History Japanese Cars...NOT OT!!

What were those guys up to in the days when they were still copying Austin and Chevy??
I ran into this page quite by accident...intersting pile of stuff, with hints of the origins.
Toyota got started cloning Chevys (apparently after failing at casting blocks for FordFH clones!) and Datsun had Austin roots...but lots more was going on as a new industry was starting up. Here's some info from a WWII US military manual on the stuff we were encountering in the field:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/japanese-wwii-motor-vehicles-trucks.html

 

Interesting link. Thanks. It's no secret that other countries shared or even stole technology, but it's interesting how they adapted foriegn tech to fit their needs.

 

BMW started with Austin's IIRC. They've come along way too!

 

Now it's backwards. Chevy seems to want to be Toyota.

 

cool. i like auto history. I wish they mad one called the Samuri.

 

suzuki made a truck called the samuri

 

But they don't know where to start.

 

Suzuki had a small Jeep like vehicle called the Samurai (correct spelling)

 

don't forget about Toyota recruiting one of the designers of the Chrysler Airflow... and making one of their own that was stunningly similar in 1936 (the Toyota AA)...

 

Engine guy next door had a toyota 6 cyl out of a landcruiser.. it was such a close rip-off of a chevy 235 it was hard to believe

 

The Russians made limos that looked just like mid-50's Packards, apparently well into the 1970's. I recall reading somewhere that the tooling for pre-war Packards was sent to Russia as well.

 

very interesting.. i wouldn't mind building something out of one of those vintage nissan's or yoda's.. i'd definitely like to tool around my yard in one of those scary tractors

 

I don't know if I'd call it a "truck".

 

Maybe not. But my friend had one, and that thing was the toughest little whatever you call it I've seen. Took it on his dirt bike trails and over 6' jumps. For being recalled for rollovers, it sure was tough to get the thing on it's side.

 

I think there was even a RAP song about the suzuki samuri, if i remember right it was all dunked out back in the late 80's or early 90's in the video.

 

There is a book called Car Wars that has some interesting history on the Japanese industry. Probably out of print, I have a copy somewhere.

Datsun came from the parent company DAT, ergo DAT's son. Original spelling was in fact DATSON but when they started importing was changed to the DATSUN we all remember.

Just one of the "fun facts" in the book.

 

cool stuff. you ever see a tu-4? it was a russian copy of a b-29. they thought they were bieng slick , but by the time they got it down we already had the b-52 in te works-link---------------http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/ru_monino_aircraft_tu4_02.jpg

 

I had a Nissan Patrol, 1966 model. Looked like a cross between a Landcrusier and a land Rover. The straight six was a mirror image of a Chevy 6. Pistons from the Chevy actually worked when we rebuilt it!
Other Japanese oddities include the original Chevy LUV motor which was a copy of a FIAT, of all things. The Datsun L series motors were kind of a Jaguar/Mercedes hermaphrodite. Earlier Datsun were pretty much British Leyland knockoffs. And of course the Toyota Land Cruiser straight six was pretty much a Chevy

 

Remember the late-'70s or early-'80s Toyota that was inspired by the first-generation Mustang fastback?

Without a Ferrari to study, there would have been no Acura NSX. The Mazda Miata would not have turned out as it did but for the Lotus Elan.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

I always thought after WWII we sold/gave them blueprints to help them rebuild? That or maybe the reverse engineered junk that was left after the war?

I have owned a Nissan Patrol and several Toyota Land Cruisers and have used Chev 235 valve guides and seals in a pinch. They were an exact fit.

 

Postwar, I don't think there's much resemblance to US hardware to be found...the Chevy 6, copied prewar, stayed in use, but only for trucks...cars went small.
The end of the war was probably a major liberating moment for Japanese industry...they had too small an industrial base for what they attempted 1937-45, and the first class efforts all went into aircraft and ships...which were very, very good but not backed up by enough of anything else in infrastruture. After WWII, they were demilitarised and everything they had could go into stuff of real economic value.

 

For those of us who have had QI pounded into our coconuts, you will recognize the name W. Edwards Deming. He is the late, great QI guru.
After the allied fighters bombed the crap out of Japan, we sent Deming over to Japan to help them rebuild their industries with the QI theory as the backbone.
So when thinking about the American influence, you can see why a few of the cars resembled American cars.
Now the tables have turned and the Japanese are the QI gurus are we are learning from them. Although I still think Japanese cars are WAY over-rated.
I buy, and will continue to buy, what Detroit builds.

 

GM sold a license to Toyota to build the "knock off" 235 used in landcruisers. That 1 reason why so many people changed out landcrusers to SBC's as they bolted up to the stock tranny.

 

Copying certainly flows both ways. GM, particularly Chevrolet and Pontiac, borrowed all sorts of styling details and model names from Ferrari during the '50s and '60s. Among the names were GTO, 2+2, Monza -- I'm probably forgetting some.

And the next-to-last Thunderbird (last 4-seater) is almost an exact copy of the BMW coupe of the same period.

 

So will the intakes interchange with a 235, and what options would that give you for a carburetor?

 

The block looked identical to a 235 with the exception of two integrally cast mounting ears, but any Landcruiser six I've seen had a different style cylinder head with all 12 valves in a row, instead of the straight intake/canted exhaust setup of the Chevrolet engines. Remember the early '70s Toyotas with automatic transmissions that had a "Toyoglide" emblem on the decklid? Guess what U.S. design that was a copy of......

 

yeah, they didn't ride good enough to be a truck.
transfer case is about the size of my fist.
no matter, that 1.1 L 4 cylinder didn't make enough power to break anything...

 

The earliest Celicas were basically 2/3-scale '70 Mustangs throughout. Toyota sold the hell out of them in the '70s and early '80s. I had a US-spec '79 Celica GT coupe in Germany, and it handled the 'bahns just fine. One of the best newer cars I've ever owned. The dashes, seats, lines - all were sooo close to the Mustang - and a hell of a lot more dependable!

 

must be a southern thang...


Toyota Sports 800 was another knock-off http://images.google.com/images?q=t...oft%3Aen-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBR&sa=2 Honda S600... http://images.google.com/images?q=+...microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBR&sa=2

 

The Japanese are not innovators, They can improve on most anything but they cant start from scratch. The great Japanese ships were based on Italian war ships!