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Projects Kinmont brakes (thinking of taking the bull by the horns)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Cowtown Speed Shop, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    Yes I talked to Bob Wilson a few times, first time I talked to him about this was in 2007. then again in 2010 then again in 2012....I have alot of respect for Bob, But I think this project is more than he is able to handle with his current load.......Bottomline is these brakes were made by hand in the USA in the 40's......I myself along with the casting company (who does this for a living) and the machinist (who does this for a living) Say these brakes can be copied and produced. My machinist is No clown! He makes parts for "Catapilar engines" And is worth millions.......This little project is "Baby shit" to him. Here is what I ask, Unless any of you know me, And No what I can and can't get done...Then please find someone else to tell what they can and can't do....Many self made millionaires were told "It can't be that simple" If they would have listened then they would still be working at mcdonalds with those of you who told them that.
     
  2. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 606

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Why all this negativity? If the man wants to reproduce the brakes I encourage him and wish him good luck. As for the 8K Kinmonts at LARS, yes it was me that posted them. I picked them up held them and the price was 8k missing the wheel cylinders. I almost bought them abut he had a 4 NOS early Halibrand spline drives I needed for my Indy car for a less that beat up regular mags go for on the auction site. I would have been a raving lunatic not to buy them. There were deals to be had if you looked. The guys that still think they cant get prices from 5 years ago for this stuff need a reality check. The market is not there anymore! I also bought a mint 33 roadster dash for $350 from another vendor and I heard of 34 roadster that sold Friday morning in line to get in for 25-30k. Its like any swap meet, some people go to sell and some people go to show others what in their garage.

    Cowtown, your right, for a good machinist its a small job. Don't let the pundits discourage you. Move forward!
     
    patmanta and kidcampbell71 like this.
  3. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    I have no interest or capabilities in owning these but I really wan't to see you succeed in your goal.
     
  4. Yes sir brother......just make your set. Maybe 3 or 4 sets and run the hell out of them, on whatever that you choose to install them on. Post your pics, and ha ha has........then configure your business plan. Think the only satisfaction here is for you to just knock them out......and not worry about the negatives yet. Be nice to have them built, and for sale......and the only negative being....people trying to budget to get them from you.

    Best of luck to anyone out there, and on here.......that chooses to do what most say can't be done. I have man crushes on all of you.
     
  5. Raunchy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2007
    Posts: 378

    Raunchy
    Member

    I would think anything they could build then should only be better now. Especially with all the tolerances the new CNC machines will hold and the machining capabilities they have. I would say do it and sell what extras you have and have fun doing it. With all the HotRods out there now they should probably all be gone quickly. I know people who have done things just to show the nay sayers they were wrong.
     
  6. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,664

    55willys
    Member

    The neggy's will always be there with their profound lack of productivity, but us doer's will just ignore them and continue to make the world a better place. They tried to discourage me on my adapter covers but as you can see I prevailed. Keep at it and you will win. Jim Ford
     
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,283

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any progress on this? If not, I do understand how it takes time to get stuff done. I am very good at taking twice (or thrice) the amount of time I originally plan for a project.
     
  8. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    I am still trying to find parts, I Have a few things in the works, But Nothing set in stone yet. (kinda hard to copy parts that I don't have...LOL) I am learning alot about original kinmonts From guys who have them on their cars, And actually use them. One of the biggest things I found interesting is According to the Guys who have and use them, All this talk about them not working well as far as stoping goes is a Bunch of BS....I found a guy who has a original set of four who Is not sure if he wants to sell or not, But is considering loaning them to me to use as patterns. He is Up there in age and is not very trusting, Which is understandable in todays world of Rip off Assholes!!.....I also have talked to another person who I think is better fitted for this project than I am, So I might hand it off to him and just Help him get this done. As I said to begin with I do not care either way, I just want the brakes. And I plan to use them So There needs to be replacement parts to be had. Anyhow we will see how it plays out, But until I am able to make a deal for parts, I am on hold. I have gotten a bunch of support and interest in getting this done, So I am now sure there is a market for these.
     
  9. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,664

    55willys
    Member

    Even if the market is small you will make it bigger by making the parts available. The one who wins is the one who perceivers till the end. Jim Ford
     
    draggin49 likes this.
  10. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,664

    55willys
    Member

    Is there any updates as to progress with this endeavor.
    Jim Ford
     
  11. So.... it's been 1.5 years and multiple sets of Kinmonts have been available for purchase both here and on eBay that could have been used for dimensional data...
     
  12. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,175

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I'm thinking that this idea is dead in the water, drowned, and gone. :D
     
  13. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,850

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Too bad. If I ever have an idea about something like this, I'll think twice about posting it on here.
     
  14. FYI- There were 325 Kinmont Brake Sets Made, per a Mr. Horne an Employee of Bell Auto (Roy Richter) back in the Late 1970's. He Told me that they (Years Ago) were Demolishing a Wooden Storage Building behind the Bell's Main Building. They Burned the Wood & the Kinmont Brake Patterns. To Run Kinmont Brakes & get the Correct Braking Effect. You Need to Run a Full Set of 4 Brakes. That means A Pair of Fronts WITH a Pair of Rears Kinmont Brakes. You Can't just Run a Front Pair of Kinmont Brakes to get the Full Best Results. I've a Full Set of Kinmont Brakes & a Half of a Set (a Pair). The Major Difference Between a Front Pair & Rear Kinmont Brakes is the Rear Finned Brake Backing Plates are Setup for Emergency Brake Cables. There's a Hole at the Lower Center of the Backing Plate. The Cable With a Steel Ball enters the Backing Plate. There's a Steel Cup Welded on the Square Steel Shaped Horse Collar. The Steel Brake Line Ball Fits into Cup. All Four Kinmont's are Label on the Finned Backing Plates RF, LF, RR, & LR. In my 40 Years of Constant Searching for Individual Parts. I've only Found 4 NOS Brake Hoops. An I've Recently Purchased a Full Set of Stainless Steel Brake Cylinders from a Individual (Professional Made & Correct). There was a Man in Arizona. that made & Sold the Fluted Brake Adjustment Washers, that Was Used on the Outer Finned Backing Plates! I Can't Remember the Price, but they were Very Reasonable. They were Advertised in Hemming's Motor News 5 or More Years Ago. I've also Spoke to a Man that Owns the Display Model (Kinmont Brake Cutaway). That was used to Show Mr. Preston Tucker. But, they were NEVER used as he was Having Problems with Negative Complaints From the Financial Market & News Media. This was a Results of the Slow Manufacturing of the Tucker Car. But, these Brakes did Work & Mr. Preston Tucker, Did like the Brakes. He was Shown a Kinmont Brake Cutaway Exhibit on a Stand, that Model also Still Exist. I can't Revel Who owns that Exhibition Display Model. The Original Engineer was Living up in the Bay Area California until the 2000's & He had the Original Blue Prints, & They Still Exist. But, It's a Miracle they Exist at All! He Package them up & Sent them back East! When he Went back to his House, his House & His Neiborhood was Destroyed by Forest Fire. Within an Hour of being Mailed. I can't Reveal, as to Who has Them. Without their Permission. I've talk to Cow Town Speed Shop, but I can't loan my Brakes Out. As, I'm not in the Best of Health, as I've had Problems with Loaning Part Items in the Past. I Hope this Helps out for the HAMBER's to see where this is At. I Believe that the Kinmont Brakes are a Good & Safe Braking System. I've Drove & Rode in a Kinmont Brake Car. There was Extensive Brake Testing & Thousand of Miles done back in the 1940's by Triple AAA & By the California High-way Patrol. There has Been individuals that have made Piece Parts for Kinmont Brakes, but the General Rodding Public didn't buy any of those Items, in Quantity. They were Advertised in Hemming's News & eBay. So, this has Discouraged People into not taking the Financial Risk. I First became aware of these Brakes by the Article in Rod & Custom in 1971 By Tom Senter. An Ive Always wanted A Set. I Found Incomplete 3/4's Set Brakes of 4 came off of a Red 1929 Ford Hiboy Roadster & was Cover Car on 1971 Quarterly Rod & Custom Magazine. This Car was in A New England Hot Rod Shop, the Owner of the 1929 Red Roadster was Killed in a Airplane Crash in New Mexico. I Purchase them from his Estate, For $400.00. Then I Found a Chromed Front Pair In OKC from Hal Meyers for $400.00. They were Complete & were from a 1932 Ford Roadster. In 1986, I Found 4 NOS Kinmont Brake Hoops from a older Hot Rodder in Penn State. They were Advertised in Hemming's. An NO!, I Can't & Won't Sell Any of My Extra Kinmont Brake Parts! My Godfather, Who's Past on. He was a WWII B17 Flight Engineer, went to the 1948 Los Angeles Armory Hot Rod Show. He Purchased a Signed Vic Edelbrock Pocket Catalog, & When I Opened it Up, There's Was a Catalog of the Kinmont Brakes. It's Cover had a Logo Drawing of Kinmont Safety Brakes. On the Back Cover, has Several Pictures was of Calif. HWY Patrol, Wally Parks With Triple AAA People, 1940's Indy Car with First Original Brakes By Milan, & a Kinmont Brake Picture. On the inside Page was a Short Description & Pricing. A Full Set of 4 Brakes were $52.50. Of Course, these Prices are Days Gone By... So, My Writing this was to help inform those that are Interested in Kinmont Brakes. Best Regards Respectfully BigDTexasKid.


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    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
  15. F-head
    Joined: Oct 20, 2007
    Posts: 814

    F-head
    Member

    I think Cowtown is busy taking the bull by the horns
     
  16. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,797

    Andy
    Member

    I found that the outer wheel bearings (the little ones!) take all the clamping force. The brakes act like a clutch with the flywheel part being on the hub and all that mechanism pushes a disk (clutch disk) agaist the flywheel part. It looks like a way to overload the bearings. I lost any interest in them.
     
  17. Where did you get that "information"? It's clear that you, nor whomever told you that, has not actually had a set of these brakes in his/her hands.

    The two clamping members of the assembly are fixed to the spindle. The part that is in motion and is clamped in order to stop the motion of the wheel floats in the aluminum hat. It transmits no axial load through the hat, into the hub, and then into the bearings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
    sm0kin likes this.
  18. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    You would be right in thinking that, As after getting some good advice from another Hamber who has done something like this already and hearing his story, I want nothing to do with selling brake parts to other people.
     
  19. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    First off you do not know what you are talking about......Dave's (MT products) brakes are a simple bendix design brake that my 6 yr old son could install safely. I have been selling Daves stuff for years. Kinmonts are not for the average shade tree guy. Not knowing how to set kinmonts up correctly could easily get people killed, Not just them but others on the road as well. Most average guys don't even understand how they work.....And when I sell parts, I do not always know who I am selling too. And as far as the experience of the person I took my advice from. He is an innovator, And has done more in the hot rod and land speed racing world than you or myself ever will, And He has also reproduced very rare and hard to find early speed equipment. In todays world his reproductions are highly sought after and very pricey. I am not going to say his name here without his permission, But he is no clown, And if you knew his name you would choke on your words. Show me what you have done Blue one!! As it is going to take a hell of alot more than that little cookie cutter T bucket thing in your avatar to impress me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  20. dipshit, how cute.

    I bet Blue one would call somebody back, even you. So that's way way way more impressive without doing much more than simply returning a phone call.

    What might I be called for this?
    Called "back" would have been more than enough but I can't wait.

     
  21. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    Actually I just got back on here to edit out the dipshit part, As that was just me losing my cool because I hate it when people want to post ignorant stuff when They do not know the facts.....31 vicky If I didn't call you back for some reason I am sorry. I do not remember ever talking to you, But I talk to several people everyday, So it is hard to keep track. I also am always swamped. My day starts about 6am and most nights I do not get to bed until after midnight.......Not trying to make any excuses, just the way it is for me. If I have wronged you in some way I am truly sorry.
     
  22. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,183

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    Blue one,
    No need to keep coming back and editing your post, I don't get into pissing matches Nor do I hold any grudges.....It's all good!.....I figure you deleted your original post because you realized it was out of line and sounded stupid. And that is the reason I did not quote the whole thing in my reply. No worries we all put our foot in our mouths sometimes, Normally I would have just let it go and not even replied, but you caught me on a bad day. After I posted my reply to you I realized that I was out of line in some of the things I posted towards you. So I went back and edited it. Anyhow I have No hard feelings and I apologize if i offended you. This would have been a good project, However too small of a market really to make much money, And a ton of liability. This idea was killed for me when I found out that another person spent almost 80K fighting a lawsuit trying to keep everything he had worked for due to a injury on a incompetent person misusing his product. And it was not even something as important as brakes.
     
  23. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 19,866

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Internet drama is for little girls... that like to take selfies...
     
  24. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,175

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    It's all good, back to having fun in the garage.
     

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