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Projects Koz is building a modified, (my next build)

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Koz, May 28, 2012.

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  1. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    Time for another of my long winded build threads. With the passing of my Sport Coupe to 1Oldrat I am once again without a ride for Fall Wildwood, which is the only run I really care about all year anyway.:( As this would be my fourth year going without wheels I decided to make a concentrated effort to build something in the next twelve weeks that will take me and my sweety to the shore and back in at least a touch of honor.

    I raided all the parts I could find loose in the shop and came up with enough stuff to build a fairly cool old timey modified albeit with a slightly non traditional drivetrain. Basiclly, the car is being built out of all the parts nobody else on the HAMB wanted!

    I started by braking some 10 ga. pickled and oiled to "A" frame dimensions, (1 3/4" x 4"), and shearing some matching boxing plates. I used the frame dimensions off Norms' Lightning Bug along with the front crossmember details and very unique suicide perch. I idn't want it to look like a glorified T Bucket frame so there are some differences here to keep it a little more yummy.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I used a pair of Speedway 'bones I aquired from HomemadeHardtop57 and fabbed some of my signiture frame mounts for the rod ends to set the front end up to use an undropped Model A axle.

    [​IMG]

    The driveline is a very potent 283, which i actually a 292 now, with some nicely done fuely heads, "Duntov" cam, roller rockers, trips on an old Edelbrock C357 with 3 Holley 94's and a Bubbas distributor from CuzinBrucie. This was the motor for my Sporty that didn't go with the car. I tried to trade it for a flatty but no one was interested so in it went. I tied it to a GM Corp. Muncie 5 speed and a light 9" from 1 OldRat that I narrowed and centered.

    [​IMG]

    The motor mounts are some simple biscuits along with some .250 stock and a little whittling with a saw and sander. The trans mount is a standard GM on a drop out plate. This trans is essentually an M21 Muncie with internal rails and an overdrive added. I havn't broken one yet, which is unusual for me. The rear has 4.11 cogs which should make this thing an E ticket ride at the stoplight drags.

    [​IMG]

    I've got a week or so into this and I'm going to keep swinging. I'm starting on the firewall and cowl using a '28 AR gas tank for the top and fabbing the rest. Should be a simple shell to build including the working doors.

    I'll keep you posted as I move along. The goal is for a roller by the end of June.
     
  2. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,257

    oj
    Member

    Great start and i like the componants, looking forward to the body part.
     
  3. jerseymike
    Joined: Sep 25, 2008
    Posts: 680

    jerseymike
    Member

    WHAT? another one gone? man there's a better chance of seeing bigfoot than seeing one of your builds completed! hope you make your deadline.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  4. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,273

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    this has the potential to be awesome. i'll ride along and watch.
     

  5. fleetside66
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,601

    fleetside66
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Holy crap! He's at it again! When will it ever end? I have a strange feeling that this one is going to be sitting on the boardwalk when the leaves are changin.' Go, man, go!
     
  6. motoandy
    Joined: Sep 19, 2007
    Posts: 3,308

    motoandy
    Member
    from MB, SC

    off to a nice start. good luck
     
  7. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    Thanks for the encouragement guys! JerseyMike, it may not seem it but the Sport Coupe as the first one I've built in a while that wasn't finished or at least running under it's own power out the shop. The Sporty did however have all the tough stuff done. It seems like I go through a lot of cars but most of them are pretty much built on speculation and for sale from day one. I use the builds to fill time between customer cars. It just seems that lately the sales just seem to coincide with me not having a ride to the shore. I'd hitch a ride with you but I don't think you made the reliability run with us yet. Eh?, hint hint!

    So for you and Fleetside, if I get this sucker done in time are you going with us? Of course everybody else is invited too! We have a block of rooms saved so give me or Jerry a PM if your in need.

    In the meantime, NWClassics on here has hooked me up with the rear brakes I needed along with the '56 pickup brakes I picked up from WisconsinMicko on here. I have just about all the parts for the whole build on the pile. It's just assembly/fabrication time now, which is all on me.

    I'll post regularly.....
     
  8. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,247

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Ohhh man....I'm so into this one! :D
    Keep hammerin' Koz!!!
     
  9. skull
    Joined: Jun 26, 2007
    Posts: 498

    skull
    Member

    modified? that don't look like no dirt track car:confused:

    looks like a good start,

    Later :cool:
     
  10. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,770

    fleet-master
    Member

    oh man ...another great modified build...between you and Woodbox,your making it very difficult to stay focused on my Belair..........!!!! :D:eek:
     
  11. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    By "modified", I'm refering to a West coast dry lakes modified that proweled the lakes right after WWII. I love roundy round dirt modifieds but not for the street. This type of car would have had a flatty and banjo/toploader so the reference to the non traditional drivetrain stands. Also this is a two seater which wasn't that uncommon either.

    [​IMG]
    I think this one is the "nuts"! I think it may be an early Blackie GaJean car but I'm not sure. I stole this pic from another thread on here, not sure which one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  12. TexasSpeed
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 4,618

    TexasSpeed
    Member

    So this is the one you were telling me about, uh?

    12 weeks to pull it off too.. I have faith in you, buddy!
     
  13. FlynBrian
    Joined: Oct 5, 2007
    Posts: 759

    FlynBrian
    Member

    Looking good. Is that muncie 5spd out of a 4.3L S10? I heard they were pretty tough. Sounds like you have experience with them. Might have to hit the local u-pull yard and try and score one, would like having overdrive.
     
  14. skull
    Joined: Jun 26, 2007
    Posts: 498

    skull
    Member

    yea, l see the problem with me now, those style cars were a little before my time:D

    12 weeks is a short time to build a hot rod, it took me 12 years:eek:

    please keep us updated, looking foreward to the finish of this one.

    Later :cool:
     
  15. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    interesting...
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  16. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    The Muncie, to the best of my knowledge was used in all kinds of GM stuff from about '84 on up. I don't think they were used in S-10s as they were the T-5 light duty trans if I'm correct, and I invite the more knowledgable folks here to jump in! They were used in Silverado hot pickups, mostly in back of 350's, 350 Camaros and I have heard in 5 spd. Vettes through the late '90's. It is my understanding that sometimes they were used in back of 4.3 sixes, but it was the same trans. I use them a lot because I understand they are as strong as an M-21, of which they share a lot of internal hard parts, and are dirt cheap. I picked this one up at Naftzingers Used Auto Parts, (junkyard), for 175.00 and they pulled it for me. They are very common around here and a bunch of my buddys run them as well in back of small blocks. I have no idea how well they would hold up in back of a big block.

    A couple items of note, as I have used these for quite a few years now. They have an intregal cast bellhousing which will accept the 11" standard Chevy clutch, presure plate and flywheel. The front bearing retainer is the same as an M-21 and as such you can use either the stock Chevy hydralic throwout bearing or the Howe or Afco ones that Speedway sells. There are no provisions for a clutch arm in the bell but the bell has cast access holes for the hydralic lines on both sides so I'm sure they used this on some European apps as well. The trans actually weighs in at slightly less than an M-21 due to the finned case and intregal bell.

    They take a standard driveshaft from most Chevs of the era. I'm not sure why you don't see more of these as they are common in the yards around here and way cheaper than a world class T-5 with an S-10 tail and way stronger than the S-10 T-5. I have never broken one and this has been with some pretty "enthusiastic" driving. I think they are only available in one ratio, basically the same as a standard M-21. I don't know if you can swap the gears from a close ratio M-21 into this case. Would be kind of ineresting to find out.

    If your looking for one in a yard I usually look for late '80's early 90's Chevy 2 wd sport pickups. Pretty easy to get around here so I try to choose something with low miles. There are a bunch of aftermarket shift towers available fo these but the stock one works so good I never wasted the money. If they are a little loose the nylon cups that hold the shifter are easily replaced without tearing the trans down, just four bolts in the tower, and cost about 12 bucks at NAPA.

    They were all Hall Effect sensors for the Speedo. I've never seen one with a mechanical Speedo drive. The factory sensor does work, from experience, with New Vintage 1935 and 1940 Military gauges, the Moon electronic Speedos and probably a lot of the others. They use the same trans mount as an M-21 and at the same location so if you have a four speed the 5 speed is a virtual bolt in. I think it is the same as a Turbo 350 also.

    Thats about all I know so I invite the rest of you to jump in and fill in the blanks.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  17. TexasSpeed
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 4,618

    TexasSpeed
    Member

    Sounds like I need to look into getting one for my C10..

    Learnin' something new everyday.
     
  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,257

    oj
    Member

    I keep this picture (as well as 'Stripers' modified) taped near the frame table. The headers alone blow me away.
     
  19. dvlscoupe
    Joined: Jul 21, 2004
    Posts: 761

    dvlscoupe
    Member

    I used a pair of Speedway 'bones I aquired from HomemadeHardtop57 and fabbed some of my signiture frame mounts for the rod ends to set the front end up to use an undropped Model A axle.

    [​IMG]


    Any other detail shots of the mount? I'd like to run something like this.
     
  20. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    [​IMG]

    These are simple to build and work great. The plates are made of 1/4" cold roll, overall dimensions 3 1/4" x 5" at the wide point. I back them with a 1 1/2" diameter 3/8" cold roll slug. The four corners are bored for 3/8" bolts. I security weld the slug to the back of the plate and drill to 1/2" and taper ream to fit a standard Ford tie rod end using an old taper reamer I sourced from Speedway years ago. They still sell them.

    I place a hole in the frame at the appropriate location using a 1 1/2" holesaw and drill the frame for the four 3/8" bolts.

    [​IMG]

    I then tack three grade 8 nuts to the inside of the frame reaching the mig through the big hole. I just use a spare bolt shot up with spatter eliminator to hold the nuts while I weld. The fourth nut is welded to a scrap of 10ga. stock about 2 1/2" long and plug welded through a hole that the plate covers later.

    Remember to use grade 8, 3/8" x 1 1/4" fasteners on the plate and tighten and cotter your rod ends soundly before assembly. The pics are from a '35 pickup frame for a customer in the shop but I use the same parts on everything.

    Let me know if you need any additional info.
     
  21. Sumfuncomet
    Joined: Dec 31, 2011
    Posts: 578

    Sumfuncomet
    Member

    Very nice looking so far, can't wait to see how you build the body out of pieces. I am using a 31 truck cowl and doors, 30 Tudor rear panel for my modified, someone already butchered off the door tops and windshield posts so I don't feel bad about making it my modified, Coupester A bucket bastard!
     
  22. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,247

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    NOT built by "Blackie Gajean"...
    this Mod was actually built and raced by a Mr (Joe?) Proulx and it has a dedicated thread with the goal to find more info on this lost gem!
    We MAY actually be close to additional info...just waiting for Mr Proulx's Grandson to get some pics up!
    Hopefully coming soon! :D
    This is a link to the thread...
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340344
     
  23. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    Here's my last call before I go any further...... Anybody have a Flatty with trans of equal value they want to trade for my Chevy/Muncie setup?

    I'm all ears..................

    Didn't think so!
     
  24. FlynBrian
    Joined: Oct 5, 2007
    Posts: 759

    FlynBrian
    Member

    Koz: Thanks for breaking that down for me, I appreciate the info. I have it saved for future reference. I have plenty of u-pull yards around central Fla, shouldn't be a problem finding a few, and your $175.00 you quoted is about what a 5 speed goes for in a u-pull around here with the core charge.
     
  25. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    Good luck hunting the yards and by your avatar, Thanks for your service!
     
  26. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    Hackerbilt, Thanks for the info. What a great thread. I'd be interested in how the rear radius rods were engineered. Could there be some type of open drive line? Wish there were more pics from other angles. My concern with mine is that it should have the flatty and the early drive train. I'm going to work on the sheet metal while I see if I can source the right stuff.
     
  27. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,247

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Hey...no problem!
    I'm an absolute Modified nut too so I was really liking this thread to start with...THEN I find out just which Modified you were drawing your inspiration from!

    I fully expect to own at least HALF the views this thread gets! :D
     
  28. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,288

    Koz
    Member

    The deed is done! I have traded and sold my Chevy drivetrain off and have secured a very nice 8Ba and have a line going on a trans and rear. When I have them here I'm going to shorten up the rear and throw a set of 3.54's in along with anything else that looks really sad. I'm picking the motor up on Friday and over the weekend I'm going to pop the pan and check rods and mains. If they look like they'll live for a few hundred miles, I'm cleaning the screen and pan and it's going back together.

    I've picked up 5 mint, (like restoration quality!), '35 straight wires with decent rubber. I'm going to use two of the 6.50-16 up front and the other two will get 7.50-16 Firestones for the shore ride. I'm going to need a set of late Ford juice brakes for the front, '40-'48 if anybody has a set for sale.

    Things are progressing nicely and pics will soon follow as I start to get this stuff into the shop. I'm really getting into this project as it should be very close to the way they were really built. A chance to drive one that actually feels like they did back then. How good doe's it get!
     
  29. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,247

    Hackerbilt
    Member

  30. TexasSpeed
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 4,618

    TexasSpeed
    Member

    Sweet! Can't wait to see it all come together!
     
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