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Projects Keep the Y-block or move on?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by NAES, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 491

    NAES
    Member

    Hey everyone. I just picked up a '55 Mercury Monterey 4 door and am in the early planning stages of what direction to go. One owner, long neglected, etc, etc.

    I was originally going to pull the Y-block in favor of a 302 or similar but after reading I'm slowing my roll. The car has sat for well over 20 years in the desert with the valve covers and air cleaner off. The pile of dirt I vacumed from the engine compartment alone was impressive! Engine isn't locked up so this could potentially be a situation where a light resealing/reconditioning session could net a cool little powerplant. Its mated to a Merc-o-matic trans.

    The plan is a reliable low buck cruiser so if I'm wasting my time trying to revive a dead player instead of going whole hog on a rebuild please let me know so I can pass it along to someone who would do it up right.

    Thanks all, NAES[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
    OahuEli and dana barlow like this.
  2. Clay Belt
    Joined: Jun 9, 2017
    Posts: 381

    Clay Belt
    Member

    You probably could get it running for cheap, but don't think it would last you more than a year or so without an at least partial rebuild of some sort. It was parked for a reason.
     
    zzford likes this.
  3. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Nothing light about any of the work needed on that car.
    I'd keep the Y but it would need a full blown rebuild along with every other part of the car.
    If you don't have the time, $ or ability to do that then move it along.
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  4. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 1,143

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do a search for @squirel’s Edsel rebuild for the LeMons rally. A great low cost / get running
    Y block rebuild.
     
    Clay Belt likes this.

  5. You got a pig in a poke engine and trans. Probably the valve covers where off because the rockers quit oiling. And that Holley teapot carb and dual advance dist isn't the easiest to make work properly. And I doubt the dried out seals & clutches in the Trans will last very long if it even works at all. I would ditch the boat Anchor and swap in a FE. However a later trans and overdrive wouldn't be any problem.
     
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  6. Squirrel is one of those rare guys that can make stuff work when nobody else could. I think his Y block had the common internal leaking cam bearing that causes the rockers to not oil properly. I think He mentioned something about a wider cam bearing?
     
    Clay Belt likes this.
  7. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    Keep the Y and rebuild it....
     
    egads likes this.
  8. Gavin Tittle
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 272

    Gavin Tittle
    Member

    Just keep in mind, some of those valves were open, which means the cylinders were exposed to the desert for a VERY long time. There's more going wrong in that motor from a machinist perspective that I could recount in a timely manner. I would pull the heads, your gonna have to in the first place to break loose and refurbish the valve train, and it will let you see what going on with the holes
     
    Hot Rods Ta Hell and zzford like this.
  9. You mentioned the engine turns free. Ive learned that a good tight engine will stick with the slightest amount of setting. a old worn loose engine will remain free turning.
     
    Clay Belt likes this.
  10. A common problem and with no history you really don't know what you are in for. You could try to get it running as is but as also was said that carb is no picnic either. Just attempt to get it running but keep that aforementioned 302 (298, period correct, kind of) in the wings.
     
    Clay Belt likes this.
  11. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    do you like the engine or the car? Put a SBF or SBC and get down the road.
     
    zzford likes this.
  12. You might want to follow Dana Barlow and see his T block thread,he has been a Y block fan for many years. HRP
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  13. Whichever you choose, Y-block or SBF, you're going to rebuild it to be reliable. So you need to
    pull the original Y anyway. Tear it down, see what's what, go to y-block forum and ask questions. A 302 is lighter and can probably get more hp for the same amount of $ as rebuilding the Y. I have a 292 in the coupster and get a lot of questions about it. Goes pretty good too. John Mummert's website has a bunch of which are the best Ford parts to use. Get valve adjusting screws from the Smith Bros in Oregon. John's were too soft. Speedway has some y-block stuff too. But I like something different anyway.
    Good luck!
    RB
     
    j-jock likes this.
  14. If you spend a bit of time looking there are plenty of good used engines and transmissions that can be bought for a fraction of the cost of rebuilding your Y block and cast iron automatic. Like i stated before that transmission is as old as the engine and is the same unknown condition. I usually buy a entire vehicle to just get the engine and trans. Look on craigs list and look in the facebook market place and online yard sale.
     
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  15. NAES
    Joined: Dec 24, 2008
    Posts: 491

    NAES
    Member

    Wow thanks for the replies everyone! I think sending the motor down the road makes the most sense. I have a stock 302 in pieces that has been freshly machined along with an AOD trans and an explorer rear end that could easily be used in place of the Y-block.

    I agree that every single thing on this car needs to be addressed so keeping things simpl(ish) and withing a reasonable budget makes the most sense.

    I'll pull the motor this weekend so if anyone in Socal wants it, let me know! Lol

    NAES

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Pull the motor and disassemble it. If there's no rust pitting or ridge in the top of the cylinders, a quicky rebuild (rings, bearings, gaskets) in keeping with your 'lo-buck' ideal should be viable. I'll agree with Wolf, the trans will probably need a rebuild.
     
  17. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    A 312 would be any easy replacement.
     
  18. Sky Six
    Joined: Mar 15, 2018
    Posts: 9,480

    Sky Six
    Member
    from Arizona

    I have a 292/2bbl. I have a lot of time and some bucks into it. Its cool that its the original engine and its got torque up the kazoo BUT you need a lot of knowledge and bucks and you (like me) wonder if its going to go south at any moment. Conversely, the small block will be modern, fairly reliable, and sort of reasonable on the wallet.
    Either way, be a typical hot rodder and do what you think is right and find a way to pay for it.
     
    zzford likes this.
  19. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    You never know about a cars history. What I see is a car that possibly had some chrome valve covers and a chrome air cleaner that some one took off the car while it was sitting. Did it many times while I was looking for hot rod stuff in salvage yards. Don’t know your level of skill, but swaping an engine ,that was never in a chassis, almost always tends to be harder than it first looks. But doable. Transmission, yep, problaly going need a rebuild, but if it was mine.... I’d start the y block before I took it out , but that’s just me. I like y blocks, the very first engine I helped my dad rebuild in 1966 was a y block,still have that 312. Bones
     
  20. Back in the mid 60,s I bought a 56 ford htp that had a supposed to be souped up Y block 312 and a automatic without any reverse gear. I swapped it to a standard shift. and fiddled with the tea pot carb. and never could get the engine to run correctly. and the rockers weren't oiling and the oil indicator light stayed on when idling. and the rear main seal leaked. So I removed the engine. Tore it down and was going to overhaul it was a 292 bored .040 and the deck was bad and had the head gaskets blew between two cyls on each bank. so I bolted it back together and reattached the automatic trans. My mother had a former police car 59 ford with a 352 interceptor and the auto trans was shot. So I stole the engine and cruseomatic and replaced it with my boat anchor Y block and cut the hood release cable. I found the stick parts and put it in the 56. promptly blew the rear end. So swapped with the 59. the 300 gears where too tall. So I swapped for the 411 from a parked 58 ford truck. And I had a pretty fast car. I gave the 327,s a hard race. and there wasn't any Y blocks that could hold it a light to run by. I still have the bored out 292 and tea pot carb. I also still have the 352 interceptor it has solid lifters and adjustable rocker arms.
     
  21. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I think I would take the heads off and check inside. If the cylinders are not rusted out or worn out I would be tempted to overhaul the motor and I don't even like Y blocks. If the cylinders are shot, crankshaft chewed etc I would probably put in a late model engine like an OHC 4.6 Crown Vic or a Lincoln Mark depending what I could find.

    In other words original or the newest I can get. I don't think I would piss around with a 30 or 40 year old obsolete engine unless it was original to the car.
     
  22. I am a Chevy guy, but I have swapped a couple of Y blocks, 292 and 312, into Fords, and with the exception of the obvious shortcoming of the top oiling, they are good engines. I would pull the engine, strip it, and see how worn it is and whether the contamination accrued from sitting has done more damage.
    If it is salvageable, I would rebuild it, and either convert to a C4 or a stick.
    To me, this would be the least expensive way to get mobile rather than doing a swap. Swaps, unless it is an engine that was optioned for the car you are working on, can bring up all manner of clearance issues that can end up being time consuming or costly.
    The 302 would probably be the easier swap, but if I remember correctly you may need to find a forward sump oil pan, as well as the front sump pickup. If you need a rear sump pan, you will need to find a truck pan. I always bought a donor car with the engine, because there were always other parts that were needed from the donor that would have taken a lot of time to find.
    It all depends on what you want in the end. If you just want a runner, the original or replacement Y block will probably be the least expensive way to go.
    Bob
     
  23. The Y-block is an easy engine to work on and I would assume it wouldn't cost any more to rebuild than a 302 if you're doing the assembly yourself. There are also more carb options than the fire-pot especially if you get a 57 or 58 4bbl manifold. You'll also be better off getting a 57 - 64 292 distributor for it as well.
    There's also lots of great ideas at y-blocksforever.com.
     
  24. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Your car and obviously your choice.

    There has been some unfortunate things said about the Y-block and the haystack Holley carbs.

    Personal experience: my very first car was a 1956 Ford with 292, auto trans, and a haystack Holley. This car was acquired with a LOT of miles at my age of 14. The haystack Holley was the very FIRST carb I ever rebuilt (and at age 14). After the rebuild (of the carb, not the engine) I drove the Ford about 200k mostly trouble-free miles. And the "troublesome" haystack Holley.........the only issue was its love for each new filling station we approached ;)

    So if the car is reliable as a first car for a kid, how bad can it be?

    Yes, technology HAS improved.

    Again, your choice, but would suggest at least determining the condition of what you have prior to a change.

    Jon.
     
    warhorseracing likes this.
  25. Time for a Small Block Chevrolet!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  26. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    I would pull it, clean it up and see what I had. Then you can make a much more informed decision.
    Running Y blocks and FEs (mostly 352s) can be found pretty reasonlble if you look. Most have transmissions with them especially from 50-60s Ford truck folks who "modify".
    Running small blocks and Windsors can be found too.
    Going back with a Y block and the Mercomatic means no fabrication to the car and no drive train issues.
    There is a lot of choices with advantages and pitfalls for what ever you choose.
     
    carbking likes this.
  27. Years ago my wife's grandfather who worked for Ford had a 56 Fairlane HT. He kept a fire extinguisher inside the car attached to the transmission hump. I didn't think to ask why he did then but I'm sure I know now. In 1973 he traded it for a then new Grand Torino. Too bad. Some many years later I inherited the GT. I wish he had held on to the Fairlane.
    I had a carb fire in mine but quick action prevented it from causing any serious damage. After an almost second incident prompted me to ditch the fire pot for good. I'm sure the fuel we have is to blame even though the second time was with supposed "ethanol free" fuel.
     
  28. My mother drove a pink and white 56 4 door htp. had the tea pot carb. and this was in 62. and there was a burnt spot on the hood. she kept a pillow soaking in a bucket of water to extinguish the fires. everyone blamed it on bad valves. my dad and older brother pulled the heads and the valves where good. It never ran again. I was 11 at the time. I now suspect the fires where caused by a combination of a lean fuel condition and the dual diaphragm carb & dist. Now something I never thought about earlier. The OP.s trans isn't a fordomatic. its the Mercury version. And they are not the same exact trans. Finding parts to rebuild that merc trans would be difficult.
     
  29. can't beat the sound of a Y block
     
  30. My experience with the Holley 'teapot' carb is that the majority of leaking/fire issues can be traced to the brass screw-in plug in the float bowl above the carb secondaries. This plug has to be TIGHT; just tightening it with a screwdriver by hand won't do it. I finally got mine to stop leaking only after I used the largest straight-blade driver I owned (with a square shank) with a wrench applied to the shank. You have to tighten it until it 'squeaks'...
     

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