Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical ***June 2020 Banger Meet Thread - So Four So Good***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    If you don't race the A clutch is fine,check flywheel housing for run out and pressure plate fingers for correct height..toss a new disc in every time you open it,35 bucks is cheap insurance to prevent rework.
     
  2. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    my disc is specific to a s-10 in put (26 spline) . when its out (if needed ) i have it relined ........
     
  3. Likewise on all my cars - but over here they're none too cheap so I'm curious to see if there's an off the shelf diaphragm clutch that will work. Plus they tend to be lighter which is a 'good thing'.
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  4. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 113

    Dustyp489
    Member

     
  5. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 113

    Dustyp489
    Member

    What jets are you running stock is .35 . I was told to change mine to .51 or .42
     
  6. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 113

    Dustyp489
    Member

    I am running 81s with. 41 , Jim b book states .41 or .42 for the 81s . I have an A block 60 over with balance crank and 36 lb flywheel. D price 6:1 aluminum head and one Jim's R1 cam. Runs good for, electric fuel pump.
     
  7. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    Single Holley 94, winfield 7.5 red head, late b high lift cam, reds 4 into 2 header,B distributor 2psi rotary fuel pump.I dont race,Im looking for maximum performance at peak efficiency.Building a performance engine is like building an air pump,matching the airflow in and out with the fixed flow rate of the pump maximizes the pumps output.the fixed flow rate of the model a ford engine in stock or slightly modified form like you and I have flows at about 160 CFM,you can shade that a little higher with the volumetric efficiency increase afforded by the improvements.The Holley 94 flows at 170 cfm or so.When pulling fuel through the jets with two carbs if your jetted close generally wont cause an overfuel condition,the engine basically 'pulls' what it needs..however,the enrichener circuits,accelerator pumps and power valves are blind,they aren't affected by engine demand,only by operator input..this is where the problem with running dual carbs lies,the pumps push more fuel than the engine can handle.That's where progressive linkage comes into play,if you set them up to work in progression the second carb rolls on as demand increases.Once again,Im not racing,I'm street driving,with an eye to long engine life.
     
    Old Dawg, Dustyp489 and waxhead like this.
  8. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.


    i just dropped my compression for long life . 7-1 to 6-1 . alot more forgiving & fun as a daily driver
     
  9. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 22

    4bangerbob
    Member
    from AB, Canada

    I am going to drill an A crankshaft for oil pressure feed from the mains to the connecting rod brgs. I plan to do this on my engine lathe (see lay out picture). In reading the locations and dimensional position of the holes I am see holes should be drilled at 34 degrees off the centre of the con rod brgs. I have measured my crankshaft and drawn up with the 3/16" diameter holes and they come fairly close to breaking through at the instection between the bearing diameter and the throws from the main brg to the con rod brgs.

    Being that I have drilled a C crank before for pressure there seemed to be a little more meat so the feed holes were not so close to breaking through and on the center main the feed holes exited the bearing almost at the same point rather than about 5/16" apart as they appear to be on the A crank.

    Has anyone here drilled an A crank before? did you also use 3/16" drill or maybe drop down to 5/32" drill to gain some additional clearance? and correct that the holes on the centre main are split apart?

    thanks for your comments.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bob,
    I am not sure the "A" crank should be drilled. For a stock-ish 50 HP motor it may be fine.
    I have had the chance to look at a few broken "A" cranks, and the breaks pretty much followed the oil feed holes in the rod journal.
    This would lend me to think the amount of material removed is sufficient to cause enough of a stress riser that propagates the break.
    Depending on what your intentions are, I would seriously consider a "B" or "C" crank and use "B" rods.
    I would not grind the "A" journal mains onto the crank, instead have it ground to 1.850 dia and use inserts.

    Good luck, John
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  11. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,143

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    Pulled pan on the pickup last night to check clearances. Down to one shim on mains, two in the rods. Babbit looks pretty good, no cracks or anything. Found out I have one of those custom-balanced cam gears so project expanded some... 83311BF9-128B-46AC-A1E8-E62675FDA04F.jpeg
     
    waxhead, railcarmover and Old Dawg like this.
  12. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    my A crank has been drilled for like 10 yrs . not a racer but a daily driver . i ran a 7-1 lion head for several years with 126# per cylinder . just changed to 6-1 head for ez daily driver . no problems as of now
     
  13. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    Time to go metal..they are noisy but dont self destruct and clog oil pump pickup screen..
     
  14. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    johnneilson
    Member

    Steve,
    Yep, it has been done successfully.
    I don't think the issue is compression only, it is more than likely a combination of factors.
    Timing is probably one of the main and so is operating speed of the motor.

    OK, my opinion is based on simple concept. If you look at the rod journal of the "A" drill a 5/32" hole thru it, you are taking about 13% of the cross sectional area out of it. Based on ellipse of 34°
    This IMHO causes too much of a stress riser in the journal.
    Take into account, this is a full 1.500 dia journal, under size causes even more of a stress riser.

    When I have some time, I will model this up in FEA and we can look at the stress concentrations. But for now, I am reading the book on the Miller Dynasty. Fantastic the assumptions made in the 30's and 40's. And how the technology changed.

    John
     
    Jet96 likes this.
  15. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,143

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    I've got an alum. gear already. I was planning on doing a cam etc. later but this might be as good a time as any.
    -When the gear let go in my roadster, the backfires were extraordinary!
     
  16. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    [​IMG]
    Turning the spring loaded plunger into a thrust button lets you 'adjust' down the clatter some..those fiber gears steal power without you noticing ..the teeth wear,slowly degrading valve timing.

    Logic says reducing compression should extend life..what it does do is make the engine more tolerant of timing deviation,its why the manual distributor was effective with the stock compression.Bearing wear is caused by improper timing and torsional vibration,poor driving habits lend to it,like lugging the engine..Get a kick out of the purists who say higher compression destroys babbit..
     
    G Baese, Old Dawg and Jet96 like this.
  17. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    john , don't scare me please . all i know is that mine works . but hardly ever go over 3k . everyone has a V8 , thus my banger looking forward to your next post ........... steve
    "no salt " ??
     
  18. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,143

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    About timing-I like a distributor I got, a fellow in FL sells them. Pretty easy to work on, I had to carefully file a small divot out of one the slots, the flyweight pin would hang occasionally giving erratic reading. The advance slot limiter is a sliding stop with a lock screw. I made little marks to correspond to my timing marks on the damper. A little time consuming to set up, but worth doing. It takes a pretty small adjustment on the slot to + or- the total 4-5 degrees. I need to add a convenient way to oil the bottom bushing.
     
  19. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,143

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    Also on distributors- I have a rusty old (all five parts numbers intact) Mallory. Over a couple months of carefully soaking, I've gotten the top cap screws out and the shaft now turns. The rotor is absolutely stuck and I really don't want to risk breaking it. Has anyone dealt with this? Thanks
     
  20. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    johnneilson
    Member

    Steve,
    Don't be scared, just be conscious of it. There is a harmonic that happens about 3k and another at about 5k revs.
    I know the guys sometimes try too much timing on the dyno and break things like driveshafts and crankshafts.
    If you try to drive it like a V8, you are asking too much of it.

    Salt, I don't know. Reports are conflicting, imagine that.
    Also, big concern for virus contamination, in hotels and restaurants. We will see.

    J
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  21. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    Got a good B distributor and an FSI..run the B with modern points and condensor with a bosch blue coil,it "maps" nice with a timing light and a cheap impulse tach dwell meter..the FSI sits on the shelf,I like points..
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  22. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    FSI self advance 10* at idle
     
  23. Shutter Speed
    Joined: Feb 2, 2017
    Posts: 823

    Shutter Speed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Doing routine lube on stock chassis.
    How much grease do I pump into the U-joint housing?
    How about the rear axle bearing?
    Simple minds are simply perplexed!
     
  24. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 397

    guitarguy
    Member

    I'll round out my month with my baby banger. My T block and Fronty fresh from cleaning. Slow progress, but progress none the less.

    Speedster project 156.1.jpg

    Speedster project 158.1.jpg

    Speedster project 159.1.jpg
     
    barrnone50, G Baese, Old Dawg and 5 others like this.
  25. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 439

    railcarmover

    Cant put too much in the ujoint housing,you can basically pack it full.Be sparing with the axle bearings,three or four pumps is good..grease the bearing,dont push the grease past the seal.
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  26. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,105

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    *** john , work all year to have a bug stop most all activity suxxxx . i know that lockdown is necessary , but sure is borrringgg . we will hope for the best . i am aware of the problems , thus back down on compression , fsi timing @ 10* @ idle ............ be safe & good luck ........ steve
     
  27. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    johnneilson
    Member

    Steve,
    not all boring in the shop, just have nothing to show yet.
    as to your timing, it is not the initial that kills the motor, it is the advance.
    try backing the timing off a couple degrees and see if it runs the same at 2k revs.
    if it does, back it down again. once you know where the advance wants to be, then you can work on the curve.
    I have been working on dist machine lately, the advance curves are all over the place depending on the motor.
    Spark plug placement is important in FH motor, stock needs more advance, closer to bores needs less.
    Research up some documentation on the timing of Ford "A" and "T" motors, performance was not the priority.

    J
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  28. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 353

    Jiminy
    Member

  29. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 22

    4bangerbob
    Member
    from AB, Canada

    Thanks John and steve for your comments.
    This motor is going to be used in a street driven car, not for racing or hill climb, just easy street driving to get the car back on the road.

    The motor will have stock crank and babbit bearings, +.100 pistons, winfield crowsfoot head, either winfield or stromberg single down draft, mallory dual point distributor, headers, B cam, lightened flywheel ~37 pounds, oil pump modified for increase volume. Motor may see 2500 rpm.

    I wanted oil to the con rods, based on my experience of losing a con rod bearing many years ago with dip system, and since I am going to run pressure to the mains it is fairly simple to run pressure to the con rod brgs.

    I did check out the reduction in area, and based on 5/32 hole with reduced con rod bearing diameter of 1.470, area of the oil hole is .0331 sq.in. and con rod bearing has area of 1.697 sq. inches so having the hole will reduce area by 2%

    So I will give it a try, if the crank lets go it will most likely mean my right foot was feeling a little heavy......

    every one south of the 49th, please take care.
     
  30. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bob, you are correct the area of a .156 hole is .0331 sq in.
    What you are not thinking is that this hole crosses the journal all the way through. so .156 x 1.47 is 0.229 sq in, subtracted from 1.697 sq in.

    It sounds like you will be OK given HP and speed expectations.
    Like Steve says, his has lasted a long time being driven reasonably.
    I just cannot do that.........

    Be safe, John
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.