Also, if you were paying attention, you might have noticed some of the VWs in the background. My uncle joked that Herbie must be sitting around somewhere and the seller said "wellllll" and led us over to a trailer, where we were greeted by this sight. It's the real deal! I was NOT expecting to meet a movie star today, but what a cool detour! The car runs and drives even after its ordeal as a stunt car and he takes it to VW meets in the area frequently.
Awesome! If you need a hand getting that banger running let me know. I do have a bit of experience with those. I put a head gasket on a '29 a few years ago, replaced some wiring harnesses and got it running. I think I have a carburetor kit here somewhere as well.
Congrats Trevor! Being persistent pays off and it seems like you got a good one! Definitely get it up and running with the banger. Can’t wait to see more pics. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
The banger motor is about as simple as it gets. If you have a cylinder or two with some compression, spark and gas, it will run. Mechanic's wire will work to go from the distributor to the spark plugs. Once you get it running, watch how much oil runs out the rear main at higher rpm's. One of the indications of the condition of the main bearings.
Thanks. Since the car has no wiring and no electrical components other than the generator and distributor I might take this opportunity to convert it to 12 volts. I have a few 12 volt coils sitting around to choose from. The frame, engine and body were all brought together from separate sources two owners ago and the last guy didn't do anything to it other than taking inventory. I am hoping the initial builder picked this engine for a reason and didn't just throw the first drivetrain he came across into the car. Pictures of all the junk I got with the car soon... still waking up, and I still have to drag the rented Uhaul trailer 30 minutes down to Cresson to drop it off. I'd love to have you over Robin! I think this time I have everything I need to start the car here already. I'm a little worried because when they put the body on the car for mockup they let the firewall compress the pedals, so if the throttle is hooked up, the carb has been sitting with the butterfly open for God knows how long. I'll know today once I get a chance to fully inspect the car. The brakes definitely aren't hooked up so it might be fine.
Starter too, although many have jammed 12V into them. So happy for you! Slow and careful on the engine. Better to spend an extra week sorting things out than to hurt it today. It would be a cool milestone to get it starting, running, and maybe even driveway moving, but how much of this side road is going to be toward your finish destination? So are you going fendered? Need aprons and running boards? Are the mechanical brake parts all there? Does the E brake work at least? If there are any Model A guys nearby, have them look it over too. It's been said that to build an old car, first you have to restore it, then modify. This doesn't mean that you have to finish it completely to original, just that it must be straight, square, and fit together at least as well as when new. In that vein, here are some reference books that can help answer what is still missing, what it's shared with or different, what it's worth and where to find it. https://www.mafca.com/cart/index.php?show_price=yes" https://www.mafca.com/ref_data.html https://www.mafca.com/tqa_b_measurements.html I'm sure there are a lot of other sources of info, I just found this quickly. I've found that it's nice to have an idea what an easily acquired repop costs, so when I find an original (which is often better) I know if it's a deal or not. Start lubing every moving part and all the fasteners! It's better to have a gooey spot and a screw that comes out than a dry spot with a broken screw! Door handles = should have a square hole in the latch. Lube the latch and hinges first, then try a flat screwdriver that fits opposite corners.
To get it started, you need a distributor, coil, battery. Do not worry about 6 volt/12 volt until you get it running to know if the motor is worth anything. The generator does not need to be hooked up. It is there to hold the fan belt on. If you do not have a fan belt, do not worry about it. Start it up without. Evaluate what you have before you spend money. Again, do not stick a lot of money into it until you know if the main bearings are good. If there is much play in the crankshaft front to back, oil will be pumped out the rear main. I have been there/done that.
Trev I know you ordered the Tardel book, but I had forgotten that I had these until I went looking for the carburetor kit. The kit is for a Marvel carburetor I think. I have a couple of other Model A things laying around I think. The books may help in figuring out how to restore certain components on the car. You are welcome to them if you want them.
I was able to get the driver door open. The latch guts are in both doors so you can reach down through the window opening and push them. The passenger door is stuck fast so it's marinating in oil right now. The driver door opens easily, shuts tight and is fully square in the body. The passenger door looks like it may need some help. The car was hit on that side and hastily repaired. The rear fenders are not as bad as I thought they were, though they have some booger weld repairs. They were the same color as the body at one time and the passenger fender has a dent that's in line with the scar along that side of the body. They were left outside when the rest of the car was brought in to the barn, so they have suffered. The front fenders and splash guards do not seem to have come from this car. There are no linkages for the brakes at all. The levers they connect to are all there... just not hooked up. The throttle linkage was not hooked up, but the choke lever was fully out, so the butterfly on the carb has been open, but it doesn't look too bad in there. Can't be worse than my V8 was when we started with it, at least as far as exposure to the elements goes. It closed easily when I adjusted the choke lever. I will need to redo all the wood inside the body. I think kits are readily available but not cheap. There is enough wood in there to use as a pattern that I think I can do it myself on my scrollsaw. Here's a close up of the sticker. Does anyone recognize it? Gemmer steering box... I recall reading that these are kind of a bitch to rebuild, but luckily this one feels nice and tight. Even the slightest pressure on the steering wheel gets an immediate response from the wheels. @RMONTY if you are sure you don't need them I'd be glad to take them! They'll be a huge help I'm sure. I'm going to mothball the V8 and chassis components for now and focus on getting this car running and drivable.
Here's everything I got yesterday out in the daylight. I'm not sure what any of the metal bits in the last picture are for.
Such a great find. I’m know I’m not alone when I say I’m super excited for you. I like the ‘banger ideal for obvious reasons haha If I’m not mistaken, those metal pieces are the lower seat riser, the package tray and I think part of the floor. Looking at that decal, I’m wondering if it may have been some sort of drag car body. I’m guessing the rear window is glass. If it were roundy round racing, wouldn’t they make you remove all the windows? Maybe see if you can find traces of other lettering on the body? Regardless, this is the best thing I’ve seen on the H.A.M.B. in a long time. Let me know if you need any help with the ‘banger! Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I can already foresee that fasteners are going to be a significant expense. Almost all of them were lost from one owner to the next.
Of course, for a true early build, you want original or old fasteners. You can haunt the local yards and gather up what you can find. Work out a deal for gallon buckets by weight if possible. Cheap, but time consuming. There are also restoration places that have the stuff, but that is going to be very expensive. Going to the hardware store each time is very time consuming too. I picked up a carry box full of common hardware (bolts, nuts, washers, etc.) from a local supply shop years back. It's gone up in price and while it's limited, it would be a great start for mocking up the car. Check your local suppliers to see if the have a similar kit. Look at the 97 hole kit. It's also very helpful to have it all in a portable carrying case! https://www.copperstate.com/shop/5637158370/portable-fastener-kits You can figure out what you need as you go and source the stuff needed. Having a bunch of clean, sorted bolts is very helpful for moving forward and developing a buy list. Return the stuff back to the kit when you have the final hardware for the car.
As better reference I would suggest Les Andrew's Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook Volume 1. What you have now is a compilation of articles from The Restorer, the Model A Ford Club of America periodical. While interesting and informative, Les' book is in a format that is easier to follow and will be more step-by-step detailed and helpful to you. Good luck you are on a voyage that will be rewarding and fun but at times frustrating and aggravating. Don't get discouraged. And please don't chop it! Ned
I figured the first order of business was getting the body attached to the frame but I was having a lot of trouble getting the body lined up with the mounting holes on the frame. It looks like someone has jacked with the body mounts in the front; they aren’t set right for the A frame’s holes. When perfectly centered, none of them line up. Upon further inspection, I realized that a lot of the structure has been welded in. Only the four holes in the center of the body actually line up with the corresponding frame holes when it's sitting right. This thing was definitely a race car, and I'm guessing it was originally on a custom or later frame. I am going to have to cut the front mounts off and make up new ones, and also drill new holes in the rear. A slight hassle but a pretty cool clue to the car's history - this may have been an 11 second car at one time. (But with this workmanship, probably not.) Here I am making it lame and slow!
I've read that the serial number is located just below the cowl on the frame. Before you get too bolted down, check to make sure the title matches the numbers! Price out the hardware kits too. They may not be too bad. Get catalogs for parts, again so that you know what new stuff prices are to judge the used stuff you find. I don't know who are the good guys, but here are some I ran across. https://modelastore.com/bolt-kits?product_id=12640 http://www.allfordparts.com/shop/content/model-catalog https://www.brattons.com/catalog/current-catalog/current-catalog.html https://www.classicautopartsonlinecatalog.com/Model-A-Online-Catalog/Cover/# and of course, if you plan on buying stuff in 2021, check into a HAMB alliance membership and save money with the vendors who support this great site! https://www.jalopyjournal.com/?page_id=176
An Alliance membership is on the agenda next payday. Things are a little tight right now! I can't find a good way to bar this thing over - I didn't get a crank handle with it. Things are not looking all that good though. The spark plugs are all rusty. I can see a lot of crud sitting on top of the pistons, and there is a lot of dirt/mud? (looks like dirt dauber nest) in the oil filler tube. This one is gonna be more involved than the V8 was I'm sure. As far as the body goes, the only metal I’m missing seems to be the rear passenger window garnish molding and the middle hinge on the passenger door which was just bondo’d over when it broke off. I will need to do some rust repair on the quarters and try to fix the bondo on the passenger side of the cowl and door. After that & after I fix the body mount situation it will pretty much be ready for paint.
Keep in touch with the seller, he may be able to turn up that garnish. Get as much history as possible, too. Since the deal is done there should be no qualms about past owner info/contacts. Maybe someone has it floating around. The guy that assembled the different parts may have more stuff needed, too. Couldn't tell if it has window regulators. Windshield frame? The sticker looks to have crossed checkered flags and swoopy (not race or rod) style cars and "International". The 3 section lower banner could have _____ International Raceway, but that's just a guess and the car style doesn't scream "race", more "saloon". The covered tire spats would be more fitting of top speed (LSR) cars. A search found this, http://houstonfreewaydragstrip.com/houston-freeway-dragstrip-references.htm This site mentions a few other "International" tracks, https://dragstriplist.com/texas-f-o Odessa International Raceway (named such in 1975-76 under AHRA rules) Lubbock International Dragway (named in 1983) Edinburg International Racetrack (unclear when) Looking at the first of the three banners, the best fit (all caps) is the A at the end of Odessa, but it's not very legible, and looks like a rounded top, unlike the sharp top on the A in international. Having an idea of time frame and location would help. That decal could have been done over a few decades. The single "N" or "M" toward the top isn't much to go on.
After taking inventory, here’s my current shopping list. This is assuming the engine fires right up, the radiator holds water, the transmission shifts, and the brakes actually function... which is all very optimistic, but I’m not there yet. Fasteners fasteners fasteners Body blocks Rear passenger window garnish molding Windshield frame (related parts?) Door handles Door guts (window stuff??) Seat/frame Trunk guts Trunk lid skin Brake linkages Gas pedal (whole assembly?) Headlight guts Welting Passenger side door middle hinge Passenger side cowl skin? Glass Hood center rod thing Crank handle There are window regulators, but I don’t know yet how complete they are or if they work. No windshield frame sadly. The previous owner said he is pretty sure it came without that garnish but if it turns up somewhere he will ship it to me. I spoke to the seller, and he said that he knew nothing of the body’s history. However, according to the title, it came from La Grange... which is kinda fun.
So, I've been thinking about the car's history. As I was eating my lunch, I thought back to when NASCAR sanctioned quarter mile drag racing from the mid-'50s until the late-'60s. (More info can be found on this thread here). Well, looks like you may have remnants of an old drag car after all?
Whaaat??? That’s bitchin! I cant wait to get home and dig in!! Thanks dude! Here’s the version of the sticker that I have, from that thread: It almost feels sacrilegious to think about putting it back on an A frame now!
Excellent catch, J. Ukrop!!! Just to expand on the sticker, those wouldn't necessarily be just for participants, but possibly for pit crew and fans too. Go to a modern race and a lot of those stickers will be out in the parking area. Post up some pics of the internal bracing. The body mounts alone don't really mean much. Engine or chassis serial number, not body number. So that doesn't track where the body was located. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number Model A specific, long read. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABe...A Ford Engine Serial Numbers, 21 more rows You should confirm which is on your title. This also brings up an interesting and common issue, if you are using the engine number (which was often swapped out over the years) for the title and it matches, how can you swap in the V8 and still have paperwork that matches? This varies depending on which state, and you should confirm before swapping!
I'm needing most of that same stuff for my '31 2-dr. I've been looking in Bert's Model A Store catalogs (on-line and hard copy). They have just about everything on your list. I think when I get my list totally together I'll have them put the order together and I'll drive out there (Denver) to pick it all up at one time rather than relying on the trained (untrained???) monkeys at the shipping companies.
Do not rush on covering that list. Need a reason to go to swap meets. Make note that window frames for the early and late Model A's are not the same. (Early are 28 and 29's, Late are 30 and 31's.)
I found that sticker design too... Found it here... http://midstateantiquestockcarclub.com/utica_rome_competitors_collections.html Glen.
Such an awesome turn of events for you! I have been following along and am thrilled to see that you scored this coupe. Persistence always wins. Strong work bud.
Looks like a pretty solid and very cool project. People will tell you that you need to box or swap your frame for the v8 conversion, not necessary unless you're going for major horsepower... unlikely with an 8BA on a tight budget. My '31 is pretty rowdy and still sports the original frame, no issues. If you start with the banger, then want to convert to the v8 you'll end up doing a bunch of stuff twice and paying for it too. Start with the flathead IMO.
It looks like the body-bolt pads have been scabbed in at some point in time, probably to reinforce the lower body for a racing application, which just needed to hold it together. I would check assembly manuals, restoration books, and body sheetmetal vendor sites to determine what they should be, and rebuild/replace as needed. Start by getting the body back to square one, and it will make your life much easier and your build much nicer.
The Jalopy Journal
