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Technical ***June 2018 Banger Meet - What's New With Your Banger?***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, May 31, 2018.

  1. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Interesting discussion, appreciate everyone's input.
     
  2. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 238

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    If you remove your drag link and set your steering box dead center and your wheels straight ahead, then measure the distance from the steering arm end to the pitman arm end, how does that compare to the length of your drag link?
     
  3. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 195

    lake_harley
    Member

    Maybe I didn't express it very well, but the point I was trying to make is that the pivot point of the drag link/steering arm is slightly forward of the vertical centerline of the axle. The three points of the pitman arm/drag link pivot, drag link/steering arm pivot, and king pin is what I was saying needs to form a 90 degree angle when viewed from above. Maybe that came through, maybe not. The mechanics of how it's all constructed isn't really the issue I was addressing, it's the geometry of the connection/pivot points. Honestly, I think we're on the same page just saying things differently.

    Lynn
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  4. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 238

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    I think you are right about us saying the same thing. I was caught up on the different number of turns to full lock on each side. That indicates to me that the steering box isn't in the center of it's travel when the wheels are in the center of theirs, which led me to wondering if the drag link is the right length. Stands to reason that, with everything centered, the angles would all be 90 degrees.
     
  5. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Well, I played with the steering tonight and it appears that moving the eye of the steering arm on the spindle about 3/4" forward of the centerline of the axle brings everything into synch. Surprising how small a change at the steering arm affects the amount of steering wheel rotation. Really appreciate everyone's thoughts and input. Was great help. Thanks.
     
  6. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 184

    dmdeaton
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    good to know. I am getting ready to attach my pitman and drag link in the next few days. Although, I still cannot wrap my head around why this would create a problem like you stated. I will play around with mine somewhat before I nail things down. Maybe I can recreate. I am good at making problems!
     
  7. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    I'm not really sure where a stock model a steering arm sits in relation to the centerline of a stock axle. I am using a 33 axle which gives about an inch or so drop. The stock model a drag link will now be about a half inch short so will need to make a new one. I don't know maybe just lots of different parts and wear in the steering box adds up to these things. I know now that very small changes in the steering box and linkages makes a big change in steering wheel rotation. I am very good at making small problems into really big ones.
     
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  8. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 195

    lake_harley
    Member

    I really wish I knew a way to explain the issue without drawing a picture on my shop floor with a piece of chalk, but I don't. I even tried to search for a video or explaination but apparently the combination of words I used weren't proper "geometry talk".

    Let's try this though......

    Draw a circle, let's say 12" in diameter and mark it like a compass, N,S,E,W with North at the top. Now draw a line straight down from the East position. If you move the end of the line from where it touches the "East" position down along the radius of the circle exactly 2" of vertical movement (2" below E/W and parallel to it), make a line to the new "attachment point" of the line to the center of the circle. That pie shape is the number of degrees 2" of vertical movement produced from the East/West line. Now pull that vertical line's attachment point down 2" more of vertical travel and draw a line from that point to the center again. You will see that the second 2" of vertical movement made a larger angle "pie piece" than the first 2" of movement; more degrees of travel than the first 2" of vertical movement. There's a little more involved, but put simply the radius of the circle is the arc of your spindle's steering arm/drag link pivot point, and the vertical line is your drag link. As your drag link pulls the steering arm around it's arc the number of degrees the wheel turns will vary as the drag link moves towards or away from 90 degrees from the line between your kingpin and steering arm/drag link pivot point.

    I doubt my description is very easy to follow, but draw it out, think about it, and see if it makes the light go on in your head. I wish I were more computer savvy to do a cool drawing to show what I tried to describe. Maybe some computer guru who understands what I described will either put it into a drawing or an engineer will give a simple easier to understand description of the geometry.

    Believe me, I'm not trying to come across in a smarty pants way.....I'm really not all that smart.

    BTW....the drag link on my '31 A does indeed angle outward from the pitman arm to the steering arm, and the steering arm/drag link pivot point is about 3/4" to 1" (just a guess) ahead of the centerline of the axle with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That produces the desired 90 degree angle with the steering box centered.

    Man....I just hope something of this makes sense o_O

    Lynn

    Added 6/6/18 - I realized the original drawing that I described had a dimension that would have made the rest of my description impossible. I originally suggested starting with a 6" diameter circle, but to make the rest of the description make any sense it should have been 12" diameter. I've made that correction. It still may not be written in a way that will help anyone, but at least it's not impossible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
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  9. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,714

    V4F
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    from middle ca.

    late to the party , but here now
     
  10. callcoy
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 99

    callcoy
    Member
    from Nashville

    Went over to Blytheville Arkansas to take in a flying mile meet put on by the East Coast Timing Association (ECTA) at their new venue at a old SAC Base. Hoping to catch a Banger or two in action but none were to be found. The closest was a 24 stud flathead V8 blown in a Fox body Mustang that ran 137 mph.

    This strip is fast, traction is unreal, 2 bikes over 200 at 208 and 224, Big Red Cameo posted a 240 run a Vette ran 228. There was a steam powered bike that worked up to 80 mph but there was a 4 banger Allis Chaumber (?) tractor supposedly powered by by a Budda engine. Driven by a lady who worked it up to 108 mph, who says bangers can't run hard. I was down near the finish line and she spun it after clearing the lights traveling backwards into one of the soy bean fields on the the old base about 250 feet then drove it out.

    These paved (concrete) courses are not only fast but compared to a dry lake course are maintanance free, no course moving like we have to do at El Mirage. Next stop Bonneville, see you there!
     
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  11. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 195

    lake_harley
    Member

    I was there too, on Saturday. First time at a LSR event and loved it. A friend who went along with me isn't really a car guy but said he would be interested in going again. We watched most of the time from the starting line, but also spent some time at the 1 mile point by the ECTA trailer. It was cool seeing the cars at the big end, especially the Big Red Camaro at 240+! I plan to go back in September. From what I heard on Saturday the car count would have been a lot larger but there was another event that pulled away some cars. Did you hear any speculation about possible car count at the late September event?

    With something like the ECTA flying mile event going on just a 2 hour drive away from where I live it would have been a shame to not be there! Were you running something callcoy?

    Lynn
     
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  12. callcoy
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 99

    callcoy
    Member
    from Nashville

    I had to leave from Nashville at 3 AM, caught breakfast in Jackson and made it there about 8:30, they were late starting but you are right the attendance was down. The plus side was you could get a run in almost any time you wanted.

    I was in the maroon Chev. PU a Silver Vette pulled in next to us at the starting line. Another plus about this meet was the available PortaPotties, barely used but there seemed to be about 8 Ladies to each Guys facility.

    No, I did not have a car there, my daughter and I are involved with Greg Martinez and his Lakester, my daughter does the pre-inspections now at Bonneville. Hope I haven't wandered to far from the intended purpose of this site.
     
  13. 2014-06-05 17.47.54 (1).jpg I'M IN! At Sonoma Raceway (Sears Point) last weekend we started last (because I hadn't yet been accepted as a "Gold Medallion" car) in a 12 car race. I turned in a qualifying time of over 10 seconds better than my previous time at that track; and 3rd behind two ERA's (pre-wwII) Gran Prix cars). Nevertheless in only 9 laps (that was the race) I was able to get within a couple of hundred yards of the third place car (a Ford 24 Stud V8 powered Sprint Car. Another "Force" for "Bangers"!
     
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  14. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,129

    winduptoy
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    IMG_20180602_083839990_HDR.jpg IMG_20180602_083821498_HDR.jpg
    Lots of bangers at this year's Dirt Drags in Monte Vista Colorado. Im guessing between 40 and 45 out of 120 registered for the drags.

    Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
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  16. winduptoy
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    winduptoy
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    Dannerr, Binger, Old Dawg and 2 others like this.
  17. winduptoy
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    winduptoy
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    Dannerr, Old Dawg and barrnone50 like this.
  18. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
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    winduptoy
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  19. winduptoy
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    winduptoy
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  20. rockman29
    Joined: Jul 2, 2006
    Posts: 80

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    I’ve been building a 27 T roadster on a model A chassis for the past two years. Body was dragged out of a hay loft in Maine. Had been there +30 yrs., originally from the Smokey mountains TN. Chassis came out of a collection in ME. Gentleman had pulled the body off it more than 20 yrs ago to build a hot rod and chassis had been sitting in his barn every since. C7DD2730-26F9-45A7-B7F2-CEC7FC7A750E.jpeg Everything mechanical has been rebuilt. Finally took a test drive and tuned it in last Saturday. Basically stock motor with oversized intake valves, touring cam, Stromberg 97, model B distributed. Lite car, pulls real well. Couple small items to adjust and continue the shake down. Truck in back is my friends 30 roadster pick-up. All stock and he drives the wheels off of it.
     
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  21. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,129

    winduptoy
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  22. winduptoy
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    winduptoy
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  23. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,714

    V4F
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    from middle ca.

    gather your $$$$$$$$$$ and jump out there .
     
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  25. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,064

    Crazydaddyo
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    Vic King wasn't a big fan of Gemsa.

    .
     
  26. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,129

    winduptoy
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    Tell me more...
     
  27. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,064

    Crazydaddyo
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    Everything that I have been told is second hand and although it is from good friends of Vic, I prefer not to spread rumors.

    Let's just say that one barrowed something and never returned it. Then sold product with his name on it.

    .

    Sent from my SM-J320P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 244

    hardtimesainit
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    Well, 'rumors', 'gossip', hearsay or whatever, it is hard to ignore such when it is so voluminous and from so many old timers who would be in position to know. Especially when respected old timers tell first hand experiences and knowledge (from personal dealings), that this guy was unscrupulous and not trustworthy.
    Myself, I've seen a seemingly endless product line with his name attached. I've always thought that that was good, not thinking on whether any item(s) were the product of his 'ideas' or ideas ripped off of someone else ! But, that would matter to me personally and I'm sure it would matter to those said to have been done wrong !
     
  29. callcoy
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 99

    callcoy
    Member
    from Nashville

    I don't want to get into the Gemsa thing, but do want to thank you for all of the photos of the dirt drags.
     
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  30. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 68

    Dustyp489
    Member

    Have a question for you all ? How do I know what size spacers I need on my valve springs. I'm running stock Springs and valves which are all new with a 6:1 Aluminum head with a R1 cam from Jim B. Engine is 60 over.
     

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