaseable space 4) lifts are cool but sharing one would cause too much moving around every time someone wanted to use it. Some cars move- mine usually don't for months at a time. The cheapest and most widely available stuff is big bland wherehouse space with one big roll up door. I just want an area to work in, set up my bench, hang some welding shields and get down to business. If you want a polished billet lift in your space then put one in. Easy, huh? Maybe? Sharing is cool but you can't legislate it.
I think the way to go would be to run it like a business. The person who signs the lease is the boss, his rules period. after all he is ultimately responsible. I think it would work. everybody gets a assigned area for his project and his tools. with a area for common tools, welding table, english wheel ect. maybe even a lathe or mill. and another area for a paint booth, the guys that have extra skills, electrical, plumbing etc would be able to take the shop set up off there rent, maybe a extra bay for outside projects to help pay the rent. This also could be a great opportunity for a guy just starting his own custom business, to see where it goes but not going bankrupt doing it. I would be into it so much, even though i have a small one car garage my shop tools take up most of it, it would be nice not to have to work in the drive way and have to put all your tools away every time you want to take a piss. I live on the west side so a culver city location would be nice But north holywood or by the brewery could work too. I know south central is really cheap right now (LA riots) but that may not be a place I want to leave at two in the morn. I think this could work PTL PM me if you want to have a beer and figure this out more. Also Burndup, are you reading this? you of all people should jump on this.
Guys, what you have described IS my present situation. I'm part of an Artist Co-Operative that leases a warehouse on the fringe of Downtown Houston. We've got about 20,000 square feet and my portion is around 4,000. Another tennant has 5,000 and the rest is divided between eight other artist. Admission to the group is by unamious decision after a group interview. New members must sign a version of the lease, and agree to abide by the "tennant's agreement". We each have our own seperate locked area (except me, a fire escape is in my area). No strangers are allowed in the building without escort. This reduces theft, vandalism, and reduces liability insurance by makeing it a "closed building". Each area has it's own electrical meter. We share one water meter and have no gas. We share a dumpster and lawn maintaince. We are individually responsibility for our "interior space". The building owner is responsible for the doors and the roof. There are lots of rules about animals, residents, common spaces, subleasing, etc....We also have HUGE deposits to prevent risk of not paying rent. Including all fees the rent is relatively low: 25 cents per foot! It can be HARD to make it work, but if it's treated like a business it can work. Forget sharing tools though. That's got to be between friends. Forget having unsupervised guests over. Forget combo locks. Use good security keys (very expensive and difficult to make) and use different keys for each individual area that also open the master door - that way if a stranger shows up with a key, you can find out who's it is and evict them. FWIW, my group is pretty low key. That means NO PARTIES. They don't have a problem if I'm grinding and cutting all through the night - that's ART, but if I'm playing loud music and have a bunch of drunken revellers dancing, that's a no-no. Insurance: the group has liability insurance for the building, contents, and to persons. So, if one of us burn down the building the insurance pays for the building, everyone's contents that were damaged and for any injuries that were sustained by anyone in the building. Closing the building to the public dramatically lowered the cost. The bill is divided evenly among the tennants. Remember to have a clause that describes residental use of the area. My building has two bathrooms in my area, and a third bathroom that's shared among the eight small areas. We long ago decided that my giant area was OK for a residence and that two of the eight smaller areas were available for residental use - first come, first served. No other residental use is allowed. Those tennants MUST have an outside residence and may not sleep more than one night in a row at the studios. It's too dangerous.
Hey Praise, Here's my 2 cents on this topic because I've been there and done it. Just make sure all the boy's are stand up guys and realize that everyone respects everyone's rides,tools,supplies and if you have a beer fridge and yes you will, that they replaced the beer they drink. Also another important point is how many keys are made and who get's them. Make sure you can have the changable locks in the doors in case a key goes missing or some one get's pissed off and leaves with the key! You also want the low profile around the shop(burnouts/load parties attrack the cops and piss off good neigbours in the long run....I made that mistake...ouch!). One last note, we always tried to get guy's that had good skills in different area's (ie. body work, interior, motor, welding etc...)keeps the cost down on the car building if everything is kept in house! Other then that ...it's a great idea that I had fun with before having KIDS!! Good Luck!!
Keep storage and shop space totally separate. You don't want bondo dust, overspray and grinder filings in your car. Same for door dings when a jack handle falls on your ride. Shit happens, the more guys around the more shit happens. How ya gonna feel when your buddy's 3 year old keys your paint with a skrewdriver trying to be like daddy. How's HE gonna feel?
iam game for this... but i hate typing long drawn out messages, id like to talk about it in person as well as seeing who iam getting into business with. i use the term business since we will be exchaning money, its an excellant hippie-ish idea... but greed and emotions usually fuck a good thing up. regardless, lets see what we come up with. worse thing that can happen is those interested say "no"
Speaking from experience, it was a huge pain in my ass overall... Some of the guys are not as close of friends as they once were... it was a pain collecting money from 3-5 guys every month... yes, your tools have a way of disappearing... no respect for your space/stuff if you aren't there often to watch what goes on... I could go on and on and on... But, I'd do it again ONLY with very close friends, not just 'friends of friends'... Good luck..!!! Snacks...
wow first thanks for all of the advice. lots of horror stories but i am still not scared off- I'm also glad to hear some interest from some locals in joining up if it can be worked out for a good price. It isn't real until it's real and I don't want to waste anyone's time so I'll do some more reality checking in the next few weeks and report back when I have something to report. I am planning on going to the hamb bbq on Feb 22 so that might be a good time to meet face to face with anyone giving this some thought- i'll try to have a clearer picture by then of what's out there and what it might cost.
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