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Hot Rods Just Another 5-Window Build Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TomT, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. More frame work updates - first, Jack installed the new (old) frame horns I actually got from him a while back ....
    IMG_20160913_093425095[1].jpg
    IMG_20160913_093708641[1].jpg
    Some cleanup yet to do but the front of the frame is nearly done. Then it was on to the rear C-notches ...
    IMG_20160913_093454316[1].jpg
    IMG_20160913_093501232[1].jpg
    IMG_20160913_102539750[1].jpg
    The trim out to the back side is for the 35-36 rear radius rod clearance because I am using the shorter 40 Ford front spring and there is some frame rail interference without it ....
    IMG_20160913_104609586[1].jpg
    After a bit more cleanup the rear frame mods are now done. I then cut out some front boxing plates from a template Jack made ....
    IMG_20160913_165307057[1].jpg
    Finally, I received the clutch disk I have been waiting for and I like the way the center hub is moved forward towards the tranny, in essence helping to solve my problem. I will put things together tomorrow and see how much needs to be shaved off the adapter to resolve it ....
    IMG_20160913_222202480[1].jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    kidcampbell71 and D-Russ like this.
  2. Further updates - Jack now has the rear radius rods in place ....
    IMG_20160916_095944887_HDR[1].jpg
    On top you see the front boxing plates and the 3/4" tubing to run wires on each side ....
    IMG_20160916_100003809[1].jpg
    IMG_20160916_100017875[1].jpg
    IMG_20160916_100026458[1].jpg

    Sorry but I have no pics of the front boxing plates installed - they are inset about 3/4". I have picked up the mock up block and put together the motor and trans, motor mounts, tranny mount, exhaust manifolds, firewall, radiator and set everything in place, weld up the motor and steering box mountings, tranny mount, and trim the center mount plate of the rear radius rods for ease of tranny removal, and set the motor/rear angles.

    To say I am excited as hell is an understatement. I could not have done all that Jack is doing in the short time he has been at it. His frame jig makes everything so much easier not to say anything about his expertice in doing 2 frames ..... thanks Jack ....
     
    kidcampbell71, D-Russ and Just Gary like this.
  3. slinginrods
    Joined: Oct 6, 2008
    Posts: 422

    slinginrods
    Member
    from florida

    This is turning out great. I dream of a 5 window one day. Tell Jack that Chris said hi. I was just over his place a couple of weeks ago. I must've just missed your chassis ,he's a good guy and knows his stuff .
     
  4. Will do, Chris - Jack is a great person and even a better friend .....
     
  5. nailhead terry
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,455

    nailhead terry
    Member

    Looking good those 5 speeds are like gift wrapping a pig I have a 324 olds that I am thinking about dropping in my 32
     
  6. You got that right!
     
  7. Just some additional pics of the frame ....
    IMG_20160920_141151986_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20160920_141217221.jpg
    I also mocked up the motor and trans with the new clutch disk. The center hub in this clutch disk sets 1/16+ inch closer to the tranny so that's good. I will have to shave the adapter 3/8" - you can see the black line and indent in this pic -
    IMG_20160920_093626199_HDR.jpg
    and cut down the old Ford t-out bearing carrier the same amount. It is tough to get a good pic but I like the clearance I have now between the fingers of the p-plate and the t-out bearing.
    IMG_20160920_092602578_HDR.jpg

    Hence, taking off the same 3/8" will keep this distance. That will give me 15/16"+ of bite on the full splines of the tranny main shaft - that is the best I could have hoped for ....
     
    Just Gary and D-Russ like this.
  8. Making progress - Jack had the motor and trans sitting in the frame when I got there. We set up the motor mounts and tacked them in, the steering box is in, and the firewall has been trimmed back for engine clearance. We have the motor as far forward as possible and up enough for the fan to clear the lower radiator water neck ....
    IMG_20160926_095202704_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20160926_110328480_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20160926_110343680_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20160926_110427305_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20160926_135515956_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20160926_143920679.jpg
    IMG_20160926_143929522_HDR.jpg
    On the frame jig, the pinion angle is 4 degrees .... things are moving along now .....
     
  9. Well, we were moving along - some roadblocks popped up today, or shall we say opportunities?
    First, the rear axle housing was bent so we spent some time getting that all put to rights .....
    IMG_20160927_101732021.jpg
    Jack has an empty 9"pumpkin with 2" bushings installed. We installed it on the empty axle housing and a 2" solid bar is slid in. If call goes well, the long bar will go right through and out to the other end. We had a pretty good offset or twist on the passenger side, and the driver side one to a lesser degree. We alternately heat and cooled the affected areas ....

    IMG_20160927_115906847.jpg
    With the bar in, Jack has biscuits with large and small bearing sides that he slips on thecebd yo against the backing plate flange to make sure the bar is properly centered. He then heats up the axle housing and let's it cool naturally so the housing will remain in that configuration once the biscuits and bar are removed.

    Next problems are the brake and clutch pedals ....
    IMG_20160927_094009782_HDR.jpg
    As you can see, the brake pedal will run into the bellhousing due to the Nailhead having the starter on the driver side ...
    IMG_20160927_094020705.jpg
    We are formulating a fix - these pedals are great but not cheap. I only want to do this one time and not have to buy another set ....
    Finally, the cut back of the firewall was not enough for the distributor. We will have to create a pocket for ease of removal and/or to replace the cap, rotor, etc ....
    IMG_20160927_122006565_HDR.jpg
    This pic shows the firewall unbolted on the driver side to create the room needed to install/remove it. More pics to come on this and our other fixes ..... so much for rolling right along! Hey, but that's hot rodding - if was all easy and a piece of cake to "assemble", everyone would be doing it .....
     
  10. Not much more to update you more with but the rear pinion angle has been set. Some more pics.....
    IMG_20161003_100630840_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20161003_100623433.jpg
    I will bring my pumpkin next week to measure for the driveshaft ....
    Some additional pics of what the firewall mods will need to be done ...
    IMG_20161003_100651970.jpg
    IMG_20161003_100701990.jpg
     
  11. So, builds are not without stumbling blocks and here is one for the Buick Nailhead gurus .....

    I removed the intake and lifter valley cover from my '58 364 and I think I have found out why it was put aside. First, it looks like it was rebuilt but I found a little bit of antifreeze in the lifter valley and one bent push rod ....

    IMG_20161008_095800948.jpg
    IMG_20161008_095743882.jpg
    IMG_20161008_095813353.jpg
    So, my thinking is one of two things - it had an antifreeze leak at startup and maybe hydrolocked that one cylinder or that one pushrod was a bit too long? I checked on Rusell Martin's website and there could be a whole bunch of things that could be wrong, especially since for the engine after the fact.

    For the Nailhead gurus, I was going to get another pushrod, make sure the valve is not stuck, remove the rocker arm assembly, make sure it is free, replace the rod, check clearances, then turn it over by hand and see what happens. One way or another I will also install new head gaskets. This is not an sbc and it has as many quirks if not more than a flathead - I am in a learning curve ....

    I will call Rusell Martin but I thought someone here might have some ideas ....

    Thanks in advance for any help you can give ....
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  12. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,355

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    You have a nice build going on here, I would suggest tearing the 364 down if nothing else for peace of mine. I am taking my own advice, bought a rebuilt baby Hemi years ago an I will be tearing it apart for a look see. If you need any 364 motor, heads, etc. I have one cheap! Good luck.
     
  13. Thanks Brigrat, but man that is not what I wanted to hear, just looking for a magic pill if you know what I mean. I will keep your offer in mind, though, and I thank you .......
     
  14. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,355

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Doesn't look like the intake gasket was sealed very well, that could cause antifreeze in valley. Check valve adjustment before pulling heads to see if that caused the bent push rod. If not once the heads are off you should see the smoking gun. I would try and be gentle on taking the heads off so you can inspect head gasket carefully............................................
     
  15. Updates - I removed the heads and found the intake valve was stuck and that is what caused the push rod to bend. Heads are off to my buddies machine shop to be gone over and readied for reinstallation. I will need to clean up the block a little as well ....
    IMG_20161011_191332436_HDR[1].jpg
    IMG_20161011_191344115[1].jpg
    We also worked on the pedals - in my recent post above you saw how the brake and clutch pedals are running into the adapter since the starter is on the driver side. We did some slicing and dicing to get clearance ...
    IMG_20161012_102117551_HDR[1].jpg
    Sorry I do not have a pic of both pedals moved overf and clearing everything, we started working on the firewall on the driver side to make sure things are going to work. We need to install the starter to make sure but things are looking good ....
    IMG_20161012_143959887_HDR[1].jpg
    You can see the pedals in the background in this pic and the firewall pieces installed are on the same plane as the stock front floorboard .... we also removed the exhaust manifold and head to massage the firewall for clearance for both ...
    IMG_20161012_151431830_HDR[1].jpg
    IMG_20161012_144014674_HDR[1].jpg
    We also worked on the passenger side and the result looks really good ....
    IMG_20161012_093309590[1].jpg

    IMG_20161012_093225596[2].jpg
    IMG_20161012_145239791_HDR[1].jpg
    Starting to get excited as I feel I am turning the corner on this build thanks to Jack's help .....
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
    kidcampbell71 and D-Russ like this.
  16. Looking good, Tom. Thanks for posting all the in-process pics.
    Amazing at how many little tweeks are needed for everything to fit together!
     
  17. Thanks, Gary - it's a challenge and I am doing my best to rise to that challenge!
     
  18. More firewall work .... making room for distributor removal .... IMG_20161019_111417407_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20161019_140328868.jpg
    IMG_20161019_140950598.jpg
    IMG_20161019_144608698.jpg
    The Nailhead distributor is short so if you remove the cap first there is easily enough room to slide it out .... need to clean up the welds and begin making the floor pans ...
     
  19. Got the floorpan started. Jack gave me a template from which I made a paper pattern. Then Dave at House of Fab made the template into a pattern his plasma cutter machine could cut out along the lines from the pattern. Here are some pics ....
    IMG_20161024_131606193.jpg
    IMG_20161024_133508488.jpg
    IMG_20161024_133600585.jpg
    IMG_20161024_133851931.jpg

    Before starting I da'ed the metal clean so once plasma cut, I cleaned off the slag and Dave bent it in his brake matching the angle of the metal template.
    IMG_20161024_142214286_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20161024_142155632_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20161024_142952891.jpg
    I will check the new piece against the metal template, trim off whatever needs to be done for a proper fit and place it in the car. I have left enough room to trim out the floor pan to match my engine and trans to then experiment with making a tunnel template.
    After cleaning up the firewall welds I will install both in the body and see how things look. The trimming for the tunnel will wait until I get back to the frame at Jack's ....
    As for the engine, the heads needed a lot more than a cleanup. I have ordered all new valves, springs, keepers, and seals. Rocker shafts are fine. Due to this development, I took the block over to my machine shop to get it checked out. In doing so, a load of antifreeze came out of the oil pan. That, coupled with what Jimmy at the machine shop saw, I am now going to go through the block as well. I need to do it right and since the engine is all torn down anyway, no time like the present ..... I will keep you posted ....
     
  20. Worked on the front floor pan today. Matched up the metal template with what was cut out and it needed some trimming ...
    IMG_20161026_134505992.jpg
    IMG_20161026_134517069.jpg
    I set it in place in the body and after a couple more cuts, the floorpan fit pretty good ....
    IMG_20161026_143300455.jpg
    As you can see I put the firewall in place, more or less where it will reside, using the hood hold down bolt holes in the body to keep it in place. Although not perfect, I am liking it so far ...
    IMG_20161026_150525701.jpg
    IMG_20161026_150639559.jpg
    On to some paint on the floorboard and firewall cleanup ....
     
  21. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    This is looking great Tom, sorry to hear about the motor but that's Hotrod ding buddy


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,117

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Nice build , I dig the detail and fabrication !!
    It look like you where @ Jack shop in Newport , Hampton , Area ?
     
  23. Thanks, Steve - the motor was a disappointment but you are right - that's hot rodding. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you! It all balances out in the end. At least I will have a fresh motor .....

    19Eddy30 - thanks and yes, my frame is over by Jack's place. I really appreciate his knowledge, experience but more important he is a great friend .....
     
  24. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,117

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    I talked to Jack on the phone a few times , Nice guy. A few weeks ago I ran into two guys up from down there , @ Dairy Queen Friday night , Fredricksburg the day before Karb King show ( rained out ) freids of Jack , Nice guys , We talked for hour in half or so , ( I am hell with names ) can not remember Ther's , they where in a Yellow four door Ford , I believe it was a 33-34,
    You have a very nice build happening,, Also I see the ""Frankenstein """body was found , the one that was lost in shipping
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  25. More updates .... after a break for me to do a deck project for the wife, Jack and I worked on the rear boxing plates ....
    IMG_20161115_120140633.jpg
    IMG_20161115_120229073.jpg
    IMG_20161115_135301745.jpg
    I also started taking the motor apart finally as well .... I dropped the pan to find this ...
    IMG_20161113_142349612_HDR.jpg
    And fter cleaning it out some.....
    IMG_20161113_142648651.jpg
    I then got the pans interior all spiffed up. Took out a gallon of that gloppy stuff at a minimum ...
    IMG_20161113_150814416_HDR.jpg
    I also cleaned off the outside today and after pushing out a few minor dents, it will get a coat of paint. The oil pump was absolutely immersed in this stuff for probably 12 years or so and it is soaking in cleaner as I write this. I was going to rebuild it but I will give a call to Russell Martin and see what he has ready to go .... I keep chipping away ....
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  26. Hey Eddy - they are a good bunch of guys and will talk your ear off if you let them!

    Yep, the body was found and Pete is all ready hard at work on it. I think his words were, "there will be a lot of late nights to get this in shape ...."!!!
     
  27. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,744

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Is there a thread regarding the "lost" coupe? I 'm quite curious.
     
  28. Seem to be taking a few steps backward lately. Got the engine apart after having cleaned off the crud at the top if the cylinder walls to get the pistons. I took all the bits and pieces over to my machine shop and it turns out the crud was hiding some major pits in that area. The engine will need to be bored and the fam is worn out. The max is 060 over for the '58 364 and I am 30 over now. My machine shop did a test bore at 055 and it looks like all my cylinders will clean up at 060 over. Next week will tell the tale after it has been soaked, cleaned up, a 060 over bore done and honing .... like I said, taking my lumps with this engine.

    I am thinking of a 401 or 425 cam to replace my workout 364 but it has to work with my stock heads, valves, etc. I will speak with Russel Martin but if anyone has any ideas, I am open. I am going to run a 750 single carb on the stock 364 4 bbl intake ....
     
    loudbang likes this.
  29. Hendee
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 155

    Hendee
    Member

    Great thread Tom. I'm subscribed. Just sent you a PM as well.

    Tom
     

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