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Hot Rods Just Curious... Will A Top Notch Show Car Make Money?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fordor Ron, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,052

    wicarnut
    Member

    IMO, The Pro/Name builders are the only men making the money on theses high buck beautiful pieces of art, the man that wrote the check does not do this to make money, it's all about the passion and ego trip that goes with being #1. willys36 is the exception to this, from reading his posts as he did build/sold a winner, made a profit, But his skills, talent, etc. are the exception also. I have a shirttail relative that paid a Pro to finish his brothers dream build 36 Ford coupe, sadly Ed past from cancer mid build, so Bill took it upon himself to have it finished, ( successful/wealthy businessmen ) I'm told 1/2 a million + was spent, BEAUTIFUL CAR ! ! !, car was shown 2X when completed, now 5 years or so, sitting in a controlled garage, covered, hasn't been moved or started. Ed was a friend/Good man and a lifelong die hard car guy, I'm sure he's watching down and saying/screaming "Drive the dam thing"
     
  2. Very enlightening thread. Although it will never lessen the respect and appreciation I have for the guys that build their cars, We all have to realize the checkwriters play a huge part in not only keeping this hobby of ours going, but give us so many of the masterpieces that would never have happened. After reading this thread, I for one, promise I'll be more respectful of those checkwriters!
     
  3. GasserTodd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 499

    GasserTodd
    Member

    Indeed, to each his own.

    As one of those guys who dreams about what he wants, but has bugger all skills to actually build anything, I find writing cheques to those who can, works out really well, both for me and for the shop who collects the cheque and for the employees who get paid that week.

    You know, I made some dollars each year doing finance and accounting, but I dont think that folk who cant do their own financing and accounting arent "Real Business People"

    And I make some more dollars each year owning a residential facility for those who have suffered traumatic brain injuries. We look after people who cant live at home, but I dont think that means that the families who cant care for their loved ones at home anymore arent "Real Family People"

    We all have different skills, but theres no real need to put down those whose skills are different to your own. Have a great day.
     
  4. Dogpatchcustoms
    Joined: Nov 9, 2019
    Posts: 19

    Dogpatchcustoms
    Member

    Plugging away on mine just as another was shown at sema
     

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  5. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,212

    Elcohaulic

    Its all about the buzz..... These cars and anything about them release endorphin, oxytocin, serotonin, and dopamine in our brains that get us high...

    I was at a antique train show yesterday, I spotted a AMT Craftsman Series 57 Thunderbird. It took me back to my childhood and I was high for a few moments. I remember thinking to myself, I am actually high right now..
     

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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  6. I actually made money on my Mysterion clone. I never keep track of what I spend on a project. I don't care what it costs, it is my therapy. But like Moriarity, I do every possible thing myself. The only things I didn't do on this car was the actual chrome plating and blowing the bubble top in my mold. I figure I would be in my shop doing something anyway so my time isn't valued.

    Building this car was a bucket list thing I have wanted to do for at least 50 years. the proceeds from the sale paid off our mortgage so I retired absolutely debt free in January this year. I was extremely lucky; it was the right car, at the right auction with the right bidders (it takes 2 to make an auction!!). I am extremely happy with Stahls museum in Michigan as its final home. I have no heartburn selling it, the drive was to build it, had no idea what to do with it after that.
    01-mysterion-big-daddy-roth.jpg 08-mysterion-big-daddy-roth.jpg 03-mysterion-big-daddy-roth.jpg
    10-1-2019.jpg
     
  7. ^^^ Excellent!
     
    Ron Funkhouser likes this.
  8. I know one guy with an OT GM car, he has well over $100k in the car, it gets trailered everywhere (to shows...) and he hardly drives it. I mentioned here I saw a '34 Ford glass coupe for sale, soup to nuts, SBC with a blower, sick paint, chromed everything and he was asking $45k for the car. Think 30-50¢ on the buck when the time comes to sell a finished car. Unless the market has a big draw for that car.

    One guy I know of, he does 4 or 5 cars a year, all Chevelles of a certain range. Built to order, largely factory stock, any color and interior of your choice, etc. Those go for $150k each. He follows a proven recipe, so I'd say he makes a buck on them.
     
    weps likes this.
  9. abc123
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 451

    abc123
    Member

    and

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    from Pittsburgh, Pa.

    Its all about the buzz..... These cars and anything about them release endorphin, oxytocin, serotonin, and dopamine in our brains that get us high...

    I was at a antique train show yesterday, I spotted a AMT Craftsman Series 57 Thunderbird. It took me back to my childhood and I was high for a few moments. I remember thinking to myself, I am actually high right now..


    - - -
    I go straight to building models. After all, who would pay for (or want to have) something like a 3-wheeled '60 Ford in real life? I can have my goofy idea and the experience of making it without the expense or space needed for a 1:1.

    Interested? See what others are doing at:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sunday-models.869868/
    and
    http://trakinscale.proboards.com/
    (Traditional Rods And Kustoms In Scale forum).
     
    Dogpatchcustoms likes this.
  10. 100K on a build is nothing . With the talent and time spent on a show car I would think that these builds are in excess of 250K to get started. The owners of these cars have deep pockets and are not worried about spending that kind of cash. I bet they have these cars tied to their financial portfolio as a tax deduction.
    Vic
     
  11. MIKE STEWART
    Joined: Aug 23, 2016
    Posts: 273

    MIKE STEWART

    I have been involved in Hot Rods my entire life - I am 57 years old. My Dad bought his first 1940 Ford when he was 16 years old in 1956. He was a school treacher and shade tree mechanic. When I graduated from college - accounting degree, I wanted my own 1939/1940 Ford Coupe. I realized that I really could not afford to purchase one - so I enrolled at a commuinity college that taught body work. During the day I worked in a CPA firm and at nights - took classes at the community college. My Dad had a rusted out parts car - 1939 Ford Coupe - this became my class project and the instructor was very supportive to teach me how to build this rust bucket.

    Moved to a larger city in a few years and visited some professional shops and did some free lance sheet metal work for them to help pay for my car's materials. My 1939 Ford was 100% build my me over about 3.5 years. Fast forward 25 years - I have worked for a Ford and Toyota Dealership group and the owner (boss) had me help him contact Bobby Alloway to build a 1940 Ford Coupe that took about 4 years to build. Both the owner and myself made an educated guess on the build cost for the 1940 Ford. This build took 2 times the amount of our original estimate. My boss currently has a 1951 Ford Victoria in Bobby Alloway's shop - might make SEMA for 2020 - not sure. I have a detail spreadsheet for both cars and yes I know to the penny each build cost for the 1940 and 1951 Fords. The top shelf professional build cars are expense with the labor cost being the largest single item. Really - if most of us home builders added $20 per hour for our labor and wrote a check for this cost - we would be hard pressed to afford our own cars. My Dad had the forsight to keep his high school 1939 Ford that was never totally finished because home - family and life committments took priority. I have had exposure to some of the top builders in our hobby or industry. They were very receptive to me as a home builder with advice and tech help, especially Bobby Alloway and his employees. All of us pro builders and home guys need to bring in the next generation of hot rod owner. My 19 year old son helps turn wrenches and wants to learn more - most of his friends the same age do not. I am glad to have the health and a few coins to spend on my 1939 / 1940 Fords I have collected and driven over the last 30 years. Seems like only yeaterday I would beg my Dad to crank up his 1939 Ford with the 327 soild lift 30/30 cam, Muncie 4 speed and Columbia 2 speed rear end to sneek it on the road in the 1970's. This car is street legal to drive and me and my son are getting closer to finising this car project that was purchased in 1959. Yes Rob knows what a Columbia 2 speed rear end is and thinks only girls drive cars with automatic transmissions. both 1939 Fords.jpg
     
    Just Gary, weps, Fordors and 2 others like this.
  12. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,795

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A friend recently bought an AMBR contender from just a few years ago. After the show it was for sale asking $200-225. The guy turned down $175. 2 years later my friend bought it for less than 1/3 of that. Only one making anything on it was the builder.
     
  13. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    I bought a 63 Impala that was under going a nut & bolt frame off restoration for 9 years to finish and resell. The owner said he had already 90K in it. Not too sure about the 90K claim but finished the car and tried to sell it. It took almost a year to sell it for what I was happy with. Fortunately I bought it for a fair price and made a profit on the deal but I'm here to tell you it sold for a lot less then 90K. Building a high dollar car to sell is to me a losing proposition. Your market share is too small and parts are too exspensive. I do however believe you can make money building and selling something decent thats ruinnning and driving in the 20-25K range. Attached is a picture of the 63 Impala. IMG_0642.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  14. egmonton
    Joined: Feb 28, 2023
    Posts: 2

    egmonton

    I get you, man. It's not very promising
     
  15. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,717

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    A show winning car can be built for less than it could sell for, but it requires a huge investment in time by the builder/owner. You can't pay someone to do much on the build and not end up upside down if you decide to sell later.
    My two cars are not top end show cars but my old Austin Gasser won first place in the Nostalgia Hotrod Class at the Portland roadster Show back in 2013, and I built it all in my one car shop for under $10k, including the $1800 original purchase price. That's actually twice as much money in it as I have in my '39 Chev coupe build, which has surprisingly won numerous trophies too.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Hombre and Tickety Boo like this.
  16. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 6,138

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Think it's expensive to pay a quality shop to do work? Have a cheap shop do it instead. Then not only will you pay the cheap shop to do it, you'll also pay the good shop to do it after the cheap shop fucks it up the first time.

    This was a lesson I've learned the hard way, and one I'm still learning. This lesson has cost me the better part of the last 3 years of time spent working on cars and tens of thousands of dollars. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for.

    I'm not going to say there is no way to make money on show cars, but if there is one, I haven't found it yet. This thing of ours is a labor of love and driven by passion. It's also a completely frivolous expenditure for those of us blessed enough to have the disposable income. But the same premise applies to cars as it does most anything else, whether it be a kitchen remodel or a new suit; custom is expensive. Buying ready-made is always cheaper. There are plenty of great, completed cars to be had out there, almost all of which could be had in their current condition for less than it would cost to build them from a project into their current condition. Even if you are a capable builder with tools and resources, parts alone would likely equal that, never accounting for the cost of your time, which is perhaps the largest expense of all.

    But the issue is that even though ready-made, or completed cars are the substantially better value, their high price is also often a barrier to entry. A much smaller percentage of the population has $40K of screw-around money laying around to blow on a recreational car they don't really need than the percentage of people that have $10K, even if the better value is buying the done car. It's almost like how so many people can eat a $2000 a month rent payment but can't buy a house, even though the mortgage would be the same or cheaper every month.

    Building a car from scratch is, in a weird way, almost like financing the finished car. You pay for it in installments, little by little. I took some heat for this in another thread where the poster was considering pulling a Corvair Spyder out of a field and restoring it. I suggested that instead of doing that, that he should consider getting a used car loan for collector vehicle and financing one that was already finished in a private sale. Over the course of the loan, the buyer would eat about $4k in interest, which frankly would pale in comparison to the loss realized when he spends $30k to restore a car that's worth $18, not factoring in the time to do it. Restoring the car would instill a sense of pride and self-satisfaction, but is also a poor fiscal decision.

    Of course, for some it's the journey, not the destination. I get that. For some, the journey has been long enough. Just pay and get it done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2023
    rod1 likes this.
  17. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 2,059

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    I remmember going to the Portland Roadster show as a kid in the mid 60's and one of the featured show cars didn't have any wiring, carburator linkage or brake lines.
     
  18. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,795

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think it’s apiece of cake to make money on a top tier car. Build it for a cool million $$$$$, then get the show promoters to give you 500-750K $$$$ to show it. You only need to do it 2 times….easy-peasy…:rolleyes:
     
  19. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 2,059

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    I was at sema several years ago and and I wondered over to the PPG paint booth and Chip Foose was there talking to a small groupe of people. There was a 190 sl Mercedes on display that caught my eye.
    While looking at the car, a gentleman came over and started talking to me. Turns out the Mercedes belonged to him. He said that Foose designed and built the car. Not only did he have to find the 190 sl , they purchesed a brand new Mercedes as a donor car for the drive train. The build was flawless and I could see the cost easily going over half a million.
     
  20. WiredSpider
    Joined: Dec 29, 2012
    Posts: 1,258

    WiredSpider
    Member

    My ex boss had a car built by a name shop to win the AMBR and the Ridler award at Detroit. It achieved that but at the cost of 1.5 million it should.A famous pot smoking rapper offered him 1 million for it shortly after that but he didn’t take it. Now it sits in the showroom of his shop like a toy. It is a lot of money to stroke his ego. I don’t think you would have any better luck selling a home built car and coming out ahead with the costs of paint, upholstery and chrome. You need to be doing it for the love of it.sorry for the rant
     

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