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Technical ***June 2018 Banger Meet - What's New With Your Banger?***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, May 31, 2018.

  1. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 276

    Jiminy
    Member

    Coming Events: (PM Jiminy with additions/corrections)

    June 1-3 Hot Rod Dirt Drags
    Movie Manor, Monte Vista, Colorado


    June 2-3 ECTR-LSR THE ARKANSAS 1-MILE CHALLENGE
    The event is held at the Arkansas Aeroplex (The Blytheville-Gosnell Regional Airport) at 4701 Memorial Drive in Blytheville, Arkansas.

    June 8-10 The Race of Gentlemen
    Wildwood, New Jersey


    June 20-23 MTFCI Speedster Chapter 15th Annual Tour:
    Wednesday, June 20 through Saturday, June 23.
    Grand Rapids Michigan, near Lake Michigan and the Gilmore Car Museum.
    Official Page for Registration: https://speedsterrally.com/
    Chapter Page with LOTS of pics from previous rallies: http://speedsterchapter.org/


    July 6 - 8 F.A.S.T.
    A gathering at an unnamed ranch Fri. 6th during the day.
    A "cook your Own" steak dinner at the San Luis Obispo Elks lodge Friday July 6th night..
    Santa Margarita Ranch "Trials" July 7th,
    "Early Ford" show in Atascadero Lake Park Sunday July 8th
    REGISTRATION INFORMATION:
    PLEASE CONTACT
    Phil Farber 805-544-8856 E-MAIL farbslo@charter.net
    https://www.hotforhotfours.com/documents/santamargarita2018.pdf


    September 14-16, Hot Rod Hill Climb
    Central City, Colorado


    September 28-30 ECTR-LSR THE ARKANSAS 1-MILE CHALLENGE
    The event is held at the Arkansas Aeroplex (The Blytheville-Gosnell Regional Airport) at 4701 Memorial Drive in Blytheville, Arkansas.

    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:


    Jim Brierley's book 4-bangers! And me! is a must read book for all banger enthusiasts. US customers send $24.00 (includes S/H), PayPal welcome, to:
    Jim Brierley, 39480 Colleen Way, Temecula, CA 92592.
    email: jimb4e4@gmail.com
    phone: 951-695-7313.


    Here is a list of most of the prior monthly banger meet links:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498


    Banger basics. another info link list:
    http://www.fordgarage.com/


    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    The link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/may-bang-er-thread.470853/page-4#post-5212157
    and this link shows the missing image from the above post
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-work-on-bangers.1010716/page-3#post-11427055


    The 4 Banger hot rod picture thread.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-4-banger-hot-rod-picture-thread.997051/


    Model B rod bearing insert numbers
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6992484#post6992484


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://web.archive.org/web/20120415...e.com/tuning-with-a-vacuum-gauge-spg-148.html


    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6638461#post6638461


    Helpful Model A tools and tips:
    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html


    Gary in MN's late model Malory distributor conversion for A/B engine:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9147025&postcount=109


    Elrod's stuck head tech:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487


    Model A generator to alternator conversion:
    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html


    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:
    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculator.php


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173


    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"
    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?access_key=key-w2bcjicdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465


    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10


    T-5 5 speed in a Torque Tube:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256226


    New Banger Block in the Works
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/new-banger-block-in-the-works.616056/
     
  2. blgitn
    Joined: Sep 13, 2011
    Posts: 102

    blgitn
    Member

    Happy Summer all!
     
  3. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,479

    noboD
    Member

  4. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,979

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

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  5. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,467

    Binger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wyoming

    Checking in from the hot rod dirt drags!

    IMG_1662.JPG

    Having a little parking lot dinner and watching the sunset.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Dannerr, waxhead, burl and 5 others like this.
  6. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 20,176

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    Nor Cal: June 3 / Sunday - Mother Lode Swap Meet, Gold Country Fairgrounds/Auburn, presented by Mother Lode Model T Club 916-599-0059 - know a guy that will be there with a couple of V8-60 full motors minus heads
     
  7. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 845

    johnneilson
    Member

  8. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,078

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Something you deal with on these things, when you can't find one, you make one.

    20180601_155735.jpg

    Sent from my SM-J320P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Dannerr, winduptoy and ROCKER77 like this.
  9. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 216

    dmdeaton
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I need to make one 1/4 inch longer than stock
     
  10. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 478

    walls
    Member

    Last month I was trying to figure out why my engine was smoking.
    But was running out of time, trying to get ready for trog.

    Had this “rebuilt” one in the corner I pulled from a rolling chassis I bought last year.
    Decided to throw it in.

    0B4B5CAC-AF08-4A10-B25A-B057BBF63071.jpeg

    Pulled the head to see what it was.
    Snyder’s 6:1, got lucky
    Runs really well, off to the races..

    DC587C48-0528-47E0-B293-9F33FB8F004B.jpeg
     
    Dannerr, Tim, gas pumper and 4 others like this.
  11. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,979

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Threw in the towel today and put the Zipper in the storage garage along with a box of parts and put a cover on the whole mess. The woodriff key on the crank started to self destruct due to an aftermarket pully with a sloppy fit. Unable to put a new key in due to the damage. Have to pull the engine in order to make sure the crank is ok after beating and banging on it. I have the 29 CCPU to drive until I decide what to do, so all is not lost.
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  12. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 845

    johnneilson
    Member

    Denis,
    I had a harmonic balance beat the key off in a motor one time.
    Had to pull the girdle completely to replace the key.
    McMaster carries an alloy version of the key which is all I use anymore.
    J
     
    Dannerr, Old Dawg and winduptoy like this.
  13. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 216

    dmdeaton
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Trying to get on the street this summer!

    20180523_203132.jpg
     
    Outback, ratamahata, Jet96 and 7 others like this.
  14. Dustyp489
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 73

    Dustyp489
    Member

    Checking in.
    Think having a link to the t5 with open driveshaft would help a lot of readers from the misfortune of the ones other's have had.
    Skip
     
  15. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 276

    Jiminy
    Member

    Do you have the link?
     
  16. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Need some assistance. I have a 28 roadster I'm building in kind of a dry lakes style with a warmed up diamond A block. My question has to do with steering setup. I have a 33 axle with 37 round back spindles and I am using the original Model A steering box. On the left spindle I am using a hairpin style steering arm. The ackerman is all correct which causes the wheel on the inboard side of the turn to turn further than the outboard. Since this is the case the steering wheel will rotate approx 1 1/4 turns from the straight position to full left turn and approx 3/4 of a turn when turning to the right. I'm thinking the ackerman changes the throw of the steering arm on a left turn or a right. Does anyone know if a stock model a steering wheel rotates the same number of turns left and right? Or am I really missing something? Any thoughts or assistance would be greatly appreciated.
     
  17. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 478

    walls
    Member

    I think you’re missing something, or I am.

    I have about 1-1/4 each way.
    Is something binding?

    The steering box doesn’t really care where the steering wheel is, it has only so much range.
    In the middle approximately, is when the wheels are straight.
     
  18. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Hmmm, nothing is binding I can turn the wheels from stop to stop very easily by hand with the drag link disconnected. My only thought was with the steering arm on the left spindle it moves further when turned to the left than turned to the right since the left wheel turns further to the left than to the right due to the ackerman angles. I don't know I must have something goofed up, it can't be this complicated. They been doing it since the 20's.
     
  19. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 478

    walls
    Member

    I’m surprised at what I still screw up after so many years doing this.

    I try real hard to be mediocre.
     
  20. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    I'm right there with ya!
     
  21. modelAsteve
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 333

    modelAsteve
    Member

    Got the bearings or king pins wrong
     
  22. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    king pin bearing?? King pin is just a pin. Not sure what your trying to say.
     
  23. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,370

    97
    Member

    If you look at a 32-34 steering system you will notice that the steering arm is not centered over the axle in the straight ahead position.
    The arm is ahead of the axle when the wheel and the steering box are centered, so you need to copy this with the hairpin.
    Check out Dennis Lacy's rebuild on his 32 pickup here. . With pictures
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...d-updated-1-11-16.970252/page-5#post-10991010
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  24. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 248

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    Did you change the steering column angle? I did that and had to heat and bend the pitman arm. In essence, the changed angle of the box made the drag link too long so that the center of motion of the steering arm wasn't the center of motion of the pitman arm, if that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  25. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Stock model a frame, stock model a steering box in stock location. 33 axle is basically same as a model a except has about a 1 inch drop. 40 Ford brakes on roundback spindles. Something weird is going on cause this has been done way to many times for it to not work. I'll keep slugging away. Appreciate everyones input.
     
  26. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,370

    97
    Member

  27. deuce295
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 220

    deuce295
    Member

    Interesting info, thanks 97. I did notice that the pitman arm and drag link were not 90 deg so perhaps it is the drag link steering arm geometry I need to play with. Appreciate the input.
     
    Tim likes this.
  28. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 250

    lake_harley
    Member

    Below (in bold italics) is what I wrote after 10:00 last night, but I hesitated to post until I could verify the thoughts I had.

    Without going to my shop at 10:14 PM to look at my '31, doesn't the drag link angle outward to the steering arm at the left side of the axle on a Model A? If it indeed does, and the hairpin style steering arm on the left spindle is centered over the axle when straight ahead, the arc and travel will not be the same turning from side to side. I can look tomorrow, but I suspect the drag link connection on Model A's stock steering arm's connection point to the drag link is slightly forward of the axle centerline when the wheels are straight ahead. That would give a 90 degree angle between the king pin/drag link connection, and the drag link's outward angle. That would even up the number of turns of the steering wheel from side to side.

    I still haven't gone to my shop to verify my thoughts, but the link that 97 posted would seem to back up my thinking so I've gone out on a limb and posted it now. Here's the statement from 97's link that would seem to back me up and the link also includes photos..... "The built in steering arm on 1932 - 1934 spindles, when viewed from directly above with the spindle in the straight ahead position, the upper steering arm angles away from the center of the axle and puts the center line of the drag link attaching hole 3/4" forward of the axle center line. This creates a 90 degree angle between the drag link and spindle steering arm. Likewise, the lower ends of 1932 and 1933 - 1934 pitman arms are twisted to also create a 90 degree angle between the pitman arm and drag link. This produces equal steering geometry and effort when turning left or right."

    Lynn
     
  29. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,370

    97
    Member

    When I read Dennis' build/rebuild posts a couple of years ago I compared his method to how I have always done things. Most of it was similar but obviously I picked up a couple of new ideas.
    So tonight after I posted for you I got carried away and read on through the thread. ( It's a nasty wet early winter weekend here in New Zealand, so I have an excuse to hibernate for the day). Anyway to the point; I got to post 176 and had another memory flash which probably completes the picture for you.
    The whole thread is worth reading , if you have time but here is post 176.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...d-updated-1-11-16.970252/page-6#post-11008191
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  30. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,370

    97
    Member

    Yes the position of the Model A steering box and the 32-34 steering box compared to the axle and spindle are indeed different, however the geometry should remain the same. If you make an adjustable drag link, so you can adjust the pitman arm to be at right angles to the drag link when the steering box is centralised at its "neutral" or high point and angle the wishbone so that it is 3/4 " forward of the axle centerline, I think you will get closer to even steering. You may need to
    Yes but the Model A steering arms are totally different, the arm for the drag link and the tie rod on the drivers side is all a very complicated one piece forging which is removable and locates in the A spindle with a taper and a nut , the drag link part curves around under the brake rods and terminates right out near the perch , effectively keeping the drag link at right angles. However quite different to the separate arm on the 32-34 axles.
    [​IMG]
     

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