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Projects Jumping in the deep end

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by trevorsworth, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So if the gas tank is clean, the filter screen in the tank was clean, the fuel lines are not blocked and the sediment bowl is clean, and the carburetor isn't the problem... why won't fuel flow? :confused:
     
  2. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,787

    flatford39
    Member

    You can't tel if the tank is clean by looking thru the gas cap. There three baffles in the tank. You are just looking at the middle chamber. You might have the remains of an old mouse nest in the chamber where the gas outlet is. The only way to clean it is to have it boiled out at a radiator shop. They are around and you may have to drive a little to get there but it's worth it for the piece of mind. Above all try avoiding snake oil remedies like gas tank sealer.
     
  3. Have you removed the fitting/screen from the bottom of the tank to be sure it is clean and complete (not crushed, etc)? Pull the screen and see how fast it drains. Also, some ball valves have a very small flow path which could be restricting the gravity feed. Since you've checked flow with the gas cap in place, it has to be something involving the screen or valve.
    Good luck!
     
  4. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know I can't see past the baffles, but I can see the fuel outlet through the gas cap and there is definitely nothing blocking it or restricting flow. I have the tank out of the car right now and have been filling it and letting it drain with and without the petcock. When I capture the water in a container there's no debris floating in the water, it's as crystal clear as it was when it went in. The vinegar was clean when I drained it this morning too.

    I extensively cleaned the tank when I first got it, I'm just doing this to make double sure the gas didn't break anything loose.
    Yep, the petcock and the filter screen were both new parts that I installed. My assumption was that gasoline had broken some crud loose and the screen had become clogged but it wasn't restricted in any way. The petcock is fine too, at least as far as I can tell.

    I am convinced there are no obstructions. There has got to be something creating suction. Fuel flows all the way through the entire system if the line is open on the end, but when it's installed it just seems to trickle down to the carb. When I pull it out, there's a delay of several seconds before fuel begins to flow free. It should be pouring gas immediately when I yank the line out.

    The only part in the system right now that isn't brand new/rebuilt is the sediment bowl. I had a brand new sediment bowl but it leaked the first time I installed it and come to find out the threads had pulled off just from being snugged down because it's pot metal. The sediment bowl is an early cast iron type with a drain cock on the bottom. There are no flow obstructions in the sediment bowl that I can see and I have tested it extensively. It does have a very slight leak but we are talking about a drop every once in a while.
     
  5. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,787

    flatford39
    Member

    Did you test it with the gas cap on and with it off?? Sounds like it may be a venting issue. Does it have a flame arrestor in the fill opening?? If so try screwing it out and remove it.
     
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  6. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Vent issue was my first thought, but it happens with the cap on or off. There's nothing in the fill opening.
     
  7. Maicobreako
    Joined: Jun 25, 2018
    Posts: 127

    Maicobreako
    Member

    What if you took the sed. bowl off and ran a line direct from the tank ( hose barb fitting?) ? That would eliminate the bowl as your problem.
     
  8. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't have the fittings on hand to do that but I have tested it with a lawnmower fuel tank and it works there. I see no reason the tank should be the problem. The bowl must be the problem but I don't understand what could be wrong with it. The only other part in the system is the petcock but it is brand new and working fine.

    I have also blown out the lines themselves just to be extra sure there was no crud in them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  9. Maicobreako
    Joined: Jun 25, 2018
    Posts: 127

    Maicobreako
    Member

    [QUOTE="trevors
    I have also blown out the lines themselves just to be extra sure there was no crud in them.[/QUOTE]

    Please take this with a grain of salt as I'm just a 'shade tree mechanic' myself. I always like to eliminate a part that I ''THINK" is the problem, then I know where to start. Have you done a flow test? Run gas, not water into a plastic or glass jug from the tank, and then your mower tank. See how long each takes to flow 1 gal. When you run off the tank, How much gas did you put in? Shouldn't matter but it might. IIRC you used teflon tape earlier, did you get it all out?
    Just bouncing ideas...
     
  10. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The teflon dope was only applied to the threads on the sediment bowl (they are a bit chewed up), and I might have been overly cautious as it wasn't enough to stop the leak. I'll try flow testing them like you suggested. When testing from the onboard tank, I put about a gallon in to make sure the screen filter was submerged. There is a solid base on the filter that would exclude a small quantity of gas in the bottom of the tank so I made sure to fill past that level.
     
  11. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,559

    RodStRace
    Member

    Best to do this on a table out in the driveway, but with water you aren't creating a big fire hazard.

    Disconnect everything from the tank and fill tank. Run water thru and make sure it flows enough volume. If not, fix tank.
    Connect next part of the fuel system (line or valve). Repeat test.
    Connect next part and repeat.
    Do this until you have all parts except carb (don't want to fill carb with water) set up so they match the in car position and sequence.

    This engine doesn't require a huge volume, but by doing this you should be able to see which parts choke the volume/flow.
    Dry out the parts before installing back on the car. If you have compressed air, blow each part in both directions, taking care not to use too much pressure for filters and gasketed parts.
     
  12. Something being overlooked here.... they only made about a million Model A's without this problem, so you gotta be able to find it.
    Kinked line?
    Do what RodStRace says and report back.
    By the way, 'new' doesn't mean 'right'. Carefully inspect all orifices in the system.
     
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  13. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 2,227

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    New only means a new box, doesn’t guarantee it works. Had this happen multiple times at dealership level
     
  14. milosmith
    Joined: Aug 27, 2020
    Posts: 79

    milosmith
    Member

    I had a similar problem with an old MG of mine that turned out to be fuel starvation. I had like symptoms that I was scratching my head at. The car would run fine for a while then die off under load.

    My mechanic took a look and suggested there was a restriction in the fuel line.

    I ran a flexible wire through the gas line, and sure enough there was a blob of sediment and crap in the line. Removing the restriction solved the fuel starvation issue. What was happening was that the car would run fine on the fuel in the float chamber until that supply was gone. It would then shut off. Once the float chamber refilled after 5-10 minutes, all was good.

    You can run a coat hanger or other length of wire up the open line to confirm. A partial blockage would allow some fuel to still go through the line, but prevent full flow which is needed for longer running.
     
  15. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I knew I had to be overlooking something stupid. The fuel line going into the carburetor was inserted too far. So it runs now, but what's more important is what happened next.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER




    I ran it around the block a couple times with only the e-brake functioning. I guess "stops the wheels on jack stands" doesn't mean "stops the car when rolling."

    I gotta say, I think I was too terrified to smile, but I was grinning ear to ear inside. There's clearly a long road ahead of this car but I'm well on the way now. As for the driving experience, it's not as hard as I thought it was gonna be - I've never driven a manual before, and I only stalled it once up a pretty steep grade. I had it in second gear at one point and only grinded a little so I think I'll get the hang of driving this thing sooner rather than later.

    The news is not all good, however. After parking the car I noticed an orange puddle under the radiator (visible in the first picture above). It was puking foam out of the overflow tube. I removed the rad cap and...

    [​IMG]

    ... I think I might have a bad head gasket after all.

    Gonna let the car cool down for a bit then put it back in the garage. What's weird is it never did this in the garage no matter how long I ran it or how hot I let it get. But I guess hauling the carcass of the car around is a lot different from running in neutral or freewheeling on jackstands.
     
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  17. Jrs50
    Joined: Jun 4, 2019
    Posts: 196

    Jrs50
    Member

    Haha. Love it man! You know you are hot rodding when 20 mph is "f@#king scary!"
     
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  18. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [​IMG]

    Well it's not oily, just rusty. I flushed it til it ran clean then filled it, ran it and flushed it again. We'll see what it does on the next drive. I'm gonna get the brakes working before I drive it again though.
     
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  19. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,188

    RMONTY
    Member

    Go buy several bottles of vinegar and put in the radiator. That should help clean the block out a bit as well as the radiator.
     
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  20. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Should I run it and let it warm up or just soak cold?
     
  21. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,188

    RMONTY
    Member

    Either will be fine. Vinegar is a mild acid, and I don't think that it being heated up will make a hill of beans difference.
     
  22. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sweet, I'll grab a bunch of vinegar tomorrow. Circulated it some more this evening and I can still see some flakes.

    Adjusting the brakes looks like it will be a trick, going by Paul Shinn's video. Guess I'll get started on that tomorrow.
     
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  23. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    More thoughts... Rear tires are in great shape - they're older bias plies but look basically brand new. They are a bit small for the rear. I think I'm going to move them to the front and order a pair of big fat tires for the rear, as the fronts are shot. I'm planning a reverse eye on the front & rear springs but overall I want the car to stay pretty tall, so I want a pretty big tire to fill up that space...

    Those front tires have MONSTER flat spots, in addition to not really holding air - so the car rides like it's on square wheels. Above 20 mph it's literally painful.

    [​IMG]

    Thinking these for the rears... nice fat sidewalls.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
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  24. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,559

    RodStRace
    Member

    Well, your first post in this is less than a year ago. Bringing home an engine and starting from there.
    The plan has morphed and changed a bit, but today you drove what was once a tossed together collection of parts.
    Major kudos, kid! You have jumped into the deep end and are not drowning. It may not be Olympic style swimming yet, but you have done a whole lot more than many first-timers.

    Just as the drive stirred up the cooling system, expect to change the trans and rear axle fluids too. Not yet, get it running enough to get them both closer to operating temp, but do remember and budget for this.
    Look for tutorials on "Double Clutching" for non-synco transmissions. You will get the hang of it pretty quickly. Also lube the springs and linkages now that they have been bounced around and worked. I know, I sound like a broken record, but stuff that hasn't had to work for many years will appreciate a bit of lube. I'll bet that many of the grease fittings will take lube easier after that shakedown drive.

    You didn't have to walk home and drag it back, didn't have anything major fall off or apart, didn't catch fire, and didn't hurt yourself, anyone else or the project. That is a win all around.

    EDIT: you got the collection in January, so you got it this far in 6 months!
    Imagine what you can do in another 6 months!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  25. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,512

    rusty valley
    Member

    Oil in model a radiators is quite common. Folks over grease the waterpump, and as the pump wears you are greasing the water too. If you dont have it already, you need the new stainless shaft and modern seal kit known as "the leakless water pump" kit from most vendors, have fun !
     
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  26. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,559

    RodStRace
    Member

    I posted this so you know you are not alone and can maybe use this and his other one to get the brakes fixed up.

     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  27. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,752

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Hell yeah, congratulations on the first drive. I know I'm not alone when I say that we're all so stoked for you. This thread has been one of my favorites on the H.A.M.B., and I enjoy seeing every update. You've come a loooong way from the "flathead in an old tire" days. Your hard work is paying off big time.

    Now that it's running and rolling, it'll make everything else more fun. You know, it's just detail work now. That's so neat that you have a video of the first drive—you'll never forget that day.

    As far as the tires go, I debated on 7.00 vs 7.50s for the rear for quite some time. I ended up going with the bigger tire for both looks and an extra mph or two on the top end. Use that Alliance discount!
     
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  28. slowspoke
    Joined: Sep 27, 2019
    Posts: 40

    slowspoke
    Member

    That first drive commentary was absolute gold! Cheers buddy!
     
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  29. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 649

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow, shipping is a bitch on tires. My bill after my (substantial!) Alliance discount is $532. Think I’m gonna have to sell some stuff. Anyone interested in some solid ‘28-29 fenders? Or a used kidney?
     
    brEad likes this.
  30. Dilley
    Joined: Dec 8, 2018
    Posts: 15

    Dilley
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Watch for Coker to run free shipping on Firestones. They just did it May, so you may not want to wait around for them to run it again. Also, look for them to run specials when the Mecum auction is in town. I ordered mine when I was at the auction here in Indy, and got free shipping and 10 percent off. I don’t think the auction comes to Dallas until December, so again probably don’t want to wait that long. But, something to keep in mind.
     
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