Projects Jumping in the deep end

It could be a touch lean, causing the high idle and heat. If you rotate the choke rod clockwise until it just stops then counter clockwise an 1/8 to 1/4 is a good starting point. Does it have an intake leak? That would cause it to go lean also, a bad intake gasket maybe?

 

I think intake leak is a possibility. I can’t kill it by choking it out so it’s still breathing somehow. When I close the mixture needle it backfires like a machine gun so I didn’t want to experiment too much with it.

 

I would probably look into an intake/exhaust gasket and check the carb flange for warpage

 

I checked the carb against a known flat surface and it was flat, but the gaskets are old and might be the problem. I purchased a complete gasket set anticipating old gaskets to start failing so I will experiment this evening. Even if it’s a bad head gasket that’s no big deal as I have one, I just don’t want to gamble with possibly breaking stuff I don’t need to break right now.

I’m super excited that this thing finally lit off. My coworkers could tell I was in good spirits this morning and several of them guessed why lol

 

if you cant kill it by choking it, its getting a lot of air from some place. make a new base gasket from heavy cardboard , like a case of beer box

 

I tinkered with the lever on the column but have not had a chance to fine tune it by adjusting the distributor. I have only started it twice and I can’t get out of the cabin while it’s running because I have to nurse the choke. I am going to sort the apparent intake leak this evening and see where that gets me.

The smell of victory, tell me about it. Stunk up my whole house with success!

 

That white smoke is likely residue from all that water that was in the block. If you can get the motor hot enough, it should burn off after time. Blue smoke would be worn rings or valves, and grayish/black smoke would be running too rich or ignition issues.

As Joey suggests, try advancing the spark lever right after start up too. That should help the idle situation. You retard the lever for starting, then advance it a few clicks for running. You would only rotate it to full stop for more power on hills.

Some carb cleaner or starting fluid sprayed where the carb mounts to the intake, or around the area where the intake mounts to the block, will tell you if you have an intake leak. The rpm's will go way up where there is a leak, so you can isolate where to focus your gasket replacement.

 

I took apart an old engine once and the gaskets were made out of Kellogg’s Corn Flakes boxes. Seemed to be the right thickness and worked pretty good!

 

Yall reckon the open vacuum port tapped into the intake manifold might be the culprit???



I looked straight at this thing over and over and somehow never focused on it. I think there is a leak between the carb and manifold too though - it looks wet there.

My question is - could a vacuum leak like that cause the engine to heat up that fast? More air = more hot right? Once it cools down and the battery charges up I'm gonna plug this sucker with my thumb and see if that helps. Right now it's too hot to touch.

So far no signs of oil in the coolant and it is smoking considerably less.

 

thats the problem ! it needs an 1/8" pipe plug. i'm surprised it started.

 

I actually don't feel any suction when I cover it with my thumb while it's running - I think it's plugged with gunk so I'll just remove it and replace it with an actual plug. However, this time, standing on the passenger side of the car, I heard the whine coming from the carb that I've read means there's air getting in between the halves, so either it is warped or the gasket is no bueno (or, my luck being what it is, both). I am certain there is a leak between the carb and intake manifold too. Fortunately I have the gasket for the carb/intake and can probably easily make the one for the carb itself.

If the Tilly is roached, I will go ahead and pick up a downdraft intake (once the money works out). That is on the agenda eventually regardless but I would like to wait if possible. If the Tilly forces my hand, I have a good Stromberg 97 on my V8 that I understand should work fine if re-jetted for the application, which will pair nicely with the head I have in mind down the road.

The good news is that the smoke appears to have cleared up completely!

 

It sounded great!
No rod knock, responded to adjustments, smoke was to be expected, and it ran smooth (fairly equal compression). You also did NOT let the magic smoke out of the battery charger and didn't puke water all over the floor! Success! I'm sure many here have experienced these and many more during a first start. The "White smoke" from the carb after it died was probably air/fuel mixture seeping out of the carb and intake.
It will require fiddling with and does seem to be running lean (vacuum leaks that need fixing), but overall it is a runner!
Things to check once you go through and check the carb and intake.
1. Oil - you may want to change it out now that it's been run and had some heat. If it still looks good, this can be put off for a few more runs, but oil is cheap and is a major help in keeping it alive and happy.
2. Coolant - did it circulate and get the radiator warm too? Sitting nose in inside a garage will tend to run warm when everything is happy, it's to be expected to run hotter when things aren't right yet. But avoid overheating it! If you can borrow a handheld infrared temp meter, it will allow you to keep an eye on this. They are cheap, but you need to save for real parts right now. Try it out on another vehicle to see what is normal for different areas (intake, exhaust, block, heads, radiator, belt). Note that modern engines tend to run hotter coolant and exhaust temps when at operating temperature.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/HW600-Ha...mometer-50-600-C-58-1122-F-NOT-Huma/381191636
3. Trans/clutch - make sure there is lube in the trans, since it's spinning at engine speed even in neutral. It would be a good idea to raise and support the rear axle so the tires are off the ground. Once you have got it to idle without input, try depressing the clutch a few times. Note any change in sounds, RPM and how it feels. I'd suggest trying to run it thru the gears with the tires up too, at first. Check the lube in the axle before sending power back.

Have you found any Model A club or vintage car guys locally? Having a guy or gal with a known good carb that could be swapped out and/or another pair of hands and eyes will help this part, although your brother seemed to be on top of it with the extinguisher and keeping an eye on things.

 

I wasn’t planning to cycle the oil out until after the first drive or so but no harm in doing it now if that would be better. I figured I would let it circulate a little more to try and capture any remaining water in the block.

The radiator is heating up and circulating and I don’t see any oil or signs of exhaust leakage when looking down through the cap. I did have a slow leak from somewhere in the middle of the radiator when first filled that has now magically stopped. I am wondering if the overflow tube has a pinhole in it somewhere and was leaking onto the coils, because it isn’t doing it anymore.

I didn’t think to check the transmission or rear end lube levels yet actually, I was planning to do that closer to getting ready to actually drive it but I wasn’t thinking about it spinning in neutral. I do have the rear end off the ground though!

I have only found one guy locally with Model As and he is some kind of professional restorer that sees everything as a business transaction, and isn’t really interested in hanging out or giving advice. I got some parts from him but he was in a hurry to get me off his property after I didn’t want to buy his Model T. There isn’t much of an early model car scene here other than off topic street rods. Still hoping I’ll run into someone but haven’t had any luck yet.

 

What is the longest length of time that you have been able to get it to run?

 

Good on you for raising the axle! I've heard of guys bolting in fresh drivetrains that had sat for years and having the mainshaft weld itself due to the lube sitting so long. Yours probably doesn't have tight tolerances, but it's a good idea to avoid ruining parts that just needed a little help before being worked.

If the oil looks good, keep it in until later. Put the money toward other things.
Radiator leaks can be plugged by debris circulating. Old tricks include pepper (really!) or either the old style silver powder or the modern GM brown lumps (actually they recommend the junk for all their system servicing!).
https://batauto.com/threads/gus-on-the-gm-coolant-sealing-tabs-pellets.3022/
So long as the leak isn't going to cause overheating, live with it for now until you decide on if you are going to keep with the banger and repair it as needed, or swap in the V8 which will require radiator mods or replacement. If it stays stopped up, you are ahead!

As for the business man, he has probably been burned too many times to be a help. However, maybe one of his local customers would lend a hand.

Doing a quick search, there are many used 'As-Is' carbs online for under a hundred bucks, plenty of fresh ones for 4-500 (!) and carb rebuilders. I found this guy splitting the difference at around 225, I do not have any knowledge of his quality or business. Just thought I'd show some options.
https://jmacarbs.com/

 

As far as I can tell it will run for as long as it has gas, it has used all the fuel I give it every time I run it. I am only letting it run briefly because I don’t want it to overheat. The exhaust is getting so hot that the dirt/debris caked onto it is flaking off and smoldering. I guess that is because it’s running so lean from all the air leaks.

I had been using the rear wheels to turn the engine over by putting the transmission in 3rd gear, but I didn’t want it on the ground when running just in case!

 

Are you working on it today? Or are you at work?

 

I’m at work today but I’ll be working on it this evening. I don’t have a day off til next weekend so I’ll just be cold.

 

Friday is Decatur......you still up for that?

 

Yep, I have friday off. So far so good, I won’t have any money but it will be a good chance to window shop and make some connections.

 

I see that the fuel lines are different between 28-29 and 30-31. I am guessing the difference relates to the changes made to the fuel tank. Since I have a ‘28 motor and a ‘30 body, can I use the ‘30 line, or will I have to make it up myself?

 

To the best of my knowledge you should be able to use the 30-31 fuel line, I assume it attaches the same on a Zenith as a Tillotson

 

Thanks. I am ordering a few bits and bobs since the fuel supply will be the next thing I tackle after I nail down the air leak. I am not satisfied with the lawnmower fuel tank balanced precariously over the fan. I think Henry’s idea was better.

 

Just looking through various Model A threads lately, and the difference I think is because the fuel shutoff was moved from inside the cab to on the firewall. Of course I'm no expert, so if that is wrong, someone will be along to correct it, since posting something wrong is the easiest way to get the right answer on the 'net. The cowls are different too, so that may be the reason.

 

I believe the shutoff was moved only at the end of 31.

 

See! It worked!

 

It occurs to me I will probably end up with a lot of gasoline sitting in my lap if I don't have a fuel gauge. Huh, this is starting to get expensive.

Tax return hit earlier than expected so I think I'll wait and see what kind of small bits I can score at the swap meet. Maybe I'll save some money vs paying retail prices...

 

Lol - fixed. There was never anything wrong with it - well, not exactly.



OK, so here's another difference between 28-29 and 30-31. I should have caught this earlier, but in my defense, the light on this side of the car is poor and running the engine has so far been a frenetic, slightly terrifying experience that kind of dulls my awareness, so I wasn't exactly looking at this. I went ahead and replaced the gaskets, solving the air leak, and it was still doing it.

While giving the passenger side of the engine a parental glare, I noticed that the throttle blade was half open. I went around and double checked that the throttle lever on the column was all the way up. I instantly knew there was a problem with the throttle assembly. I disconnected the throttle linkage and started it again. It fired up and went straight to idling... What went wrong? Well, the throttle assembly is apparently different between the two generations of A. The '30 firewall interferes with the pedal's travel and keeps it at about 50% throttle rather than letting it reach the idle position. I had previously noticed the pedal tapping the firewall, but once again I have never driven, nor worked on a properly sorted Model A, so I thought that was just because the body was not located properly on the frame, and didn't realize that it had so much more travel in it. By the time I got around to actually starting the car, this fact had been safely filed away in the "forget until after it's relevant" section of my brain, which looks like this:



So this whole time the engine has been wanting to work properly but the throttle was jammed halfway down and refusing to let it idle. D'oh!

 

I found a site detailing all the changes made to the throttle control assembly. This isn't a difference between 28-29 and 30-31, it's a difference between 28 and 28! Based on some distinctive features, mine was manufactured between 9/12/28 and 9/28/28. Starting 11/24/28, a redesigned throttle assembly was rolled out, featuring a drastically reshaped pedal arm that clears the bottom of the firewall rather than going through it. So I guess I need a different throttle assembly. I guess I could notch the firewall too but the later throttle assembly is better anyway.

Who would have ever thought "maybe the problem is that your gas pedal was made in the wrong month"???