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Technical ***June 2021 Banger Meet Thread - How's Your 4 Cylinder***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,946

    97
    Member

    serial number , unless railcarmover's Winfield head was made in 1983! The other thing I notice is that if the raised letters on your head ( Winfield), are about compression it's either 19:1 or 1 to 9 if I read the first number correctly as a 1.
     
  2. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 658

    railcarmover

    your guess is as good as mine.. maybe a production sequence, I don't know..all I do know is its a good head,and who doesnt like good head?
     
  3. For those of you planning to attend the final F.A.S.T oriented time trials the June 26th; here are the class designations: (BTW next year the time trials may be reconfigured) FASTClasses.jpeg FAST2021.jpeg
     
  4. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Ok, I just took picture of 6:1 again and maybe not confusing to you. The 6:1 is underlined by blue tape. This marking is opposite side of WINFIELD head lettering… from the pad with 6 5 3 O. Not 9:1 head. Wish it was !!
    Winfield IRON heads were not made up into 1980s But plenty aluminum copies were and are still being made ! I have an alum at 7:1.
    I do have an iron FLATHEAD… with a 8:1 cr.

    It has the winfield crowfoot/ wedge comb chamber. It is a one off new caste iron head that I tested on a hot B. Ran great.
    It Was made March 2016.
    Had it flatened, put couple hundred mi. on it. Then went into storage.
    Made of mechanite. Machine shop said hardest iron head he’d ever flatened !!
     

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  5.  
  6. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 658

    railcarmover

    thumbnail - 2019-07-30T172303.019.jpg

    I found the head in Orinda CA,it was in the parts stash of a '28 tudor for sale, being sold by the grandson of the deceased owner. I cut the deal and drove a block away before I stopped, got out and danced a jig..I don't know shit about Winfield, or any other banger stuff other than what I read in a few old SOSS mags and Jims book combined with 42 years of pulling wrenches for a living, Ill never take the hobby to the extent others on this board do. I never measure the chamber volume of this head, just cleaned it bolted it on and ran it. Runs good, better than stock, better than a shaved Snyder 5.5 and a Rosemead aluminum 6 to 1 winfield repop I had ran before on the same engine.
     
  7. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Picked up my Burtz engine flywheel yesterday at warehouse. Palets of ton of them available. I wished now that I’d got two. Very nice. Now need ring gear ! Anyone got a GOOD source of quality flywheel bolts ?
     

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    Jet96, Phil Damon and guitarguy like this.
  8. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,205

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Nice score. from here I would say it is somewhere between 6:1 and 7:1.

    .
     
  9. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,766

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    E50CBF0C-3355-4636-A192-1DDBC010E00A.jpeg

    Heading to the Speedster Reunion in the morning. Anybody else from here going?
     
    Jet96, Old Dawg and Dustyp489 like this.
  10. Is that a speedster-ute?
    Be safe and have fun
    J
     
  11. Shutter Speed
    Joined: Feb 2, 2017
    Posts: 881

    Shutter Speed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Other side of the coin...I’ve been an SOSS member, contributor, and buyer of parts for many years, and Charlie’s been nothing but a pleasure to work with. Maybe you didn’t pay the extra foreign postage?
     
    Airborne34 and BeaverMatt like this.
  12. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

    Stromberg 97 and Banger help needed.

    (1) In order to enrich the air/fuel mixture at the idle circuit the 97, does one turn the needles in (CW) or turn the needle out (CCW)?

    (2) I may be reaching the cfm limit of my single 97 carb on my warmed over flathead banger at upper rpm range. Does the engine go into a lean air/fuel condition when it runs out of carb, or does the engine the engine receive just less of a "proper" AF mixture because only so mich ari can pass through the carb?

    Thanks in advance for your input
    Phred
     
  13. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,946

    97
    Member

    I have no interest in debating this here, the only person I am interested in hearing from about this , is the person I handed my money over too. I was living in the USA at the time, my friend still lives at the same address, I tried to make contact with SOSS several times without success, in the last message I said that I may be interested in some parts, and got a reply, which said they were" out of stock " at the time.....that was about a year later. I have never heard again and nor has my friend at my former address (which is still my USA address and where I often have parts and mail (bank statements etc ) sent to. She has NO INTEREST in old cars, so I know there is no problem there, I have been back there visiting many times and I am in weekly contact .
     
  14. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 658

    railcarmover

    Back the idle air mixture screw out to fatten it up. 97 has a power valve at the end of the fuel pump stroke,take top off and pump out,make sure its clean,97 is an emulsion tube design,picture a straw with a bunch of little holes in it basically the more you throttle the more of the little holes get fuel..those holes do get plugged with crap,that 'white crust of death' is nasty.
     
  15. Phred
    how about a little more information?
    at what rpm does it seem to go rich/lean?
    you say warmed over flathead, which head/cam etc.

    I have a single 94 on my coop, it will pull up past 5k
    J
     
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  16. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 525

    brjnelson
    Member

    The Iowa Hillclimb is on, flyer is the attached file.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

    Lion Head III with intakes relieved, Isky 1007B regrind cam, Intake and exhaust ported as much as I dared, valve springs shimmed to help with valve float, stock oiling system, dual straight pipe exhaust. Spark plugs #2 and #3 are lighter than #1 and #4 (nice tan color), probably due to Siamese intake ports and 1-2-4-3 firing order. Engine seems to run out of steam after 3500 rpm in 2nd gear. Runs VERY good otherwise, quite comfortable at 1600 rpm and up. I've read I want to stay below 4000 rpm with stock oiling

    1) I want to enrichen the idle circuit to cut down on "snap, crackle, pop" on deceleration and over run.

    2) I don't know that the engine is going lean at higher rpm. I just wanted to know if an engine is under carbed, does the AF ratio go lean or does the carb become a "restrictor" only allowing so much properly AF mixture into an engine that can "pump more air"?

    Phred
     
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  18. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,309

    Barrelnose pickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Can anyone advise me what is a good spark plug type/range is to start out with a Lion 3 head?
    Happy to receive “we need more info”, I just don’t know where to start.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  19. It sounds as if you are running out of fuel?
    Do you have a pump to feed carb
    Could your float level be too low?
    Restriction in the fuel line or inlet filter?

    J
     
    Outback likes this.
  20. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,946

    97
    Member

    Phred,
    Air flow/depression at the venturi draws metered fuel from the bowl, after about 25% throttle opening the idle circuit will have little effect on air fuel ratio. A 97 in good condition should be able to meter enough fuel to feed your motor at those revs, as John says if it is still on gravity feed the float level may be dropping too far. Or, there may be an air leak (which the carb cannot meter).
    Popping and backfiring on the overrun is often an air leak into the exhaust. A warped header plate would cause that and also possibly an air leak at the intake/exhaust manifold interface . Depends on how your manifolds are made...do you have pictures of your setup?
     
  21. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

     
  22. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

    Here's a photo. 2-1/2# Facet fuel pump, split exhaust, hot water heat under the English 97 carb. I'll be adjusting the valves next week so I can change the manifold/block gasket then. I'll also check the float level and clean the carb then. Engine.jpg
     
  23. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,946

    97
    Member

    I see you are using the original tank, the pumps are designed to be mounted no more than 12" from the tank, and the FAQs at Facet say some pumps should not be lower than the fuel level.
    Another possibility is fuel getting heated and vaporising in the line , I cannot really see how close the fuel lines are to the exhausts . Your exhaust does not have the full length plate with the intake manifold bolted over the top of it as some are, but the manifolds do look relatively heavy and could easily be leaking air at the head/manifold joint. You can check that with the engine idling and spray some starter fluid, gas, or propane around the joints. CAREFULLY . If the engine changes note then you know there is a leak.



    https://www.facet-purolator.com/faq/

    http://www.facet-purolator.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/2018 Automotive Catalog.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
    Outback likes this.
  24. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

    Thanks, I'll test with starter fluid prior to taking things apart.
     
  25. modelAsteve
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 362

    modelAsteve
    Member

    No fuel pressure regulator! What's that thing with the hose coming out of it under the carb? block it off and try running it.
     
  26. Steve
    The factet pump does not need a regulator if the proper model selected
    The hose below the carburetor is a heater plumbed into cooling system
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  27. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,946

    97
    Member

    That test only applies to the intake manifold obviously , you should also carefully remove and closely check the gaskets as well , for both intake and exhaust leaks . Other places for an air leak could also be at the base of the carb , top and bottom of your water heater , etc etc. But I think that if you have two cylinders light colour on the plugs and two looking rich , any leak is likely to be at the manifold to head joint. As you have ported the head "as far as you dare" , check to make sure the gaskets are actually sealing right around the intake joints, it only takes a small air leak !
    One other thing I just thought of, is the fuel tap under the tank inside the car and also the filter/watertrap on the firewall...they often get clogged up on Model As , there is a screen in the tank which pushes into the top of the valve under the tank, which can get clogged up too, any restriction in the lines like that will cause issues at higher revs. https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A9193T.html
    It might be a good idea to check fuel flow and pressure , at the carb inlet fitting .
     
    Outback likes this.
  28. Phil Farber and Max McLain have completed the installation of the Model B engine with the Riley 4 port. It's just in time for Saturday's Time Trials at the Santa Margarita Ranch! Max&Phil.jpg
     
    Jet96, 97, Mikko_ and 1 other person like this.
  29. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 658

    railcarmover

    Damn Dawg,nothing like a squared away shop to make me feel cheap and inadequate :)

    Phred, where did you get that intake heater? also, with that long bell crank in the throttle linkage you want to make sure you are getting full throttle.
     
    97 and Old Dawg like this.
  30. It sure is! The shop complex is owned by Jack Dewar. Jack started the Santa Margarita Time Trials years ago. Jack, over 90 years old has retired from his company; J.B. Dewar Inc.; and oil jobber started by Jack's dad. Max is the "Hobby Shop" garage "Honcho". I'm allowed to come work on some of my stuff occasionally.
     

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