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Hot Rods January banger meet ... 2013

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by V4F, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,151

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    just thought i would get it going !
     
  2. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,437

    noboD
    Member

    Little early aren't you?
     
  3. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,151

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    yup , by 1/2 day !
     
  4. Just wanted to wish you all the very best for 2013 !
    May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, your cardiologist, your gastro-enterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, your podiatrist, your psychiatrist , your plumber and your accountant !
    Ron
     

    Attached Files:


  5. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,209

    RussTee
    Member

    Yep it was a good one just trying to keep out of the heat and repairing a wee bit of body damage to the cars after the earthquake. Dont know a bout a clean bill of health Ron but will keep going the best I can it may be a tricky year for some of us here in Christchurch as houses come down for rebuildsor even having to find new ones jobs maybe lost and new ones found but it is summer and it is Hot!!!
     
  6. oldpl8s
    Joined: Apr 11, 2007
    Posts: 1,399

    oldpl8s
    Member

  7. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Here is the banger link list .


    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/

    http://www.billsbangers.com

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=6

    Model B rod bearing insert numbers
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6992484#post6992484


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/tuning-with-a-vacuum-gauge-spg-148.html

    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6638461#post6638461

    Helpful Model A tools and tips:

    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculatorfin.jsp


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?access_key=key-w2bcjicdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/The-High-Speed-Internal-Combustion-Engine-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
     
  8. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    People driving bangers are used to being late but with style!

    Happy 2013!
     
  9. Hey Bluto - are you back in the USA or still over here in Europe?
     
  10. Thanks for the click-able link.
     
  11. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    We have fled the snow and will be touring the So. West
     
  12. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Well, I got my "new" engine back from Taylor Engine. Before I put it in my car, I decided to do some tweaks.

    So I started with the most irrelevant part of the engine. The oil pump / distributor drive. I wanted to improve the function and reduce the friction of this simple but important little unit.

    The picture below shows the stock unit on the bottom and the finished modified unit on the top.

    [​IMG]


    The stock unit consists of a cast iron housing, geared drive shaft, and a thrust collar. I figured that there is a fair amount of friction here, so I looked into what it would take to install some roller bearings.

    Here are the old and new parts I used:

    [​IMG]


    As you can see it all is pretty simple. This modification will add two neddle bearings and a roller thrust bearing to the assembly.

    The first step was to disassemble the old unit and measure the over all length.

    [​IMG]


    Then assemble the new geared drive shaft and get it's assembled dimension.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, there is a little too much difference between these two. But that will be taken up with the new thrust bearing.

    The modification to the housing involves boring each end to accommodate the needle bearings, and trimming the top end to make room for the thrust bearing.

    I used an expanding mandrel on my lathe to hold the housing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  13. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    With this set up I was able to bore the housing for the top needle bearing and trim the top surface for the thrust bearing.

    The thrust bearing assembly was @ .143" thick with the roller bearing and the two hardened bearing plates. There was already a .023" gap here from the new gear drive shaft assy. so I only needed to trim this area .120" to make room for the new thrust bearing assy. Because the top part of the housing is the register for the spring that holds it in place, I didn't want to remove all of it to make room for the thrust bearing. So I removed .100" from the housing and the machined .020" off of the thrust collar that is pinned to the drive shaft.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    In this same set up, I bored the housing for the Needle bearing deep enough so that the bearing had @ .0005" press and was @ .002" below the thrust face.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Then with out removing the mandrel from the chuck, I flipped the housing around and bored the bottom end of the housing for the other needle bearing. The depth of the bore on this end is important. The face of the bearing will determine the assembled length of the unit. The bearing length is .495" so I bored the housing to that depth. Now when the bearing is pressed in, the lower face will be were the housing face used to be.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Now it is time to assemble. Squirt some assembly lube on all of the bearings. Insert the drive shaft into the housing. Put the thrust bearing assembly over the top end of the drive shaft. Slide the thrust collar on and insert the retaining pin that holds the thrust collar onto the drive shaft.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Now you have a low friction oil pump / distributor drive unit.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  14. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,209

    RussTee
    Member

    good mod Dan I have found that the slots and tounges are often slogged out so work here can only improve the timing the little things that count.
     
  15. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,597

    BCCHOPIT
    Member

    Nice job DaddyO I was thinking of doing the trust washer but making the shaft run on bearings is a nice added trick.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  16. WOW! Nice job! Thanks for the clear pics and concise directions.

    Care to share the "secret" bearing numbers, now that you've done ALL the hard work?
     
  17. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I got them at McMaster Carr. Here are the catalog numbers:

    <table class="OrdDtlTbl"><tbody><tr class="OrdDtlRow"><td class="OrdDtlLnNbrCol">1</td><td class="OrdDtlPartNbrCol">5905K23</td><td class="OrdDtlQtyCol">2 Each</td><td class="OrdDtlDscCol">Steel Needle-roller Bearing, Open For 1/2" Shaft Diameter, 11/16" Od, 1/2"width</td></tr><tr class="OrdDtlRow"><td class="OrdDtlLnNbrCol">2</td><td class="OrdDtlPartNbrCol">5909K31</td><td class="OrdDtlQtyCol">1 Each</td><td class="OrdDtlDscCol">Cage Assembly For 1/2" Shaft Diameter, 15/16" Od, Steel Thrust Needle-roller Bearing</td></tr><tr class="OrdDtlRow"><td class="OrdDtlLnNbrCol">3</td><td class="OrdDtlPartNbrCol">5909K44</td><td class="OrdDtlQtyCol">2 Each</td><td class="OrdDtlDscCol">.032" Thick Washer For 1/2" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-roller Bearing</td></tr></tbody></table>

    .
     
  18. flyin-t
    Joined: Dec 29, 2004
    Posts: 1,348

    flyin-t
    Member

    pretty cool Dan
     
  19. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    You sure that the shaft is hard enough to run the needle rollers on?

    Ford ran rollers on soft shafts on the rear end housings, but the rollers were the coiled sheet "Hyatt" type which were more forgiving in that regard.


    Herb
     
  20. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    Very cool! Great banger tech!
     
  21. elmitcheristo
    Joined: Nov 10, 2007
    Posts: 351

    elmitcheristo
    Member

    I have a few questions about my latest estate sale find. The engine is Model A with a Weiand head and aluminum valve cover. I did find adjustable lifters. There is no provision for the external oil tube on the valve cover and there is a plug in the lower hole. I understand that the oil system has been worked on, but to what extent? Also, what should I be looking for as I inspect this engine?

    As I was going through some boxes today, I found the magneto. After a closer inspection, I thought that it just might bolt up on the side of a banger....and it does. The tag on the magneto says "CRAGAR 4VH MI84C SPL RACING." I am assuming that this would have been for relocating the magneto to get it out of the way on a Cragar overhead conversion. It looks like I will have to do some clearance work on the valve cover to get it where it needs to be and I will have to rework the exhaust to clear it. But, I thought it was kinda cool. Here are the pics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. What an estate sale!!! How was that advertised," old car parts and other junk?"
    That is some cool stuff!
     
  23. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Better pictures of the side of the block might prove that is a B engine.

    -
     
  24. elmitcheristo
    Joined: Nov 10, 2007
    Posts: 351

    elmitcheristo
    Member

    It doesn't have a hole for a fuel pump, but does have the hole in the block that the external oil tube would bolt up to. It's just plugged with a cap. I've got two other "B" engines and this is definitely an "A".

    It was quite a sale. I picked up two engines, 4 WICO mags (all for Ford engines), the mag in the picture as well as some other odds and ends. It wasn't advertised, I heard about it through a friend. Apparently the guy was quite the Ford collector, but liked his stuff to be stock. He would take off all of the speed equipment and stash it on the shelf......Perfect!

    Thanks Guys,
    Mitch
     
  25. Weeks46
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 1,495

    Weeks46
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Awesome Tech Dan, thank you for posting the whole modification process and part numbers.

    Awesome find Elmitcheristo! If there was more then 1 Weiand head in the stash I would be interested in it for one of my bangers if you would let it go.
     
  26. elmitcheristo
    Joined: Nov 10, 2007
    Posts: 351

    elmitcheristo
    Member

    Actually the other one was a Simmons Super Power head that now belongs to my friend ARodder (here on the HAMB). Pretty neat looking cast iron head.
     
  27. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,209

    RussTee
    Member

    Dan with the good well thought out tech projects you are putting out you better start thinking about a booklet good stuff mate infact with all the tec stuff here and products some produce a H.A.M.B. banger booklet of current ideas would be great? comments?
     
  28. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,184

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Thanks Rusty.
    The banger links that I post each month is kind of the same thing.

    .
     
  29. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,209

    RussTee
    Member

    true Dan but I often wonder if there was a common scense booklet for newbies it may stop a lot of repeated questions good work though and keep posting the banger links thanks
     
  30. I'm going to run a banger in my 31 Tudor with a few little goodies bolted on, just to break the "stock" mold. However, I do have a dilemma....

    The sedan came with a late 29 engine that, according to the previous previous owner, was completely rebuilt by a local machine shop back in the early 90's. Taking into consideration the virtual lack of any miles since 1996 (previous owner never signed the title, so no legal tags), and the fact that the owner before him was collecting parts and info right up until he sold it (he probably never put it on the road), I feel fairly confident that this banger should be in good condition......

    [​IMG]

    Then, there's the late 29 banger from a body-less coupe chassis I bought last summer. The complete car looked like it was really roadworthy with a lubed chassis that is complete. The tires have some checkering, but from 5 feet they look brand new. The head has been off,as the liquid gasket running down the side of the block indicates.....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The long shot (not really an option, but it may have been the superior engine in its day) is the early 31 that was original to the car, which was purchased from the previous previous owner.....

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    My next task is to pull the pans on each one and discern which one looks to be the hopped up banger of the future.

    Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. What else should I check? heads? Should I pull the cam? Is it worth pulling all the way down to check all the babbits? I'm not wanting a bruising banger, just something respectable without busting the already small budget.
     

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