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Technical Just read a interesting article in Mopar Collectors Guide

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Wedgehead426, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Wedgehead426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2013
    Posts: 114

    Wedgehead426
    Member

    Is everyone aware of the 2014 Renewable Fuels Standard? I had read a little about what crap E-85 was and how harmful it is to our engines. But had no idea that the EPA intended to make its use mandatory, much like they did with un-leaded fuel 30 years ago. We got around that problem and found a solution, but I don't think that its going to be that easy this time around. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I can't afford to replace a 1964 Dodge Polara, a 1971 C-10, a 1983 Grumman Step Van, a 2006 Dodge Ram, a 2009 Chrysler Aspen, a Ranger Bass Boat, a John Deere Tractor, and all the other assorted small engines (mowers, weed wackers, chain saws, generators) around my house because of these A-holes, nor can I afford to replace the engines with some flex fuel crap motors. Is anyone aware of anybody working on a solution to this shit? If this article is to be believed, and I believe it until I read differently, I don't understand why the people in this country are not raising hell about this right now. What the hell is going on, and why is no one talking about it? What do you guys think? Is it true? Or is it BS and I am just over reacting?
     
  2. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    I'm seriously not trying to be a smart ass, but people have been bitching about this for decades. It's definitely nothing new. Is that an older article?
     
  3. You think that's bad, you should see what they are doing to AVGAS
     
  4. Wedgehead426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2013
    Posts: 114

    Wedgehead426
    Member

    June 2014, the article says the rule takes effect this year.
     

  5. Wedgehead426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2013
    Posts: 114

    Wedgehead426
    Member

    Yeah, I hear you, and know about what crap 100LL and 91/96 UL are. I have been in aviation long enough to know what 115/145 was. BUT....I don't have to fly to get to work. I do have to drive.
     
  6. throw a blower or turbo on your car it will love the stuff. have fun while you can. just looking at the bright side. my son is a automotive engineer. he says you will be lucky to find a gas station in ten years. battery technology is here and making big progress.
     
  7. Wedgehead426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2013
    Posts: 114

    Wedgehead426
    Member

    racer-x this doesnt make me feel any better about this.:mad:
     
  8. The sky is not falling. I am going through about 30 years of magazines right now. What to I find common? About once every decade the magazines jump on this same paranoia. Man, if things were as bad now as predicted in the 70s or 80s we should be floating to work on communal conveyor belts!
     
  9. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    I don't claim to know all the details but I strongly suspect it is a bunch of BS. For one thing, I am 100% sure there is no way that much E-85 can be produced even if everyone wanted it.
     
  10. True, our infrastructure is not set up for it.
     
  11. Here in south east wisconsin we have been forced to use blended fuels for years. The u.s. produces more corn than it consumes. I could see it in the future that everyone is forced to use it in some form. Soon the only thing you will need gas for will be your lawn mower it will all be electric powered. Im not happy either.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,898

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  13. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,365

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Look at it this way : If this trend continues and the Arabs keep producing petroleum (what other source of income do they have?), We should be able to buy gas for our cars for 29.9 per gallon again.

    Seriously, what the MSRA has accomplished in Minnesota in regards to "non-oxygenated" fuel is phenomenal. Don't get mad; get organized and work the legislature, like they did.
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,898

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For clarity, most of our fuel comes from a combination of domestic sources, Canada, and Venezuela. It is sold on the open, global market, and non-US consumers are near, or now the dominant market.

    Let's keep this to tuning, and adapting. Politics are not welcome on this board.
     
  15. I'm not trying to talk shit...... but I call bull shit on that one....The average age of a vehicle on the road is about 12 years old. That means in 10 years 2012 vehicles will be the average manufacture year of used cars....not a lot of non gas vehicle's available in that year range. Nor will the batteries on the ones that were made still be functional. I'm already replacing batteries on less than 10 year old prius' s....A few more years and those won't even be economical to fix and those cars will be crushed.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,898

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    X2. I keep hearing the same thing, and explain why it is wrong....
     
  17. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    I have been dealing with the mixed gases for years ( Chicago has had the 10% rule since the 1980's ) , all I do is adapt the car , no crappy rusted steel lines , all the lines are stainless and viton/neoprene/ nitrile ( I have replaced more rusted out brake lines on cars than fuel lines ) and the old steel lined cars ussually have a problem from external rust than internal rust , and also keeping flexable rubber to a minimum , its a flexable connection and only supposed to be a foot long at max , not to be run from the tank to the engine ! , most of the tanks I washed out to get rid of the crap that the old gas let lay behind (varnish and dirt) several are new ones , most gasket kits for carbs now days are ethanol /methanol compatable , and when I store the car/toy, I drain the tank .and new filters go on every season . its people being lazy or cheap is why there cars mess up with these fuels . if your think a 50 year old fuel pump is going to last forever think again ..specially if it was only designed by the oem to last 10 years/100K miles initially and in the 1950's you were lucky to see that number ! ,

    as with ethanol being bad , heck I rather that than when they used methanol ( which they used for a long time till ethanol got cheap and was causing all the problems ) , that stuff ate aluminum like a hungry fat kid eats donuts ... and there is other additives that also eat and melt the items besides ethanol , like toluene , xylene , hexane , MBTE all oxygenates and octane number boosters .

    as for tuning , yes you have to enrichen the jets a little bit ( 1-3 numbers ) and open the needle valves a touch more for more fuel , add a little timing . but thats all part of tuning and was a weekly /monthly thing back when these cars were made . if you want to get in and go then a older car is not for you you should then sell your car and go to the dealer and buy a modern one .

    like with the 50 I have , I am adapting it to run with the new fuels , the old tank has been dropped and going to be caustic cleaned and steamed , all the lines are going to be stainless , and the carb/fuel pump is already set up for e fuels . and the nice thing is I can turn up the timing and make more torque from the added alcohol too .
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,898

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With E10 shoot for 14.2:1, instead of 14.7:1, or you will be a tick over 4% lean.
     
  19. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    The hell with conveyor belts, I'm waiting for the jet packs. WHERE THE HELL ARE THE JET PACKS!?

    As for the fuel for my cars? I'm using as much as I can, as fast as I can. E-85 and an additive works for me. If the shit hits the fan, so be it. This crap about E-85 pops up about 6 times a year and the discussions solve nothing. Just rehashing the same crap.

    When oil for gasoline runs out, which will probably not be in my life time, the oil companies will have released the battery technology they have hidden away and hot rodders will have a cleaner way to go fast. It's too late to cry about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  20. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    I want my hoverboard and Mr fusion ! ( you can see what era I am from :D

    )

    one of my freinds says it best , you can adapt and drive or not adapt and die ..

    we should feel lucky they don't make us comply with the air quality standards of new cars , think e gas is bad . try to adapt a EGR and a cat to a old banger motor and try to make it run with the low compression and cooling problems .
     
  21. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    My biggest concern is what will happen to corn prices if this all goes through. Usually, a side of corn is the same price as french fries, mashed potatoes, or cole slaw. But if this E85 thing takes off, we could all be paying more for our corn than we pay for our steak. Soon, there won't be steakhouses - there will be cornhouses where you can order a side of steak if you like.
     
  22. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    "my son is a automotive engineer. he says you will be lucky to find a gas station in ten years. battery technology is here and making big progress."

    Completely true. But what else is true is all those batteries will be powering Jet-Paks, not cars. Yes, some 50 years after Gilligan first flew high over his island, we too will be able to realize one of man's two greatest dreams* - Jet Pak flight.



    *The other being a long bout of intercourse with Emmy Rossum
     
  23. I have said this before but the future is cellulosic based. Meaning grass, logging scraps any carbon based plant. They are already using our logging waste out here to produce the stuff. This is waste that typically gets burned in slash piles during the winter months.
     
  24. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    there is a big difference in corns used for fuel vs what we eat , field/feed corn is high in starch , not like the corn you eat with a side of beef , ( don't believe me ask for a ear of it this summer from a farmer and boil it up and have a bite or two ) and after the corn is distilled they do feed it to the cows and the cows actually can get more nutrients from it than before . as for prices well thats from speculators and the market , they drive the price up on everything from milk to corn to beef . our country has more excess in grains than what we know what to do with , for many years when I lived on the farm with my grandparents we kept our corn in our own bins on the property as the grain elevator in town ran out of room and was storing it outside in piles , 1-3 million bushel piles . and ours was a small coop , freinds of mine who live in these areas are getting paid by the gov't ( land banking ) not to grow any grain on there land as there is such a surplus . but they are now turning down the gov't land bank money , and no tilling the corn in and taking it to the distillery , then buying the waste wet or dry distillers grain for feedstock for there animals at cheap prices.

    one of my freinds burns the distillers ends for heat in the winter , stuff stinks but burns real hot and is cheaper than propane .
     
  25. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 455

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Recheck your source because I am pretty sure they are forcing E15, not E85. Big difference but still can cause issues.
    The current standard is E10.
     
  26. From what I've been reading lately E85 is going to be dead shortly. Somebody is coming to their senses somewhere!
     
  27. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,911

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Remember -
    Everything Mr.Wolf writes in his "Enviro - Masochism" column is THE TRUTH!
    The rest of the Mag Kick's @$$ !

    Drive 'em before it's Illegal...There probably will be a reality show (right after Moonshiners) about us soon...

    T
     
  28. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,766

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I'm surprised they still let us have gas.

    I've been planning to start distilling alcohol to run my cars for years.

    E-100 doesn't seem like a big problem to me.
     
  29. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,351

    George
    Member

    Probably 30% less energy in a gallon of E-100 vs E-0.
     
  30. 1948plymouth
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 109

    1948plymouth
    Member
    from Minnesota

    X2. This is the way I understand it also.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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