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June Banger Meet - All new in '09

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Wildfire, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. andyg
    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 560

    andyg
    Member

    good advice here....true banger guys, chris, elrod, bill.

    Irs30....they know what they are talking about. A ton of info can be found in Charlie Yapp's "Secrets of Speed Society" publications also.

    <O:p</O:pHere is some info to you generator runners.

    <O:p</O:pSummary is at the bottom.

    <O:p</O:pI will start by saying that in keeping with and striving for a true prewar style hotrod I run a 6v generator...nothing against the alternators. Here are some learning experiences I've had lately.

    <O:p</O:pPulled into favorite Mexican restaurant and shut off the ignition switch and noticed that the amp gauge pegged out on the discharge side. This was warning sign number one. Looked for the obvious which was to see if I left the lights turned on. Lights were not turned on and I decided to go back to the house about 5 miles away thinking that the battery would be dead later (yes battery would have went dead). I crank it up and get almost out of the parking lot and the amp gauge goes back to normal which was about 0 amps given the low rpm of the engine. So I turn around and go eat scratching my head thinking what was all of that about&#8230;.something must have grounded out&#8230;.or is my amp gauge on the blink???
    <O:p</O:p

    About a week later I notice while happily motoring along that my amp gauge has crept up the about 15 amps. My normal setting is about 5-7 amps in the day time. I stop and play with the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> brush. The field brush as it is called because it connects to the field coil. Even though I run it all the way down it will not charge less than 18-20 amps at speed. This was warning sign number two.

    About a week after that, after scratching my head and not driving it much, I decided I would drive it for a while and see if the battery was heating up (running an optima 6v). After arriving at my destination about 10 miles away, I get out and see that my poor generator is about to take its last breath as smoke is boiling out of it. The battery seemed cool as normal. We got some water handy in case of an all out fire (yes if was very hot) but luckily didn&#8217;t need it. I then took the wire off the gen and grounded the gen to the frame (as to not burn it up whilst driving back home&#8230;lol) and took off.

    After getting home and letting the once again smoke boiling generator cool off, I took it apart to find everything very black and toasted looking. The heat melted part of the armature and burnt the cover off the field coils. It even melted the grease out of the sealed front bearing.

    Here&#8217;s what I learned after spending 5 ½ hours with a local (30 miles away&#8230;yes I live in the sticks) generator, alternator, starter, electric motor repair shop.

    The original style cutout shorted out and let the battery back feed into the generator effectively turning it into an electric motor&#8230;.thus the discharge at the Mexican restaurant. (NOTE-If your amp gauge is doing funny stuff, pay attention. The amp gauge can be a very good tool if you know what to look for.) If the belt had been off the engine, the generator would have started spinning on its own. The cut out not only cuts out the current to the battery at a preset voltage (usually about 7.5 volts if set correctly, it also keeps the current of the battery from going back into the generator (turning it into an electric motor.) It&#8217;s like a one-way check valve. Cutouts and diode cutouts are prone the short out if over amperaged. Most of the round bodied, diode cutouts are rated at 5 amps MAX! If you run much over that, usually 50% or 8amps or so, you risk melting the diode and letting the battery current back into the generator.

    The second warning sign noted earlier was also from an internal short. &#8220;George&#8221;, the guy at the starter shop, told me that when they short out they will either back feed into the gen (as described earlier) or the gen can short out where it overcharges (warning sign number two). I had both at different times. Something else he told me was that cutouts and armatures are very sensitive pieces. I welded on my body without unhooking the battery which was most likely the cause of my problems. I assumed that since my old rig didn&#8217;t have any &#8220;modern electronics&#8221;, it would be ok. I was wrong. I have had 3 gens do &#8220;funny&#8221; stuff and not doubt that welding on the car was the cause of all my problems.

    Out of 4 generators that I took to George&#8217;s shop, 3 of 4 armatures were bad, all 4 sets of field coils were good (He said they rarely go bad. They read 80% resistance I think&#8230;.or maybe it was 20 % resistance&#8230;.but they weren&#8217;t the 50% that he thought they would be&#8230;.based on newer style field coils&#8230;..the less resistance the more output in amps). I had 3 bad cutouts including one diode style from Bratton&#8217;s.

    After putting the good armature into the burnt up field coil case, with a good diode cutout, and new bearing, I&#8217;m back motoring happily again!

    So here&#8217;s the SUMMARY:
    1) Do NOT weld on you car without unhooking the battery.
    2) Diode style cutouts are good but buy the ones that are rated for 25 amps (part # K100 at your local electric motor shop) instead of the ones rated for 5 amps that are sold by Brattons, Macs, and others.
    3) If you go full discharge for no reason, your cutout has probably shorted out and your feeding current back into the generator. You need to unhook the generator quickly. You probably have 30-60 seconds before the armature starts getting pretty hot.
    4) If your charging too high and you can&#8217;t adjust it down far enough by rotating the field brush farther away from the armature brush, then you need to have the generator checked out asap&#8230;.specifically the armature and the cutout.
    5) 3<SUP>rd</SUP> brush or field brush is wired to your field coils. The other end of your field coils is wired to ground stud in the case. The stud that the cutout hooks to is wired to the other brush that has a wire screw. It&#8217;s called the armature brush.
    6) Diodes can be check for current direction by local shop or you can hook it up to something that has lower amperage output than the rating on the diode and check current direction. Cutout should only allow current to flow from generator side to battery side. NOT the reverse.

    Happy Motoring!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  2. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 437

    brjnelson
    Member

    Howdy Guy's I have been lurking out in the shop and put the ripper intake project aside and whipped up this in & out for the Heap. I will try to run my Winfield AA dual carbs.
    [​IMG]
    Hope I can tune the Winnie to run sweet.
     
  3. Piewagn
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 842

    Piewagn
    Member

    Finally got mina on all fours and fired her up tonight!! Brand new leakless water pump friggin' leaks!! I should be able to drive her this weekend!! Here she is!
     

    Attached Files:

  4. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,202

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Any tips on auxilary oil filtration? Where to tap into, what product to use, I put one on my 54 since it was sans filtration... So I think I owe it to the old FORD to do the same... Any info out there for me to read up tips links anything....
     
  5. Red Ryder
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 174

    Red Ryder
    Member

    Thanks for sharing the timing info Elrod, I took your advice and laminated it today. Should come in handy one day!


     
  6. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Piewagn,

    I love it. good work.

    BRJNelson,
    Dig the look. Where did you get the carb addapter?

    .
     
  7. Piewagn
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 842

    Piewagn
    Member

    This coupe is friggin' awsome!!
     
  8. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    Without internal mods I don't think filters work very well on an A engine.
    there isn't a good way to bolt on a filter kit that is going to filter the oil before it gets to the things your trying to protect

    There are many kits available. most of the A parts dealers sell them.

    .
     
  9. Piewagn
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 842

    Piewagn
    Member

    Nice roadster Wildfire!! Maybe someday for me! I think my wife would shoot me if I came home with somethin' else! Maybe when she get bored with the Tudor.
     
  10. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    I think you are getting good advise here I have driven my tee RP for over 40 years and it is not finished and probably never will be that is the joy of it .It has given me more enjoyment than any other rod I have ever owned. Its B [counterbalanced crank] powered on a model A chassis originally built for hunting using the remains of an old race car it is entirely home built and has taught me heaps I think the secret is to keep them on the road as you develop them you feel what is right [performance] you dont have to go high bucks so many times I have seen some young guy come along say he is going to build the best around buy some of the most expensive gear only to find it is mismatched or he runs out of money having a driver and improving it gives the most fun hehe where will these rat rods be in thirty years time at least they are another body saved.Probably one of my best and most satisfying improvements was fitting a scavenged early nissen pulsar electronic distributor about 5 bucks and a bit of time with an alternator and 12 volts it made one hell of a difference.I also have fitted a high compression head twin carbs[Holden strongbergs from Australia],a quick change ,an overdriveand heaps of other little tinkers gee I hope my car is never finished ENJOY:D
     
  11. Piewagn
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 842

    Piewagn
    Member

    Thanks CD!! I'm chompin' at the bit to get behind the wheel and see how she goes!
     
  12. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Most people say that will be the best part of the build, but I seem to have more fun working on them. :D;)

    .
     
  13. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 437

    brjnelson
    Member

    The photo angle makes the carb look like a single, the adapter is one that Ed made to fit his carb on a Stromberg base. I have posted the carb many times, here another view.

    [​IMG]
    I do not know how well or if the carb will work, if it fights back, I will put the 81 back on.
     
  14. Piewagn
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 842

    Piewagn
    Member

    I'm with ya on that one. Finding parts and putting your own personal touches on it is most of the fun! I also love to see the reaction on people's faces when you drive 'em down the road!
     
  15. wak53
    Joined: Jan 15, 2006
    Posts: 76

    wak53
    Member
    from aus

    Brjnelson if it fights back and hates you I would love to be hated by that setup and I would love to fight it!!!
     
  16. It looks a lot like one Nervous Bob ran back in the early 90's. I'll see if I have any pictures.
    Hi Filip! Gonna use it with that manifold flange you had from me...?

    Philip...
     
  17. Brendan1959
    Joined: Jun 26, 2008
    Posts: 285

    Brendan1959
    Member

    RussTee
    Any pictures of your car? I would like to see the twin aussie strombergs, I have thought about this setup as well.
    I agree with you about the tinkering, I hope to get my A on the road then start modifying.
    Brendan
     
  18. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    To answer a previous question, the rear of the car was lowered by putting a Model T rear spring out back, with two leaves removed.

    I received a few questions by PM about the bolt on bracket to make the brake actuators work on my coupe.

    Here is the basic concept that the Fidgiter came up with. Something to go on either side of the spring perch, with a bolt through it, and then a nut at the top that the brake actuator stud can go through. The nut on top is not intended to thread on. It's larger than the stud, but it's what we used instead of hollow stock bar.

    After bolting on, I got worried that this concept piece would rotate inward toward the car, thus pulling the brake actuator out of the king pin socket. so we added the gussets on the inside of the bracket so that they can't possibly rotate in toward the car. See the two pictures below.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Parts as supplied by winfield This is for"B" size carburetors I have seen a dual stromberg manifold for A B with 2 adapters and 4 carburetors don't know how or if it ran. [​IMG]
     
  20. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,202

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I was curious if anybody has an exploded view of the Stock two lamp head lights and an exploded view of where the lighting wiring harness goes into the switch housing, I think I am missing pieces and need to find what I am missing so I can start looking for missing pieces.. I have the new harness, switch housing and horn light switch that goes thru the column, but not sure how it makes the connection in the switch housing, if that makes since.... Thank's Ryan "the NEWB with all the questions"
     
  21. Most suppliers of model"A: parts show details in their catalogs.
     
  22. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,202

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    All I am seeing in my catalogs are pictures of the harness which I have I just need to find out what goes in the switch housing on the other end of the housing where the light and horn button come into it.. I guess its top secret info cause I have yet to find it in any online catalog.. I think i am missing a spring clip that holds the housing to the end of the steering box as well, another item i don't see in the catalogs....Anybody have a used one laying around??
     
  23. when...I get to the lasalle, I am going to find that set up for it. kevin over at cyclone can do the heads and intake. that will be the perfect way to top it off.
     
  24. i can not help my self, it is so cute:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. see, a mini banger:

    [​IMG]
     
  26. lots of good speedster applicable details...

    [​IMG]
     

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