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Technical ***July 2020 Banger Meet Thread - Four Is A Good Number***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. lostdutchman
    Joined: Aug 19, 2010
    Posts: 20

    lostdutchman
    Member


    I'm running a open drive shaft
    Useing a 46? Front wish bone the one that has the wered dog leg at the big end to locate the rear. Need to build a torque rod mounted on the top of the bango but so far no prob
     
  2. lostdutchman
    Joined: Aug 19, 2010
    Posts: 20

    lostdutchman
    Member

    DSC02471 (3).JPG
     
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  3. lostdutchman
    Joined: Aug 19, 2010
    Posts: 20

    lostdutchman
    Member

    Good to know thanks
     
  4. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,166

    johnneilson
    Member

    Chad,
    good question. Stock "A" gravity/splash system was designed for sub 3k revs. Remember, this was some time ago. Back in 1912 ish time frame racing motors had pressurized oiling systems and still only about 3k revs.
    Gravity fed mains can be converted to pressure feed and increase the life immensely. The splash rods can survive pretty well if the oil is filtered properly.
    The problem I see is that drilling an "A" crank for feeding the rods removes quite a bit of material from the journal.
    This, IMHO will be the weak link if you try to rev the motor too high.

    Show us some pictures, especially the head chambers, John
     
  5. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 427

    guitarguy
    Member

    Ok, that helps a bit for sure. We will be pressurizing the mains, and are planning an external pump (modified big block Mopar with adjustable pressure relief valve). I am not planning on drilling the crank, as I agree, it creates a stress point. I have some ideas that a few of us have bounced around for helping the rod oiling, but still maintain splash.

    Here is the Fronty, fresh back from the machine shop last week. It was a tricky deal to make it work again, you cant just go and put valve seats in it. The guides had about half almost worn through the sidewall on the top. Pretty stoked he could save it for me, otherwise it would have been a VERY expensive paperweight. Chambers need to be remeasured after all the work, but are approx 243cc as last measured.

    Fronty T head 14.1.jpg

    Fronty T head 16.1.jpg
     
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  6. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 468

    dmdeaton
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just stopped by Brookville roadster and picked up a 1 piece hood top and a 32 grill shell. I snagged one without any holes drilled in it. I will post some pics when I get started installing it
     
  7. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 502

    railcarmover

    Black flagged by the long arm of the Straw..or should I say law :).Hell yeah,put me down for the hill climb crew,you got my email..
    Wont be the first time my big mouth got me into something..
     
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  8. 25mercury
    Joined: Aug 14, 2010
    Posts: 69

    25mercury
    Member
    from California

    Do you have a T, S, or R head ? fullsizeoutput_1292.jpeg
     
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  9. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,166

    johnneilson
    Member

    Compare the Model "A" 1928 40 HP and the Miller 91 of '26-29
    early 150HP @7k rpm, later 200HP @8k rpm.
    The light than burns twice as bright burns half as long.
    Incredible, late '20's, crude gas and benzine, oil somewhat refined and a design concept from 1912.
    Not half bad, John
     
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  10. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 427

    guitarguy
    Member

    I,m sorry I forgot to mention, it is a "T" head. That is why I am having custom pistons made to bump the compression up. I have been talking with a hill climber out of Colorado that also runs a "T" head, he was kind enough to give me the the info on his pistons so I could get some made, albeit at a lower compression ratio for me (he just upped his to 9 to 1).
     
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  11. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,685

    Binger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wyoming

    Looks great. I feel the extra work that goes into a T-5 conversion is all worth it.
     
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  12. Gary in MN
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 124

    Gary in MN
    Member

    Something like this........pistons are 1/2" above the deck.....6.5 to 1 comp ratio. Gary DSC01031.JPG
     
  13. That's some pop-up!
     
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  14. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,127

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    thats the way they are , but be glad the head is recessed ............ looks really cool
     
  15. modelAsteve
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 354

    modelAsteve
    Member

    Thanks for volunteering! I might make you CHIEF SPORT COUPE INSPECTOR! Keep you fingers crossed that the Governor and City of Auburn let this fantastic event happen. See you on September 19 at the Nor-Cal FAST Hill Climb
     
  16. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 65

    poshdbs
    Member

    1/2 inch of pop up. Too much for the head I'm using on my B. Think these are for an original Miller OHV. 20200721_201502.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-A320FL using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  17. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 502

    railcarmover

    That would be a lonely job...
     
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  18. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 427

    guitarguy
    Member

    Below is the custom Ross pistons that have been made for a Frontenac and other similar chamber heads. I am not sure if his pic is of the 7.5 to 1 or his newer 9.5 to 1 version. He runs the same head that I do, and our chambers CC to be similar size.

    But I was proposed an offer on his 7.5 to 1 pistons today. I am not sure if I want to go that high. But it would save me a few hundred dollars...and definitely add some pop.

    Any thoughts on that using his old barely used pistons? My cam is a Stipe copy of the Laurel Roof cam, 196 / 205 @.050 / 117 LSA / .310 cam lift (about .420 at the valve).

    Fronty Ross Piston 1.1.jpeg
     
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  19. If you decide to sell, pm me the specifics.
    Thanks!
    Bill
     
  20. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,174

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    Got the valvetrain done in the p/up last night. What a pain in the back! If I had known what a pain working over the fenders was I would have just pulled the engine...
    -On a less-whiney note, probably picked up a half-point of compression from the thickness of the replacement valve heads...
    How thick does a valve head really need to be above the seat on these engines? The stock ford valves I've pulled out are nice, light, streamlined things. But the stems are usually really worn, hence the need for the valve job...
     
  21. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,117

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nice looking head. I picked up a RAJO BR head that just took a trip thru and am debating on what to install it on because of brakes on a T.
    As for your oil question.
    I run a couple of A/B engines that are pressure/dipper set ups. I have modified the stock oil pump for pressure and volume. Pressure to the mains I limit to 35 psig, partially as not to overwhelm a rear main seal. I've experimented with different locations to place the relief from the pump because you want the volume to keep the dipper trays full. That thrashing rod/crank assembly will empty the tray pretty fast I suspect. I don't know where the place to relieve the oil would be on a T but I believe it should be included in the thought process.
    My inserted, pressure/dipper A engine has upwards of 25k miles on it and no problems with rod bearings and I give it no slack. I did experience problems on an engine when I broke/cracked a front pulley that scooped out the front seal and it wound up in the pump screen and then oil starved the dipper tray. That reinforced the need to keep the tray full. Dipper is not the way to go if you are going to have sustained high RPMS like 'Ol Dawg, but if you get on it for short bursts, no problems. Besides it doesn't make sense to drill an A crank which you realize. What did it have to be turned to for the T engine?
     
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  22. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 427

    guitarguy
    Member

    Yes, no sustained high speed runs, just street use with short bursts.

    I have a Mopar big block (383 /440) oil pump (already external mounted on stock engines) I intended to use, driven off the front of the generator gear. I trimmed the oil filter head off it and plan to tap the ports for fittings. It has a relieve valve built in, and I plan to install an adjustable relief valve setup that Milidon makes.

    Run a line from the pump to a bulkhead fitting in the side of the block, then start branching off to feed the mains and rods dips. Right now I am think something along the lines of a Chevy setup with discharge tubes to fill deeper dip trays.

    By the way, my thoughts on restricting led me back to when I had an off topic car with a turbo retro-fitted. The trick then for the oil feed was to tap the fitting to accept a Holley carb jet, thus restricting and adjustable. I figured I may need to apply that to the rear main to control the oil to not overwhelm it as you have mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
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  23. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 502

    railcarmover

    The meat on the valve head makes it more stable and handles heat better..ford valves like a pizza cutter
     
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  24. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 65

    poshdbs
    Member

    I'm not sure yet. I'll have a think about it!
     
  25. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 188

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    Downdraft intake arrived earlier this week and I just had to take a break from lapping the valves and do a testfit.
    I like the simple look without fins and manufacturers name.

    thumbnail_IMG_1262.jpg
     
  26. 25mercury
    Joined: Aug 14, 2010
    Posts: 69

    25mercury
    Member
    from California

    My Mercury Speedster has a Fronty S head with 6.5 to 1 pop ups, Stipe Laurel/Roof cam, triple front plate (water pump, oil pump, and distributor), and a Winfield H side draft carb. Other than a 12 volt system and DSM ignition almost all parts are 1925 or earlier. fullsizeoutput_1296.jpeg
     
  27. 25mercury
    Joined: Aug 14, 2010
    Posts: 69

    25mercury
    Member
    from California

    My other Mercury project has been delayed till fall. 43360919_10155837094096680_1972876245116911616_o.jpg 13055228_10153497435211680_2694543026287281465_o.jpg
     
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  28. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 427

    guitarguy
    Member

    First off @25mercury , that is awesome!

    I have some questions:
    I see you are running head studs...where did you source them from?
    I see a valve cover gasket, are these available or did you make your own?
    How do you like the Roof cam? Plenty of go?
    Oil Pump---oiling just the mains or pressurized rods also? Do you have a deep oil pan?

    Les Shubert 5 Main Block? AND a Fronty SOHC!?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  29. 25mercury
    Joined: Aug 14, 2010
    Posts: 69

    25mercury
    Member
    from California

    The head studs are Model A, the 2 long studs at the front of the Model A head are perfect length for Fronty single port heads. I cut my own valve cover gasket from a roll of cork. You have to grind the block a bit to fit in the Roof cam. The cam likes a light car and low rear end gearing, I might play with some offset cam dowels in the future. The engine has pressure oil to the mains and splash to the rods with a deep aluminum oil sump. My black Mercury gets the SOHC Fronty and the 5 main block made by Les Schubert. It will get a flathead V8 transmission.
     
  30. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,324

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    25mercury : Mike that engine for the Black Mercury is PURE BANGER PORN!!!
     
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