Register now to get rid of these ads!

Kustom coupe+tampered VIN=trouble?... what can I do?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ALLISON, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Awhile back I bought this unfinished sectioned 1950 coupe, site unseen... I had no reason to doubt anything I was told about the car and the deal sounded great. Six weeks ago I finally got the car home and immediately tore into it, mainly welding up the seems... But, it didnt take long before I realized the car had NO VIN tag on it, and after some research I realized it was actually a 1951?
    So I contacted the guy I got it from and he said he had the VIN tag still. Said he removed it when he cut the firewall.. So I get it from him and it says 1950 coupe and matches the title I got with the car... but more digging turns up a different 1951 VIN stamped into the frame???
    Now after weeks of asking questions and trying to track down the cars history or get the guy to do something about the problem, Im stuck.
    There is no doubt at all that the 1950 title and tags are NOT for this 1951 car because nothing matches up, and I have been told every possible solution from calling a sheriff to grinding the numbers off the frame. And frankly at this point, I just want to get rid of the thing... but how can I do that? Or is this problem even something I should be worried about?
     
  2. Studebakester
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 264

    Studebakester
    Member
    from Oxnard, CA

    If you really like the car, there are numerous ways to get a title and serial tag, but if it was me I would go with what you have in your hand and register it as a 50. Many states don't even have titles for cars that old and all you get is a bill of sale to register it with. I don't understand how that works but I see it mentioned frequently in the classifieds.
    I recently had a similar problem and just went with the one I had paperwork on. My 2 cents worth. Good luck with it.
    Oh yeah, I noticed you list 2 different states. It might be worth while to investigate both states requirements. You never know.
    db
     
  3. Is the car in Washington?
     
  4. What state are you going to register it in?

    What's their normal procedure when you hand them an old title and reciept?

    Here it wouldn't really be a big deal as they don't inspect anything; so long as you never intend to sell the car you're more or less okay - in a bad accident that non-matched frame number could haunt you, though.

    But you may have an option to get it inspected and perhaps bond it and get a state assigned VIN and be okay, too.
     

  5. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    No, its in MN...
    ...and yes, I had planned on building it.. but ultimately, Im going to sell it and thats what worries me... in fact I sold once already and luckily the deal fell through before it left MN... Thats what prompted me to start welding it up and stripping paint which lead to this discovery...
    ...Putting the VIN tag and clean title I have on it and taking off the frame VIN doesnt bother me THAT much... specially if I was going to keep it.. but the fact its not even the same year and Im going to sell it... that does worry me.
     
  6. Some cars didn't change much from 50 to 51.
     
  7. slddnmatt
    Joined: Mar 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,682

    slddnmatt
    Member

    what make is this?
     
  8. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,835

    henry29
    Member

    How do you know for sure that it is a 51?
    In the last 60 years a lot could have happened.

    Why not continue with your existing thread, instead of starting a new one?
     
  9. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,869

    chaddilac
    Member

    So just sell it as a 51 and include a clean title and vin tag for a 50! I don't see the problem!
     
  10. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Its a 51 Ford.. title and tags are for a 50 Ford... titles VIN numbers dont match the cars VIN numbers....

    ... main difference between the 50 and 51 are the hidden trunk hinges... the car wouild be heavily customized when finished anyway so visually it would be difficult to say it started as a 49, 50 or 51.. the main problem is the VIN numbers on the tags and the frame are different.
     
  11. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    This is the car after I spent a few weeks finishingh up the section... and there is/was a plan for what it will be done... this VIN problem has kind of halted that for the moment though.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Sphynx
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 1,142

    Sphynx
    Member
    from Central Fl

    I say your safe to run the vin and tag in hand. Truth is unless its been registered in the past 10 years it would not be on file. And if it ever gets checked no body would even look at the numbers on the frame.
     
  13. You're not going to like this. But I would title the car in Washington on the frame number with a state patrol inspection and a bond. It's actually pretty simple.....
     
  14. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 813

    saltracer219
    Member

    This has been covered here several times before. Altering a vin in any way is a serious offense. Contact your DMV or State Patrol and see what they recommend. Every state is different. It's not worth going to jail over.
     
  15. slddnmatt
    Joined: Mar 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,682

    slddnmatt
    Member

    out here, DMV goes by the frame number unless it didnt originally come with one.. i built a 51 ford business coupe for a guy that also had a 50, he swapped body's to have the clipped shoebox frame for the 51, DMV just went off the number stamped in the firewall. the number on the frame was long gone from doing the clip..i would check the body ID and make sure its clean or non excistant and use the chassis numbers..a DMV person isn't going to go into that much detail looking at the car. there going to look at the chassis numbers and walk away...
     
  16. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Thats one thing Im thinking would make it all good.. I dont know anything about the frame VIN or how long since its been on record, but the title is from 2008, registered in the guys name I bought it from... and I have numerous emails from him saying the tags he gave me came off the car.
     
  17. So the car had the frame swapped at some time in the last 60 years due to accident damage. ;):rolleyes:
     
  18. CraigR
    Joined: Jun 20, 2008
    Posts: 375

    CraigR
    Member
    from California

    How do you know it's not a genuine '50 that had the hinges updated & the chassis switched out at some point? If you'd never found the non matching VIN would you question the tag & paperwork you have? Some cars of this era had the ENGINE number used as the VIN by some states. Now generations later with a repower & frame swap there's nothing on the vehicle that matches the paperwork. And these cars can change hands many times without anyone picking up on it, as most states will let you re-register a title in your name without seeing the actual VIN of the vehicle in question. Cover the frame VIN (there could be a car running around titled with that VIN) rivet the tag you have to the stock location and call it good. It will never be an issue - anyone who needs to check that VIN will look in the most obvious/stock location first, and you have that covered legitimately.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  19. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    I thought about this solution too... because there is a decent chance I would clip the thing, the frame VIN would be gone anyway... and because the car is actually a 51 it has no numbers stamped into the body... if the front of the frame is gone, there are no numbers that say its a 51....

    The guy i bought it from told me to just get rid of the 51 numbers and put the 50 tag on it, and everything would be fine... and I know on early stuff that happens alot and IS fine.. but I also know if you try those same kinds of things with 60s cars (muscle cars in particular).. its not fine... so thats where my delema is
     
  20. six pack to go
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 1,938

    six pack to go
    Member
    from new jersey

    Show me a DMV worker in any state that would even be able to find the nubers on the frame then I would start to worry... $0.02
     
  21. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Im not against doing that.. but I thought the car had to go through a physical inspection in WA???
     
  22. CraigR
    Joined: Jun 20, 2008
    Posts: 375

    CraigR
    Member
    from California

    Yep, I'd go with what the seller said - 'cause that's the car he got the tag & paperwork off. When you refer to muscle cars are you talking about the whole 'numbers matching' thing? It's a custom - do you think the Hirohata Merc would devalue if we found out it's actually titled as a 50 not a 51? Would you turn down the Matranga Merc if the title said it was a '39?
     
  23. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Ya, I did question it.. thats how I realized it was a 51, and went on to find it had different numbers.
     
  24. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    Yes, I totally know what your saying:)... but I have buddies go through hell due to numbers problems when thet've sold even legit cars, particularly out of the US... if this was some clunker it wouldnt matter but at this early stage Im hesitant to start dumping time and money into something I might have troubles selling down the road... know what I mean??

    Maybe its really no big deal, alot of the guys here dont seem to think so... So maybe I'll just put the tags on i have, use the title it came with, and call it good:)
     
  25. slddnmatt
    Joined: Mar 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,682

    slddnmatt
    Member

    if it has a chassis number, i would check that to see if its clear. if it is, i would register it with that number, not a body tag. this pic is of the 51 i was talking about. the 50's frame had no numbers we could find, so the DMV went off of the body stamed VIN on the 51's body
     

    Attached Files:

  26. It does, But they are pretty lenient. You go do the inspection and it would be titled on the 51 frame number. They just want to make sure it's not stolen or it's something not what you said like a imported 2012 car illegal in the states . I've asked about body mods such as yours or a chop and as long as the vehicle still resembles the vehicle it's titled as you should be fine. Where you run into trouble is custom cars that don't resemble their original base that don't have a title. Those get titled as homebuilt. For example In Washington you could build a model A out of all swap meet parts. It could never even have been titled in Washington before. Take it to inspection and as long as you have a bill of sale for the major components you and the frame numbers are legible and clear you will be issued 3 year registration with no title. At this point you can either leave it open and if someone produces paper work that trumps yours they own the car or you get a bond to protect yourself. After three years you apply for the certificate of title. You can still sell the car within the three years, but it is a PITA and people are suspicious.
     
  27. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,056

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'd say that the choices are either bring it to Washington when you come back this way and run it through the inspection here using the frame number or register it as a 50 there and then run it through inspection later as having the frame swapped due to the stock frame being rusted completely out.

    Do you have a few photos of a really rusted out, hacked up or otherwise ruined 50 Ford frame in your photo collection? And a receipt or bill of sale for a used Ford frame.

    Or do a subframe job or frame swap and loose the vin on the frame and call it good.
     
  28. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    That was my other thought... Ive spent a ton of time the last week looking at shoebox sites and have found that i can even buy brand new tags and have them stamped with correct numbers.
     
  29. ALLISON
    Joined: Oct 26, 2004
    Posts: 616

    ALLISON
    Member

    No, but I sure know where to get some:)... cars back here rot out like hell!
     
  30. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,056

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You had better never try to run a bogus car through the WSP inspection station in Union Gap Wa as they hunt until they are positive there is no existing vin. I've run a lot of rigs through there in the last 35 years and they do a thorough job. When they take your rig in behind the locked door to put it on the hoist and check it from one end to the other you tend to get a bit nervous even when you know everything is right.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.