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Technical ***June 2021 Banger Meet Thread - How's Your 4 Cylinder***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey 97,
    The important aspect, of using aV8 flywheel…. on a banger… that’s not mentioned/ explained here is…A SUPPORT (bearing/bushing MUST be installed , to reinforce/support the end of bendix shaft for this to work.
    Someone here may remember the name of a member who posted here years ago. He was a very talented fabricator and banger RACER.
    He posted here with pictures, details and explanations on HOW to successfully adapt V8 flywheel with bendix support.
    I’m not good with remembering names, dates and details these days. But I can still see his face and great info he shared with us.
    His son became the race driver eventually.
    Anyone remember his name ?
     
  2. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Was it Just plain Bill? He has a pretty good write-up about this v8 starter business in the October 2015 Banger Meet, page 8.
     
  3. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    THANKS for confirming an old memory. I still miss Bills contributions to our hobby knowledge !
    So, question. Who can copy(write) Bills knowledge given to all us ?
     
  4. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 396

    Jiminy
    Member

    Outback, Six Ball, loudbang and 2 others like this.
  5. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Thank you, @Jiminy. I made that last post from my phone, and I just wasn't savvy enough to link to his post on that platform.
     
    Jiminy likes this.
  6. Phil Damon
    Joined: May 8, 2020
    Posts: 37

    Phil Damon
    Member
    from San Diego

    BeaverMatt likes this.
  7. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 155

    Dustyp489
    Member

  8. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,913

    97
    Member

    Yes I realise all of that, but Casual 6 had already stated that he had a V8 flywheel and that it had been working and he had broken the gear , when he bought a new gear and tried to fit it the gear did not engage with the flywheel, so he did not need to know about the conversion just that he was likely installing the gear correctly for an A but not for an A with a V8 flywheel.
    I have that same information which came from a series of old 1930s or 40s magazine articles , so Charlie Yapp, Secrets of Speed Society does not have any exclusive copy rite at all , his writer copied it from an old magazine article along with a lot of other stuff printed in SOSS magazines. The old series of magazine articles were amazingly enough called "Speed Secrets, for Fast Ford 4 barrels" .



    It would appear that he has now paid for a copy of the plagarised information and has his answers.

    You might get the idea that I am no fan of Charlie Yapp and SoSS. Yes you would be right!
    I was invited and went to their AGM at the Holiday Inn in Lancaster or Palmdale in 1994, the same weekend of El Mirage opening ( so had to be May I think). I paid for a multiple year membership (subscription) to SOSS and some other mechandise...Nothing ever came my way...it pissed me off and still does.
     
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  9. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey 97,
    That (alleged theft of funds, etc. )
    is bad business !
    Unfortunately, your story is similar to others that I’ve heard over many years.
    Without examining evidence , of any incident, in detail… it’s not easy to reach a conclusion or to take side.
    However, the saying where there’s smoke there’s fire .. comes to mind.
    If we could speak while together, I would advise of ‘stories’ told to me via some old timers… who claimed similar treatment as you… and statements of bad business behavior/plagiarism.
    Thanks for your efforts/ info to help us understand the use of the V8 flywheel with Banger engine.
    Somehow Ive missed … where the OP used a support for end of bendix in his application ?
    He BROKE the bendix ! Did it break … because it was NOT with a support ?? Then found that a support should help prevent breakage ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    97 likes this.
  10. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,913

    97
    Member

    The picture in post #30 in this thread looks to me like the shaft is set up for the support bearing, I posted that in a hurry at around 3 am NZ time, I was in a hurry to go to bed , having sat up all night reading HAMB and watching youtube. I assumed, and we all know assume makes an ass out of U and me!:cool::eek:

    As far as Charlie Yapp goes. I don't care what he thinks about me outing him on the HAMB, he ripped me off and I will not forgive him until I get what I am due. In over 30 years visiting the USA , sometimes multiple times a year , I was only ever ripped off twice, I paid with cash...lesson learned ! I have a pay back for Charlie Yapp, copy some of his parts and sell them cheap, I might even decide to "export" some next time I can be bothered making a batch. :cool::D.
     
    guitarguy and Old Dawg like this.
  11. Welp, got the new engine painted "High Vis" yellow. That way they'll see me when I break down!

    With a combination of magnesium and polished aluminum, I think it'll look cool! Black oil pan going on soon.
    [​IMG]
     
    Old Dawg, Jet96 and Dustyp489 like this.
  12. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Dustyp489 likes this.
  13. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Any Winfield experts on this board ?
    I have a 6:1 original cast iron , born on 5-1930.
    I never can remember seeing a compression ratio standing proud /above the head surface !
    My question… is this ratio marking standard winfield practice ?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 43

    4bangerbob
    Member
    from AB, Canada

    Here is a listing of the auction results (which do not include the 23% service charge or local taxes) for relevant banger and winfield carbs from the auction.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. On the small oval pad the first number is the compression. This has been printed in many articles. Is it fact, I dont know.
     
  16. On the auction results, the Price Riley head was the sleeper. Complete nos head with cast iron exhaust manifold for 1700.
     
  17. 20210118_172809_resized.jpg Do any of you overhead guys have any trouble getting oil to the rockers? I have a Miller hi speed head on a B block with a aftermarket high volume oil pump, pressure to the mains but dippers at the rods.. It pumps 30 psi when cranking measured after the filter going into the lifter galley. Once the oil enters the galley there is not enough pressure to pump through the external line to the rockers. Yes I did punch holes in the side cover gasket. What could be my problem?
     
    GuyW, barrnone50 and guitarguy like this.
  18. Check to see if oil galley has plug in front up by the cam gear
    Stock B motor was not pressured
    If you plug this it will become pressurized but you may need to restrict the rear cam bearing

    j
     
    Old Dawg and winduptoy like this.
  19. I'm sure it doesn't and I'm guessing I'm going to have to install a restrictor in there but I still need to get oil to the dipper tray. So what size hole would provide enough oil to flow to the dipper tray and boost the oil pressure?
     
  20. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Roger,
    How have you been ?
    You did a Great job building your roadster from scratch !
    If you have Jim Brierley book, he put pictures that show/describe how to plug the holes at either ends of gallery. Also he explains what size holes to drill. I dont have my book at hand, but #30 drill comes to mind…could be wrong memory. If you dont have his book (Bangers and me ?), call me. Ill dig out my book.
    Nice to know your still kicking !!
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  21. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 643

    railcarmover

    Here's the numbers off my Winfield red head..dont think that's a date code that follows the 7...the way I understand it, the first number was the compression.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. That is a good question
    You will have oil to the tray from the main bearings, but that is only after a short time running
    It is going to depend on the size of the pump, volume pumped at pressure
    Since it is fairly accessible from the side cover, I would start out with .156 dia
    That is approx 1/4 the area of the existing hole 5/16"
    The rear cam bearing under pressure could push oil out the rear and past the gasket on the housing if not capped
    In that case a restrictor to the cam bearing helps, .030 dia or so
    It also depends on the cam journal, if stock with relief groove, modified groove or no groove
    Could also be a drilled hole behind the cam to relive pressure
    After 80 plus years of existence, who knows what has been done...

    Let us know what you found, J
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  23. Hello Richard . Do I ever, somehow I've wound up with three copies of his book but I thought he recommended that for full pressure engines. I'll read it again. Thanks.
     
  24. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Somehow, My question about this winfield head… was not clear. Look at the FIRST picture, with blue tape… under the raised compression ratio , i. e. - 6:1 C/R raised cr ?
    I’ve never seen that before. Anyone ??
    Q: Do all Winfield heads have this raised
     
  25. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Yes, Its pretty well established /known that the FIRST number that appears on the patent pending pad… is the head cr !
    No different on my cast iron head and on all aluminum winfield copies. NOT questioned.
    Again… look at first pic with blue tape.
    This raised head cr IS same cr as on pad just below the word WINFIELD ! Ive never noticed this before. Would you check your iron winfield for same situation. Thanks
     
  26. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Roger,
    Maybe check for easy things first, that is…
    -the fitting going thru side plate AND thru gasket. Is fitting in too far thereby blocking off oil free flow ?
    -has some thing /debris plugged line ?
    -has line kinked blocking oil flow ?
    Looks like braided line. Any obstruction at connections ?
    -check last connection, at head. Loosen and see if free flowing oil ! Work backward if not.
    -too large of supply line. Only need small line. Some have used very small orofice fittings to regulate pressure.. at head. Some pinch line to small opening. Some solder and drill smaller hole to regulate oil.
    Seems to me that 30 lbs… after filter… is plenty pressure , if small line to head is used.
    I have had Riley OHV (racing) heads where Riley only provided felt pads (oil soaked) for oiling.
    -How is your line system attached/connected inside rocker cover ?
    One last idea. Is pressure being lost DUE to going past side plate gasket. Maybe faulty /warped plate or bad gasket. I use a DOUBLE row of fasteners (aboveand below) at galley to try contain oil with high pressure oil pump. Learned from an old racer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
    Outback likes this.
  27. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 43

    4bangerbob
    Member
    from AB, Canada

     
  28. BangerBob, I'm beginning to think you are right about misaligned holes. I'm going to have to pull the side cover and look closer. Although I can remove the fitting and stick a 1/4" punch quite a ways into the hole.
     
  29. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 643

    railcarmover

    Not arguing that but you did cite the rest of serial number as a date code,its not.
     
  30. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 554

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Ok, Ill bite.
    What do you say that the ‘rest ‘ of the number represents ?
     

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