Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects Jumping in the deep end - my AV8 project

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by trevorsworth, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 406

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi guys.

    Little preface: I have no idea what I'm doing. Other than the really rough classics we had in my high school auto shop, I have no background with this stuff, no mentor, no cool hot rod uncle to give me pointers, and no deep pockets to absorb the impact of my mistakes. I'm a broke ass college kid and I decided I want a real, no bullshit hot rod soooo...

    [​IMG]

    I bought this flathead V8 for $250.

    I'm told was pulled from a 1949 F-6 a couple weeks ago and was last running in 2010. The carburetor was damaged by a stray bullet. I don't have any more details on that.

    The motor turns over easily by hand and you can hear it gasp, the clutch works and the transmission shifts. It has freshish oil and coolant and there's some new rubber on it so I guess I'll take the previous owner at his word that it was running.

    I have a lot of learning to do, but I learn best by diving in and leaving myself with no choice but to learn how to swim... so now that I have this engine sitting on a tire in my garage that's what I'm going to do.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Feat. engine hoist I panic bought & overhauled yesterday after agreeing to pick up the engine today and realizing I would have no way to unload it.

    I'll worry about a frame and body later... those are always available; good deals on complete engines don't seem to come up as often. For now I want to get this motor built and running. Tomorrow I plan to clean it and then pull the heads off and see what the cylinders and valves look like. If I have time that evening I'm also going to drain the oil and drop the pan. Any advice before I get into it? Is there a checklist for dummies I should go down?

    Planning to take lots of pictures so I'll use this thread as a rolling journal, hopefully eventually leading into putting the actual car together.
     
  2. eicke
    Joined: Jul 30, 2012
    Posts: 63

    eicke
    Member

    Good luck........around here, motors are easier to find.........bodies are another thing. Might start looking for a different tranny. Granny 4sp's and hotrodding really don't mix.

    -Ron
     
    Outback, Boden, low down A and 3 others like this.
  3. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,117

    RMONTY
    Member

    Have you looked at building up a stand to put the engine on?
    I think there are a few examples of mounting the engine sideways.
    Don't know if you have access to welders and such, but I like building shit like that so if you need a hand, let me know.
    Subscribed to watch progress.
     
  4. jailhousebob
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 705

    jailhousebob
    Member
    from Illinois

    So, if money is an issue i would try to get it running before i pull the heads just to see what you have.If it turns over and has compression it may surprise you.I've had good luck with used flatheads.Do a quick compression check, It may be a little tired but may have a little service life left in it.Get some kerosene /marvel mystery oil in there and let it soak a bit,pull the intake and pan and clean out the sludge and see if all looks well etc.Check it over real good for an old rebuilders tag.It may have been freshened up at some point in it's life. The money you may save at this point could be used to purchase other parts for your project and you can rebuild the motor down the road. The last 3 flathead cars i built all ran used flatheads including my current 32 5/w. None of then had knocks or burnt oil, so sometimes you get lucky. That transmission will not serve you well in a hot rod.Bob
     

  5. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,255

    1934coupe
    Member

    Trevor, welcome. I agree with JHBob, don't go nuts taking things all apart . Just check for any mice, acorns etc. you say it turns over that's a good start have a plan and if you are in college you know about doing your homework. Study up on flatheads and fill out your profile so maybe you can have a "mentor" or Hamb friend stop over and help out. Right now for all we know you could be in???

    Pat
     
    Nicholas Coe and trevorsworth like this.
  6. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,244

    alchemy
    Member

    If I had nothing and no experience, like you, I'd try to start that engine before I tore it all apart. As said above, remove the intake and pan and clean the sludge. Pour some Marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug holes to lube up any sticky rings. Replace the intake and pan with new gaskets after cleaning the oil pickup and screen. Then try to find a good carb. Don't worry about the generator or water pumps right now. Plug the ports for the oil filter. You just need the bare minimums to see if it will run.

    I see an electric fuel pump on it. When you hook that up to start it, make sure you also leave the stock mechanical fuel pump's actuator shaft in place. Otherwise you will have no oil pressure cause the missing shaft will allow a big leak.

    Build a low wooden cradle that the engine can sit on. Make it out of 2x8's and sturdy to hold the engine on the sides of the pan rails. Or you can low-buck it and try to get it running just sitting there on a tire, but that is really risky.

    If you show your location you might find somebody nearby who can help with parts and advice.
     
  7. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,255

    1934coupe
    Member

    See Trevor I just learned something, Alchemy said "I see an electric fuel pump on it. When you hook that up to start it, make sure you also leave the stock mechanical fuel pump's actuator shaft in place. Otherwise you will have no oil pressure cause the missing shaft will allow a big leak". I didn't know that.

    Pat
     
  8. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 406

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’m in Weatherford just west of DFW. I’d love to get some help from a more experienced local.

    Lots of good info already. I am not planning on using that transmission, but since it works I am optimistic about the rest of the motor.

    I’m going to either buy or build a stand before trying to run it, I would lose my mind if it jumped off the tire.

    Reason I wanted to pull the heads was to check out cylinder bores and make sure there are no stuck valves. Not necessary?

    I found the remnants of a rebuild tag on it last night but didn’t take a picture. I don’t remember if it said who or when.

    More when I get home from school. Thanks again guys.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    the oil soup, Nicholas Coe and RMONTY like this.
  9. Your getting some pretty solid advice. There is no need to make a Fresh motor if the one you have will run as is. Some elbow grease and paint will get you by. If your $$$ is tight don't make your first move so big you can't get past it. Keep moving Forward. As mentioned dump the Truck 4 speed and find a 39-52 gear box. Decide if you want open drive or closed drive, that will narrow down the Year span to get for a Trans.
     
    RMONTY and trevorsworth like this.
  10. No need to pull the heads. Get some top lube in the holes and let things sit a while, then with plugs out rotate the motor several times then do a compression test. That will tell you all you need to know.
     
  11. Here's a little motovation for ya. About a 10 year old photo of my Roadster. They don't have to look like a Million dollar deal to have a Million dollars worth of Fun with them. Everything you see sitting on the Tires are take off parts from Customers builds from many years doing this for a living. All I have invested is time.
    P1010241.JPG
     
  12. jailhousebob
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 705

    jailhousebob
    Member
    from Illinois

    No need to pull the heads to see if the valves are working.Easier to pull the intake which you should do anyway,as mentioned.On a flathead you can see the entire valve train when you pull the intake.
    An old rebuilders tag is a good thing.It doesen't mean the engine is good now but at least it shows the block was good at the time of rebuild.Back when these were being commercially rebuilt they would just scrap bad blocks so hopefully if the engine got halfway decent care from that point on the block remained good.Also,i have had some that weren't run much after the rebuild and were still up to spec. All of the used flatheads i have run for years w/o rebuilding had old rebuilders tags.I built a 31 roadster for a friend with a junkyard 59ab (with an old rebuilders tag)that is still runs great after 10 years.pic below
     

    Attached Files:

  13. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 351

    sdroadster
    Member

    This is all good advice. I drove a 47 Ford to high school that burnt oil, and had a slight rod knock. We were kids, and drove that old Ford everywhere. Don't overthink this project, and don't look at magazines offering to sell cookie cutter parts. Everything for a hot rod Ford is available with used and junkyard parts. That's why young men built them.
     
  14. UGOTBIT
    Joined: Nov 18, 2019
    Posts: 28

    UGOTBIT
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    What are your plans for the rest of the build?
     
  15. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 406

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’m shooting for an unchanneled but mildly chopped ‘30ish Model A coupe on an original frame with as many antique (not necessarily Model A) parts underneath as possible. I’m a big fan of the “traditional rod” look. Not a rat rod but I’m not afraid to let it show some age... it will be painted eventually but that is the last thing on the list. Really I’m trying to approach this with the same mindset as my grandfather when he did the same thing in the 60s: use what you can get and if it works it works... if it’s a little rough around the edges that’s OK.

    The only modern amenity it will have will probably be disc brakes... because stopping is more important than going.

    Figured I’d start with the engine and see what I can scrape together body wise while I work on it. I see Model A rollers for pretty cheap sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    slv63, fiftiescat, belair and 3 others like this.
  16. clunker
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,613

    clunker
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Boston MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB


    Awesome. You can do it. Don’t get discouraged. One step at a time.



    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Nicholas Coe and trevorsworth like this.
  17. I agree with not pulling the Heads as of yet. However just to know what the Valves are doing there is no need to remove the intake. Cranking speed of the starter and a compression gauge will let you know "IF" you need to remove the intake at all. The more you can leave intact the less you'll need to spend just to find out if it will run or not as well as how good it runs. Write K.I.S.S. on your shop wall and practice it and you'll end up with a very friendly H.A.M.B. Hot Rod. That's exactly how it was done when I was growing up (I never have really grown up). By the way, I'm old enough to be your Grandpa.
     
  18. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 406

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’ll leave the heads alone for now then. Thanks.

    Next payday I’ll order another carb. Should I spring for a Stromberg? I would eventually like to go to a dual/triple setup (along with other speed parts) but that’s pretty low priority at the moment. For now I’ll work on changing the oil and testing compression.
     
    Nicholas Coe and winduptoy like this.
  19. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,117

    RMONTY
    Member

    I built a 235 Inline 6 Chevy for my Sedan Delivery project, and I ordered a dual carburetor set up for it, but I broke the engine in with a known good single barrel Holley just for the sake of simplicity. Maybe you can come across something basic and not break the bank to see if the engine will run. Maybe someone here has something they would be willing to part with for the right cause! Ya never know....a bunch of great guys around this place.
     
    midnightrider78 and trevorsworth like this.
  20. UGOTBIT
    Joined: Nov 18, 2019
    Posts: 28

    UGOTBIT
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Sounds cool. The biggest thing is you have started, even though it's just an engine it's a start, and it sounds like you have a plan.
     
    trevorsworth likes this.
  21. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,229

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Glad you are jumping in. Doing is a great way to learn and have the satisfaction of knowing who completed the project. Good on you!
    Remember that gas and electricity can make fire.
    I ALWAYS have a Co2 fire extinguisher on hand when I start an engine
    Puts fires out
    Stops runaway engine with a little burst down the carb.
    I can usually pick them up at the Fire extinguisher service shop, one that is used and beat up so no business wantss to hang it.
    PM sent on carb
     
    trevorsworth likes this.
  22. I am glad you are choosing a flathead for your project! I am a huge flathead freak and would love to help you any way I can, feel free to send me messages I am new to the H.A.M.B. form though, look up Wired Customs LLC on YouTube for a bunch of flathead educational videos, as far as what you need to do to see what you are working with is to drain the oil and drop the pan, check for sludge, also pull the intake and heads, check for sludge in the oil valley, and make sure there isn’t any cracks around the valves in the block


    Want Flathead Knowledge? Check our Wired Customs LLC on YouTube!
     
    trevorsworth and clunker like this.
  23. What you have is an unknown start point. What us Old Guys called a Pig in a Poke. Being it looks like this is going to be a multi Year project I would not buy a New Carb. Find someone close that will loan you a used one just for start up. Taking a new one out of a box and using it for 1/2 an hour then letting it set 2 or 3 years and when you try to run it again it will give you a headach. I agree with cleaning the Pan out, but why now? It ran the way it is when parked. It will run again as is long enough to see if you have a Good Core. If it should happen to be Junk don't stop. Keep building the project with it while searching for a better one. I assure you there is sludge in the pan. In my book it don't matter right now. I'd do the bare minimum to find out "If" it still has a pulse and next how strong is it. Then move on with next phase. Most big projects I've been involved in I use a core or plug motor to build the Car around. Once all the Fab is done and moving into final stages the Real Deal takes it's place on the Mounts. Keeps a good motor from being exposed to welding and grinding frag, that stuff will destroy a good motor.
     
  24. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,229

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm in the 'start it and see if it will run' camp since it rotates 360 degrees....yes, yes pull the intake and I have better luck with Seafoam loosening valves than Marvel Misery.
    Do run it before you pull the heads, it will thermal cycle the engine and maybe, just maybe, let loose of more head bolts so you don't have to drill them.
    Free advice and might be what it is worth...
     
    trevorsworth and flatford39 like this.
  25. Doug Hines
    Joined: Jan 9, 2019
    Posts: 247

    Doug Hines

    I just got through firing up an old flathead that had been setting for God knows how long. Way more than 10 years. It was lightly stuck in fact. It runs just fine. My budget was about nothing. It has good compression. Just starting it, or trying to start it is the best way to see what you have got. Things get expensive once you start taking an engine apart.
     
  26. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 720

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    I recently picked up a 8ba myself ... I have no use for it ... I really did not want to see it go to the scrap yard, so I bought it for scrap prices ... thinking it will be junk and some good parts. Save it for a future project.
    I am currently trying to figure out how to store it ... pieces on a shelf or a motor on a stand.

    It is stuck ... pulling the heads I was very pleased. Pulling the intake not so much.

    0731201047c.jpg

    0729200938.jpg
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  27. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,345

    adam401
    Member

    I think your off to a good start. Ive always built cars on a non existent budget myself. A big part of it is parts identification.
    When the world is normal, and there are swapmeets, being able to identify parts will help you be able to not buy a million things you don't need. It'll also help you get good deals.
    Keep your first car simple! Dont get caught up in having to have every crazy exotic thing. An Av8 built with early Ford parts is very simple if you let it be. Banjo rear, 3 speed and a flathead. Dont be afraid of some properly assembled and adjusted 40 Ford drum brakes. They're simple, look good and work well a model A hot rod.
    Good luck. This stuff is fun. Driving is real fun. Just get it together so its safe and drive something.
     
    cactus1, slv63, wheeldog57 and 2 others like this.
  28. Nicholas Coe
    Joined: Jul 5, 2017
    Posts: 1,718

    Nicholas Coe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Tontitown

    I completely agree! Don't jump in crazy like some of us have done. Clean it up and see if she'll run. You might be really surprised. Those flatheads are known for resurrecting themselves from the dead.

    Definitely build a cradle too. I asked a buddy to weld up a stand for mine. He said it only took a couple hours.

    Good luck. Please give us a good bio too. Tell us more about who you are and why you are here.

    Nick

    Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    trevorsworth and RMONTY like this.
  29. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,255

    1934coupe
    Member

    Trevor here are a few pictures of a low budget build. My good friend Don Butler just passed away last Friday after a long illness but I did the chassis on this Model A sedan, I think it's a 29. He bought the drivetrain from a 37 Ford wheels and all, was supposedly a running flattie. He only cleaned it up we put a open drive conversion, F1 steering box. The chassis and body were decent. He did the body work and sprayed it. A pair of buckets from a junk yard. He didn't have much money so he bought used and swap meet. We read the A Rod book by I think the name is Tardall. He was driving it and enjoying it since built in 08. So go slow and enjoy.
     

    Attached Files:

  30. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,387

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Does the pan have a removable, circular, cleanout in the bottom ? Some of the truck engines had that option, saves pulling the pan, to remove the muck.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.