Hot Rods Just Another 5-Window Build Thread

Thanks. Chuck - I appreciate it!

 

39 Guy - yep, the 5- window does it for me too. Glad you like the thread - it's been a lot of fun as well as frustrating at times but that's all part of any of project.

I never really thought of a build as entertaining but I have laughed and made more fun at myself for some of the bonehead moves I have made up to this point - more than I care to remember, really!

 

Gary - "system integration" is a great phrase for stuffing 10 lbs of engine into a 5 lb hole! LOL!

Seriously, this build could have gone a lot faster to get to this point if I did not want to stay true to my plan - I have this vision in my head for this car that will haunt me if I do not stick to it. I have been told many times "to just do this or that", not in keeping with that picture in my head, and, so far, I have not given in for the sake of expediency. I remember doing just that in my old street rodder days but I am older and wiser now, or so I would like to think ....

I would love to see some pics if your project though. I also have to say that I miss the tech classes at OJs place and catching up with guys such as yourself who are like minded but live a bit far away to see on a routine basis ....

 

Finally have some progress to write about. Let me fill in what I have going on right now. I have pulled the mock up motor and I am prepping the actual motor for installation into my frame. At present, I have been removing pieces and cleaning, glass beading, and painting things while I have been waiting for the passenger exhaust manifold. Ups paid the claim and I am getting the cracked unit as well as the replacement manifold Russ Martin promised me. He's been very helpful up to this point and I thank him for that.


With the motor and trans out of the frame, House of Fab is using the tranny and adapter to set up a mount for a flattie/T-5 combo - I won't steal his thunder but it will be a very cool piece once finished. While I have the engine out I am also fabbing up an alternator mount. I do not like the aftermarket units that mount the alt way up high over the intake. There is very little bite on the fan pulley and after all was said and done, the stock generator mount location was/is the best location for the alternator as well. The belt swings under from the crank pulley to the alternator which will be only slightly higher than the fan pulley and all three will get a good bite from the belt with less likelyhood of any fan belt squeal ...


You can see the bar on the left that comes off the stock generator mount locations - I started from this point and the idea is to mount the alternator close to the valve cover but enough to keep the belt taunt. The alt is a nippondenso off of a 87 Suzuki Samurai that D-russ turned me on to and uses on his Vickie. It is a 70 amp unit, lighter and smaller than a GM alternator, with a good pivot point ....


I used a piece of hollow steering rod and made two stands in order to lift and mount the alt to the heavy stock bar seen in the previous pic - it will pivot from here ....


Although not in the right position, this gives you a good idea of what the alt looks like. I lined up the inner most pulley, the only one I'll be using, with the alt pulley and measured and marked the bar where the alt pulley would be as far away from the block as the inner fan pulley.

So now I have to support the flat rod with the alt on it - triangulating the support is the best and so I started with the outer outer arm furthest from the block ...

The supports are of a slightly lighter stock but for this purpose they are sufficient. After a little cutting and grinding I got the two supports ready to be welded in place after I have cleaned and glass beaded each piece since they were black iron ...






I cleaned up all of the pieces today and the alt stand tacked together so I can mock things up once more and tack everything together. Dave at House of Fab will tig weld them together which I have not mastered yet - hell, I have not even mastered mig welding! LOL! I sent out the balancer to Damper Doctor to be rebuilt and I would like to have that in place before tacking things together, just to be sure. Making progress ....

 

So I wen to remove the alt mount to bring to Dave and low and behold, I'm a dummy - the way I had it mounted/bolted I could not remove it! Duhhhhh - I had to separate one of the supports and change the config slightly so I could remove it nice and easy. If you can't make fun of yourself ....

So, this is the way it turned out ....

But there was an issue - the lower portion of the fan belt runs right into the fitting for the fuel pump ...

I needed to change the angle of the belt so my only choice was to go up ....

But it just looked plain ugly - oh it passed the fitting OK but it just did not look right. So, I called and explained my problem to a buddy John on LI and he said why not get an original fuel pump that is clockable. For the second time, duhhhhh! So, the alt mount went back to its original setup and I've ordered a clockable fuel pump.

I also cleaned up a pair of oil breathers, cleaned and painted the new exhaust manifold I just received, and loaded up the mock up motor to return to my friend Joe tomorrow. Seems like doing just the simplest of things can suck up so much time but with the weather getting warmer and we get an extra hour of daylight starting Sunday, I will be able to spend more time out in the garage. I really like working in the daylight, doors open, stuff all over the place inside and out of the garage ..... much more enjoyable working that way to me. I am also making changes to my roadster, prepping it for a run to the Father's Day Roadster Show this June but that is a project for another thread I have started on the Fordbarn .....

 

The supposedly rebuilt clockable fuel pump came in yesterday - it did not look like it was rebuilt any time in the "recent past" that is for sure. I have sent it out to Charlie Schwendler in New York for a rebuild ....

 

Finally have some progress to report on the frame build. Most of the stuff for the last two weeks or so has been little stuff and I got side tracked doing a lower panel for a 40 pickup bed and prepping my roadster for a run to the father's day show. Panel is done and the roadster prep is progressing .....

With the motor and trans out is is time to start on the frame mods moving back from the K member. I had some frame rail made up by specs jacksandeuces gave me awhile ago so I was ready to start cutting. After playing around with what I was going to do, I installed the new 32 pedal setup and whittled a way a bit more on the K member so I would have a good byte to weld the new frame rail pieces to.



I really like these pedals as they emulate the 39 Ford pedal setup I really like and I can remain mechanical linkage. I then cut two 20" pieces and trimmed them to match the K member. They are about 12" apart .....



I used an extra S10 tailshaft to approximate the tranny location as I had made some marks to determine its location before I removed the motor and trans ...


I squared off the two pieces and cut a piece of 1x2 tubing to "cap off" the top of the frame rail pieces. From this point I can meld in the two final pieces which will angle towards the outer frame rail just before the kickup - they look like around 30.25" giving myself a little room for error. I will cut these tomorrow. I cut the 20" pieces off of each 5' piece of frame rail I had made up just to be sure I had enough length to make the angled back piece. Good thing because at 30.25" I would not have had enough out of a 60" pieces ....



The new frame rail pieces are at a height just underneath the upper portion of the outer frame rail and will stay that way all the way back. You remember that I removed the belly pan under the seat for a flat one I made to alleviate having to trim these new frame rail pieces ....

So far, all is level and I am happy with the progress so far. I have some heavy plate I will use for the rear wishbone mount but I will have to trim them some more - they are too far forward at the moment.

The new style 32/39 pedal setup mounts the MC fairly low - using the biggest MC I had lying around, I trimmed the lower portion of the frame rail for clearance and enough to pop the cover bands. This particular MC lies so nice and low I mat not need an access door to it fill it. It top can be popped off and done from underneath and the fill level checked with a mirror I may mount under the floorboard. As you can see, I need to trim a little more to remove it easily ...


Here's a couple more pics ...




i did mention that I was prepping the roadster for the Father's Day show in LA and the first thing I wanted to have was some fresh rubber. I all ready had a set of wide 5s ready to go for my 28 pickup project so I got a set of adapters for the front to bolt them to my f-100 drums and in the back, I swapped to wide 5 rear drums. I kind of like the look of these 235/85-R16s ....

 

The 40 pickup panel was my first attempt at panel bending. Dave has a brake and a really cool magnetized brake that was really fun to use and got my wheels turning on future pieces/projects. Anyway, I made some mistakes along the way but since this piece is only visible once you take the rear wheel off (and under the fender), they will not be so noticeable.

My buddy Butch is enabling me to clone myself a bit to continue with my wife's 40 pickup build that has been set on the back burner one too many times. He has been helping me get the used bed I bought some time ago ready for installation. It needed a new back panel, one new stake pocket on the passenger side of which nearly the entire lower 6" was gone. I tried to find a used unit but when nothing turned up, I started this little project.

I will let the pics show the progress and then enumerate what I learned ....



















OK, mistakes:
1 - I never should have made that first bend - I should work from the inside out, more or less
2 - should not have made bends with the larger, difficult to handle piece. Make the bends on the smaller piece
3 - make your weld points NOT on and inside corner, but on an outside one - easier to dress the welds
4 - do not try to overlap edges - easier to butt them or have just a small bent over edge

These are all IMHO .... can't wait for the next one to try .... and another good laugh for you experienced guys! LOL!

 

Looking good, Tom!
Isn't it ironic that we figure out how to fab a part after we've done it?

 

Ain't it the truth, Gary, ain't it the truth ....

 

More progress today on the frame. I started the rear extension pieces off of tbe two straight back from the K member by first making a pattern for my cuts using a piece of wood ....


This was a lot easier than playing with the heavy piece of frame rail or a piece of construction paper or cardboard ...

I made my cuts to the driver side first, got it fitted using clamps and the like to where I was satisfied, then transferred those cuts to the other side ...


The passenger side was a bit more of a challenge but it is now sliced and diced to fit ...

Everything is just clamped, not tacked. I need to drill some holes in the new frame rail pieces. One 3" hole in about the center of the two straight pieces, and two 3" holes, one on each side, at the ends of the angled pieces, inside enough from the future boxing plates, to run exhaust, and three 1/2-1" holes, just outside of where the boxing plates will be. These holes are for brake, gas, battery cable (my battery is going in the trunk) and for anything else I need that I do not run inside the body for.

I did have to cut reliefs along the bottom rearward edge of the pair I made today since the frame was just starting its kickup to go over the axle. So far, all is level at the moment ....

Next up is the design for the heavy plate that the rear radius rods will mount to, and measure of the final cut on the rear radius rods .....

 

Progress report - drilled some holes for tranny access, exhaust, and wiring/lines in the new frame pieces. Welding them in was not so easy as each piece needed massaging. The first go round of tacking in it in did not satisfy me, second time was better and I could have left it alone but I decided to redo it but again. 3rd time is a charm so they say ....



I also welded in pieces in some of the transition areas around the K member just for "looks" to mske it a more finished. Nothing fancy, just functional.

I was running out of gas for my welder so I will finish welding everything up topside and start welding in support pieces .....

 

Some updates - things have been hectic the last couple weeks and I have worked only sporadically on the project. I am now back on it (until the next break/interruption) !

Although I had the new frame pieces tacked in on my last update, it took me two more tries to actually get it to where I liked it.




Worked on the tranny and rear radius rod mounts - installed some braces on the under side along the same lines as the top brace piece and made some supports for where the rear radius rods will mount ....




The tranny mount I found at Dave (House of Fab) shop. It may require some mods. I then capped off the open ends of the radius mount structure ...


... trimmed the rear radius rods for the last time and started on the cardboard template for the heavy plate I intend to install underneath ....


This all gives me enough room to unbolt and move the tranny back and remove it from underneath ....


I am thinking of boxing the center portion to give it extra strength. I may have to make some shims for the tranny mount to lower the tranny - I will know more once the motor and trans are back in.

So far, I am happy with the result - I keep checking things off the build list and moving forward ....

 

My good friend John, johnrodz here on the Hamb, visited and checked out my frame. Both he and Dave at House of Fab said the lower plate connecting the underside of the center frame pieces (the cardboard piece in the last pic above) was not really needed but not a bad idea to do with a drop out piece for easier tranny removal. I will rethink/redesign my plan here ....

I broke away from frame work to play wirh my headlights. If you remember they are Packard units and they mounted with a hl stand and have a huge opening on the underside of the bucket ...



Last fall at Hershey I found an exact copy of my headlights that was a bit rougher and did not mount the same way. So, using the mount hole of my hl bucket as a template, I transferred the opening roughly to the 3rd bucket ...





The idea here is I now have the shape of the hl bucket to fill the mount opening so the bucket itself is now "whole". Support for the new mount I bought from OTB will be added ... the mounts are like the normal blc or guide style mounts ...


Once I have this whittled down to the exact size I need, I will try it on the second bucket and see if it will fit there nicely, transfer it to the 3rd bucket, and cut out another filler piece ....

 

You can never build a chassis too strong....

 

Thanks, Jack - so true!

Got to whittling down the patch I cut out - took about an hour or so and may need just a bit more tweaking ...


It fit tbe other bucket nicely so I transferred it to another area if thecsosre bucket ....

I will be at Spring Carlisle all week so I will pick this back up next week ....

 

I am presently returning from my run to the LA Roadster show BUT ....

I heard from Chester's Pete and the trucking company found the body. He is waiting for pictures and that is all I know right now Let's hope this turns out well for him .....

 

Indeed, Crate is now on the way to my place, have to be patient again 2 months, I will keep you updated

 

Well, it has been a while and a lot has gone on this summer so far but I do have some updates to post.

Been working on the rear radius bar mounts - I am using 3/4" tie rod ends vs the usual 11/16" ones I have used in the past. Couple guys suggested it, jacksandeuces in particular. Here is the start of the mounts:



This is upside down and the small end will point forward for the rears, towards the back for the front split radius rods. They are 3/8" thick and I need about 3/4" thickness. So, using the facilities at House of Fab and with guidance from Dave, I made some 3/8" pods ....


The pods are 1.5" in diameter and I drilled 9/16" holes in both the pods and the mounts, the smallest diameter of the tie rod ends before the taper begins ....



The pods will be to the inside of the mount, as well as the head of the tie rod ends. All you will see from the side (outside) will be the nuts and cotter pin holding the tie rod end to the mount ....

Another issue I have been wrestling with is wheel and tire combo. I have decided on the tires as the combo I just installed on my roadster are good - Austone's up front that are 5.75R16, and 236/85-R16 out back. The rears will work just fine with the 3:23 gears I have and the 5th gear ratio of the 5-speed, especially considering how torquey the Buick is ... but then it was what rims? I love the American Racing Salt Flat rims but I thought it too "new" for my early 60s vibe. I definitely wanted something more than just straight 16" steel rims. Well, while at Spring Carlisle I spied a set of 5 30s Plymouth artillery wheels my buddy Ross had in the 4.5" on 5 pattern I need. They were perfect for my project ....

So, after purchasing them I checked their run out once home. One was great, one was eh, one was horrendous, and the other two needed work as well and they all needed wheel lip work. I started searching for wheel shops that straighten steel rims and I found plenty that did aluminum rims but not steel. Another roadblock, or opportunity as some might say ....

Then my good friend John from LI told me about a place on the island that straightened steel wheels. When he came down to buy a really nice 30-31 5-window coupe body I turned him on to, he took my rims back to the island and had them straightened for me. It was not cheap at $50 a pop, but now I have 5 good rims. After my search for wide 5 rims, it was worth the price. Now - a nice cap for these beauties ....

I did some research and there are few choices that do not say Plymouth on them. Then it was wheelkid to the rescue as a google search turned up a HAMB thread about my wheels and caps that wheelkid sells that, with a little bending of the tongs that hold that cap on, they fit perfectly. They are a Moon style cap which again fits well with my early 60s theme ...




I know it's simple but I am really digging this look. As far as rim color, I had thought of matching the dark mustard tan of the 32 dash for the rims. But, after seeing how nice the satin black looks on my roadster wide 5 rims, I am going to go that way.

After a bit of a hiatus, for a great road trip to the LA Roadster Show, Rocky Mountain Nats, and all of the stops in between that is, it feels good to be moving forward again ....

 

Got some quality time on the project this weekend finally .....

I made some support pieces for the new frame rails, started welding in the body mount cage nuts .....




Since the rear radius mounts are coming together I made up some plates to mount them to - I just kind of came up with a design that seemed to fit ....






I clamped on the mount and tie rod end just to get a feel of what it was going to look like - this is looking in/underneath on the passenger side ...



There hs been an issue with the back portion of the frame just before the rear crossmember ever since I brought the frame home from the frame straightening shop. Yeah, I know - all the money I spent there was wasted money really. Anyway, the driver side bowed down and the end of the driver frame rail was down almost an inch from where it was supposed to be. How the frame shop missed this (and many other things) is beyond me ....


Anyway, after thinking about it I cut a relief in the driver frame rail right where the axle passes underneath ....

Lifting this rail until it was level with the passenger side (which was nearly spot on according to Henry's 32 frame rail specs), I also noticed the new piece of frame rail I put on way back when also bowed down, So I cut some reliefs in it and got it in spec ...


Now the rear frame horns were still out left to right. So I again cut some reliefs, right about where I had welded these pieces on, on the top and bottom flat portion of the frame rail and pulled them into shape, checking to make sure the crossangle dimensions from a hole just behind the rear crossmember, the same location on both sides, on one side to the end of the frame rail on the other were equal for both sides ...

I know this all might be elementary for a lot of you, but it all came out better than I expected. After some finish welding, it will be complete.


Next up, the cutouts for the frame rail notches for the rear axle and some cut away for 35-36 rear radius rod clearance .... then I can "fix" the rear axle and rear radius rod mounts in the chassis .....

 

Been working on multiple things but I have not posted anything. Here is what I have been up to .....

I have been trying to get the front and rear suspensions to be square and things were just not lining up properly. I started doing some measurements and although I was good front to rear, left to right, the diagonals were off. Upon further inspection, my frame was just not right - with my measurements it looked like the front crossmemeber was not welded in the right location. So, I called my friend jacksandeuces to come over and he confirmed my suspicions. Something is definitely not right - so that was the bad news. Good news is that Jack said I could probably bring my frame over after Labor Day as his 32 frame jig will be available then. I spent the last day or so getting the frame loose from the jig in my garage and it is ready to go. Thanks, Jack!

I have also been working on my clutch setup. I thought I would need some modifications but after making some measurements and a visit from johnrodz, I wanted to do a full mock up to be sure where I sit right now. First thing, the hook for the return spring of the Cornhusker unit left a little play that I was afraid I would not be able to afford ....



Johnrodz suggested I drill a 1/8" hole and insert a cotter pin and that did the trick .... thanks, John!



I am using a mechanical 39 pedal setup in my Cornhusker adapter. Measurements looked like all would line up, no problem - just a matter of where the clutch disk would reside and where the p-plate fingers would end up contacting the t-out bearing. Here is what I had up to this point ..

Measurements show that I should have 1/4" at least of free play between the t-out bearing and the p-plate fingers. So, I marked the shaft with my guess ....


Clutch disk was a different story - measurements now showed that I may have a problem - I marked the splines of the main shaft as to where I thought it would be ....

Going by the numbers placed the clutch disk I am using for mock up in place ...

Right away, you can see the clutch disk is nearly falling off the main shaft of the tranny. Here is what we should be seeing or something close ...

Bottom line, only about 1/2" of the the 1" total of the splines of the clutch center were on the main shaft splines before they taper off. Before I jump off the deep end however, I did a full install of everything - the early 90s Camaro t-out bearing is just sitting in front of the stock 39 Ford t-out bearing carrier. No modifications what so ever. Here is a pic of that setup through the inspection hole of Cornhusker's adapter ...

Where the clutch disk resides was another story - no picture was a possibility here but I was able to put some paint at the end of a slim stick, put it between the fingers of the clutch, and mark where the clutch disk resided ....

The paint mark and my original marker measurement confirm my problem. My only option is to get a longer center, about 1/2", but after a call to Fort Wayne Clutch, there is no longer shaft for the center of the clutch disk I need. I ordered a center from Fort Wayne Clutch ....

This center is a much heavier unit than what is in the center of the mock up unit I am using. I will remove the center from the mock up unit and resort to old hot rodding methods and tig weld the two centers together and trim off what I do not need. I really do not have any other choice as there is no other part of the setup that can move in or out. I am confident the heavier FWC center can take all of what I can disk out to it but maybe not the tranny shaft - a little piece of mind is worth the extra effort I think ....

 

Got my frame over to Jack's and onto his frame jig. First thing we saw was that the center was too wide - we trimmed out the center piece leaving only the front and rear cross members holding the frame rails together ....

With that center piece out we were able to locate the rear frame horns and the next two locations on the jig up to the front legs of the K member.

With the frame now level and bolted/welded into the jig, we moved to the front of the frame in front of the K member. The passenger frame rail had either been hit/modified at one time and front rails are splayed out at the bottom. Jack went to work on the passenger front rail, getting it as straight as the driver side is. After a bit of slicing, heat, hammering, leveling, the rail is now in much better shape ....


I am feeling really good about my frame at this point thanks to Jack ..... I could never have done these fixes on my frame jig setup .....

 

As for the clutch disk, the welding of the two center pieces failed miserably. Both of the items were so full of impurities that they were oozing oil while in the process of welding them together even after having heated them up ....


Now what do I do - I was not happy but there has to be a solution. I called Russell Martin who has all the Buick stuff and he suggested shaving the Cornhusker adapter. I spoke with a hot rod buddy of mine Craig who could shave it at his shop ( Dave does not have that capability) and to look at the adapter, seeing what could be shaved safely and/or make a new center hub for the clutch disk. Based on this conversation, another with johnrodz here on this forum, and another good friend if mine, the decision was made to shave the adapter. Whatever I gain from this is it. The conversations discussed the car's use - I am not going to race the car every weekend, the rear tires are not that wide, I am not running a posi rear, and the car is light enough that with all of the Buick's torque it will probably just spin the one tire anyway. Doing it this way also does not require anything "special" shoukd I need to replace the clutch disk - everything will be off the shelf.

I have ordered a McLeod clutch disk and once in I will mock everything up, take careful measurements, and see how much I can shave the adapter keeping in mind of clearances, p-plate movement, pilot bushing location, and t-out bearing movement, etc......

 

i might have missed it but what are you doing for shocks?

 

I think I am going to use some small gas shocks up front and gas shocks out back. It's what I have around at the moment and we'll just see how it rides once on the road.

You?

 

'Just went back and re-read the whole thread. You're really kickin it...looks good. I can't wait to see it on the road!

 

Hey, thanks, Tom - seeing your car done has given me a boost to get her done that's for sure! I am hoping the frame is ready for suspension install when I get it back, get it all plumbed and completed, and test fit the body by Christmas. We shall see .... trying to make the LSR with it in April .....

 

Hi Tom,

We conversed regarding PP and clutch discs. looks like I better drop you and email from your post above about the adapter. My dad's car is coming along but this is an area he hasn't worked on yet. So we need to get it sorted and soon. I think he needs to sort out a PP that will work, and by the look of it the clutch throw out bearing carrier too.

 

Yes, I remember our conversation - thank you for that. To recap, the adapter and carrier are from Cornhusker (Cornhusker carrier is already ready for the S10/Camaro, p-plate is early 90s V8 Camaro as well as the t-out bearing, clutch disk is from McLeod, #260130, 10.5", 1 1/16", 10 spline to match the tranny, ordered through Jegs.

I should get the clutch disk Tuesday .... will keep you posted on how much to shave .....

 

More work was done on the frame and we did make some discoveries about the frames origin. First, it is an original frame with stock front and rear cross members. It is also an early 32 frame as their are no rear crossmember supports. It was Z'd out back at one time, cut right where the old 2-pc aftermarket 32 frames were, and put back to stock, and this frame had a channelled body on it at one time according to the extra holes we have found. The only thing I knew about this frame is that it came with the 32 body and stuff I bought from Hamb'r Nils from the Boston area.

Presently, the frame is now completely level, it's straight, and as close to the stock specs as we can get if not better. We are going to install different stock frame horns, C the rear of the frame, and continue welding it top and bottom ....