The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Stephen Barrett, Nov 4, 2019.
BRASS nuts? I may be wrong but I doubt you can get the correct torque with brass nuts
Be sure to heed the warning re the ez outs. That stud snapped because it is seized in the hole. Once you pull the head you might be able to get it out by welding on it. The actual method has been discussed before and there are youtube videos on it.
Ugh.. drilling out studs is never fun. My track record with ez-outs is dismal at best. Pull the heads and see how many more you find. My brother has a raft of die bushings and holders he uses to drill out studs, his track record is quite good. Got any friends that work in an aircraft shop?
Standard heli-coils for the spark plug holes should be fine. See how beat up the stud hole is before you open it up for an insert. McMaster Carr has Keen-serts which I use a lot to fix tooling at work, mainly in aluminum. Heli-coil makes an insert system we use as well, it has an outer and inner insert for holes that are real problem children.
The guy that put that stud in with silicon had extremely LARGE BRASS NUTS.
There are two good options that I have used. If there is a bit of the stud protruding from the surface, welding a washer to the stud, and then a nut to the washer works fairly well. The two heating and cooling cycles from welding go far towards breaking the bond between stud and block, and the nut gives you something to put a wrench on to back the stud out. The other option is drilling, and @kidcampbell71 included a link in reply #29 on page one of this thread. There are several thousand YouTube videos with step by step instructions for both methods, just do a search on "removing a broken stud".
The high tech option is EDM (electrical discharge machining) which uses an electric spark to erode away the stud. Unless you're Jay Leno, this requires a trip to a machine shop that has the proper equipment.
That prvious owner is a real Douche for screwing you like that. I seen a lot of half assed repairs but this takes the cake.
Regular heli-coil won't leave much surface for the spark plugs to seal.
Thanks for the link to your thread. I got a lot of good info from it.
That's great advice. I'll definitely be doing that. The head will make a great guide. Thank you.
Regular heli-coils are fine in cylinder heads. I have installed many with no trouble.
Looks to be a "road-side repair".
Why would you want to drill the stud out with the head still on? Doesn't make sense. Take the head off (15 minutes) and first attempt to unscrew the remains with a stud remover and some heat. Or grab it with visegrips and work it back and forth . Failing that, cut it flush and drill from there.
I do plan on taking the head off. I just like the advice I got about using the hole in the head as a guide for a center punch and doing that before I take it off. I have to take off the other one also to fix the treads on the spark plug holes. I'll be doing all the plug hole since I'm in there. Now I have to decide if I want to replace all the head studs. I think I do but haven't made up my mind. Also if I do should I use ARP studs or stock. The difference in price is huge but I don't want to skimp on it.
I don't think so but definitely fixed like one.
I here you. Just trying to move forward at this point.
I just want to thank everyone for all the help. This is exactly why I became a member. As much of a bummer this is I am still having fun.
"I'm not to worried about sketchy shit he may have done. Most of the car is very well built. I think it was more a moment of laziness. Although disappointing I'm still very happy with the car over all."
I would be skeptical about that. People tend to have one standard of workmanship. Someone who assembled the rest of the car with careful attention to safety and care would not do the bodge on the engine shown here.
An advantage of using a Helicoil is that it has a smaller OD than a Keen-sert, so if it did fail (which in my experience, doesn't happen) then there is still material enough to drill and tap for the Keen-sert.
Using the head as an alignment jig for drilling the remains of the stud may not be the best since the hole could be a little off from the stud hole, due to manufacturing tolerances. That's why the head holes are a bit larger, and why later engines use alignment dowels.
Finally, the thread on this stud doesn't look like a proper Flathead stud thread (7/16" NC, as I recall):
Edit: Maybe the stud was coarse thread in the block, fine on the nut end?
^^ They are normally.
Working my way backwards from your comments. It is the correct stud. I am using the head to align a center punch. I don't plan on drilling it with the head on. I didn't know anything about Keen-sert but someone did recommend Timesert kit but price is very high on those. Plus people have said they have good luck with Heli-coil but I haven't made up my mind yet. As far as being skeptical I alway am I just don't worry about it much. Like people say if you want something done right do it yourself. Believe me I am not thrilled about this but I don't think I've ever bought a car that I didn't find stupid shit that I had to fix. As far as safety I've done a bunch to it to make it safer. I spent a ton on new brakes all around and I mean everything. Also did a a lot on the suspension. When I got this I knew what I was getting into. I would rather work with this than try to build one from scratch. I looked at a bunch of total P.O.S. rat rods and projects before I got this car. That's why I'm still happy with it over all.
You're right they aren't brass they are grade8 I just thought they were brass when I saw the gold color.
With respect, Stephen, no flathead studs are threaded all the way up. Or have I misunderstood what you are saying.
Pulled the head yet?
Thanks. That's looking like a good option and more afFORDable.
I haven't pulled them yet but the stud isn't threaded all the way up. There is a smooth collar between the coarse treads and the fine threads. The coarse threads are still in the block. If you look close you'll see the shoulder on the stud. The round end is silicone it's actually a straight break right at the first thread.
Previous owner is a thief...unless he gave to you
If the timesert kit is over budget, maybe find a machine shop that has the kit and farm the job out. Personally, I hate hell-a- coils. YMMV.
Sad that there are so many automotive engineers walking among us and don’t even know it . Just thing how much money this fool could of saved Henry Ford by explaining to him that this threaded hole , stud and nut was not needed anyway ! What is the sellers name Pvt . Pyle ?
I can see the timesert kits are much better but why do you hate the hell-a-coils? Also what does ''YMMV'' mean?
Thanks that makes me feel much better.
Separate names with a comma.