*** June 2013 BANGER MEET ***

Morning guys,
I am collecting parts for a gow job style modified. I have a line on a complete, rebuilt, A banger motor. Just using bolt on stuff, a head, better ignition, twin carbs and a header, what would I be getting for HP? Just a very rough guess. I have no knowledge or experience of these motors, so just looking for a ballpark figure.
Cheers,
Stewart.

 

45, maybe 50 hp if you very carefully match the ports and mind all the simple stuff Probably choke it with too much carburation at first. Keep your bearings adjusted. Carbs and a header ain't much good with out at least a B cam!

 

In last months thread I posted about the cracked block in my 28 tudoor.

I didn't rush into anything and mulled the situation over a bit and during this time found a friend of mine had a model B engine stashed away that was surplus to his needs.

A rebuild never run engine.... Thomas head, new billet (hot) cam, counterbalanced crank, big valves and on and on.... Ya just never know what lurks around the corner.

Now to figure out how to patch this into my 28 without too much pain.

Regards,
-Joemac

 

Thank you so much. That was exactly the info I was looking for.
Cheers,
Stewart.

 

The three "C"s are the key to banger performance. Cam, Compression, & Carbs. You can do two and get some benefit, but you can almost double the increase if you do all three. Don't forget to get adjustable lifters with a foot that is 1.125" in dia.

.

 

So I am starting to get ready to put a new engine for my truck. I'm buying a rebuilt counterbalanced crank A engine with lightened flywheel. I think it has a b cam. Currently still has the updraft. My basic plans call for a more cam, compression and carb. I'm leaning towards a snyder 6:1 head. mainly because I don't like mixing aluminum and iron. Is there another recommendation? I have a Mallory distributor for it I plan to use. I'd like to slip in a Winfield SU-1A cam. I have a bunch of stromberg 97's and a few holley 94's. But I am worried that I might need 81's? should I run single or dual carbs? Also I am thinking about split exhaust manifolds. Thoughts? should I just run a header? I'll be backing this all with a Cling's adapted v8 trans. Any other thoughts?

 

Split manifold's sound like a tractor. 97's will be faster at top end. Find me any hot rodder over , say, 60 or 65 that ran 81's, maybe I should say racer. If you think you might be running a single carb then run a Breirley SU1R, SU1A is for guys that want to go race and fast. SU1R is a good cam for street use, not too radical idle but good mid range torque and top end. I bought a Mike Hart SU1R and it had a good sounding idle but just didn't compare with the Brierley as to power. The Mike Hart SU1R cam was the prototype for the "Scalded Dog" cam. I ran a Brieley SU1R with dual Winfield B's and 1 5/8's intakes With a , pardon me, repop Aluminum Winfield head to 76 MPH in the 1/4. You can stack all the carburetors on that you want but if the engine cannot breath it ain't gonna work. With 1 3/4"s intakes, BB Winfields, Brierley SU1A cam, Same old Aluminum head, an a couple more little mods here n there such as a stock B distributor with lighter springs the same car ran 82 in the 1/4.

 

I was running a basically stock B short block that I bought from a guy that took it out of a 1933 commercial truck that he was hotrodding. No mileage info, but the cylinders were worn with .010" belly in the middle. Stock valves with 1/4" spacers under stock springs. Intake and exhaust ports ported for smother flow. A Brierly SU-1R cam with aluminum timing gear and adjustable lifters with 1.125" dia feet. .040" over Federal Mogal pistons with modern (thin) rings. All babbit lower end. Flywheel lightened to 49 lbs. Stock oiling system with not filter. Oil pump modified for volume but not pressure. FSI electronic ignition with centrifugal advance. Original ALUMINUM Wieand head with 7.5:1 compression. Lakes style megaphone header with a dual intake running dual stock jetted Stromberg 97's. I ran this car in my car for about 4 years on the street and drag strip for @ 10,000 miles. I had to change the head gasket about 5 times in that time.

I don't think I would do this to an A engine. If I were you I would run the 6:1 head with a SU-1R cam and the 1.125 foot adjustable lifters, 1/4" spacers under new stock valve springs, aluminum timing gear, tube header, single Stromberg 97 or better yet 48. Lighten the flywheel at least 15 lbs. and run a flathead V-8 pressure plate.

There is nothing wrong with running Aluminum and iron. I'm running an aluminum radiator, head, and water inlet. I also run a ground strap from the radiator to the frame and one from the engine block to the frame. I also run a coolant mix of 70% distilled water and 30% antifreeze. When I pulled the engine down recently, there was no sign of corrosion or aluminum erosion anywhere.


.

 

I know it`s July BUT, how much would a basic setup like this be putting out ?
And would that be a gain all across the rpm band ?

 

It is still June here in the US.

I think with a good fresh build, I would say 65-70 hp. It had good torque and acceleration all the way up to @ 3,600 rpm. The small intake valves are the biggest obstacle. The original question was based on an existing build. If you were building a new engine larger intakes are a must for more performance.

.

 

Sounds a lot like my build...Winfield 6:1 cast iron head, SU-1R cam, Winfield SR-B carb (roughly between a single 81 and 97), 36# flywheel with V8 clutch. Should be enough to make a T RPU scoot along pretty well.

 

Shoot, you quoted my june/july blooper. How can I edit that now!
I´m on vacation, please cut me some slack !

Thanks for the info. I`m trying to suck it all in.

Have anyone tried modifying two stock intakes and using two stock carbs?
For a 70hp application that doesn´t sound to bad to me. Cool idea at least.
Not sure if variabal linkage like a double pumper setup would be best or maybe
better to have them both work each port simultanously like motorcycle carb.

A variabel linkage with one carb closed at idle and cruising would make the stock choke and gav adjuster still be able to work which I think would be kinda cool.

 

Thanks for the input guys, I'd be pretty happy with 70hp. I guess I should mention that we think it's a H and H engine.... It might have larger valves already. But I won't know until I tear it apart for a look.

 

also does anyone have actual specs on various different cams for A's and B's?

 

I found a list of Mr B's available cams

BRIERLEY CAMS
39480 Colleen Way
Temecula , Ca. 92592-8438
951-695-3713
[email protected]

DIRECT ACTING (FLATHEAD) CAMS
No. duration lift int. exh. (Clearances)

B 255 .302 012 014 excellent for mild eng.
C 260 .322 012 014 needs good core

All of the cams listed below need other engine modifications in order to take advantage of their capabilities. The "more" cam you use, the more modifications needed. This includes bigger or more carbs, headers, bigger valves, better ignition, etc. Idle gets progressively worse. The best single modification needed to boost performance in a Model 'A' is to increase the compression ratio, next is a bigger carburetor or multiple carbs.

1R 266 .350 010 012 Winfield grind - fast action, decent idle

270 270 .355 012 014

274 274 .350 012 014

M-28 T 280 .355 012 014 Idle starts getting rough

1A 285 .362 010 012 Winfield grind - good competition cam

285V 286 .385 012 014 competition only

410 FI 288 .410 Good top end, Bonneville or Lakes

290 290 .360 012 014

295V 296 .391 015 015 no low end power

270V 278 .324 012 014 flathead or Cragar (1.25:1 rockers)

280V 280 .336 012 014 fair idle, flathead or Cragar

VALVE SPRINGS
Stock installed spring length is approx. 2½ inches. Spring pressure at that length is approximately 32 lbs. Following is a chart giving spring pressures at different lengths. (Model A springs). A Metal cam gear is recommended on all performance grinds and is a good idea even with a stock cam. An aluminum gear works well and are not noisy as some claim.

LENGTH PRESSURE
2 3/8" 40 # (Recommended for stock B or C cam)
2 1/4" 52 # Note: A spacer made from 3/4" water pipe
2 1/8" 62 # works nicely and will stay in place if
2" 73 # cut off squarely, such as done in a lathe.
1 7/8" 83 #

Coil bind occurs at approx. 1 1/2" (with A springs) 60 lbs. pressure, on the seat, is recommended for most "street" cams/engines. 90 lbs. is recommended for racing, a different type of spring is needed for racing engines in order to achieve this pressure.

Cheers

Juggs

 

For your sake, I hope it isn't from Hack & Hatchet. If it is, make sure you check it very thoroughly.

.

 

Here is a list of all of Jim's cams

 

Which of the cams on that sheet are the SU-1A, and SU1-R?

Herb

 

Great....what's wrong with them?

 

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1A 285 .362 010 012 Winfield grind


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I and many others have had issues with the quality of their builds. I've stated mine here before.

.

 

Bummer. I'm planning on pulling it all the way apart to check it all out anyways. Hopefully I can catch any issues and correct them....Or better yet, hopefully it's from another more reputable builder.

 

Got a question for you guys. When I bought my A the motor was supposedly rebuilt but it was a estate sale so no way of knowing for sure. When I got it home I pulled the side cover and it was clean as a whistle. I did a compression check (cold) and got the following
58, 58, 65, 60. Stock motor,head ect, it seems to run fine. I changed the oil. The old oil was very clean.
On to my question. I would like to soup it up a little. I was thinking 6:1 head, downdraft intake with a Holly 94, header and a mild cam.
Any other suggestions? I know you can go crazy on one of these things if you want. I want the motor to last but want some more pep!
The car is a fenderless coupe.

Thanks,
Todd


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Lighter flywheel and V-8 pressure plate.

.

 

Ok, I understand the lightened flywheel will lessen the rotating mass. What is gained by using the V8 pressure plate?
Todd


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Lighter weight, more clamping pressure, easier operation.

.

 

Is the V8 pressure plate a direct swap? What years? Thanks


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No, the flywheel has to be machined for it. The most common swap is the 8N tractor pressure plate, but it lacks the centrifugal weights that the 35-41 pressure plates have. If at all possible, find a 35-41 V8 pressure plate.

 

i cut 20# , balanced , v8 clutch on mine ......

 

Was there a noticeable improvement after doing this? Todd


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