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Technical ***January 2018 Banger Meet - Happy New Year!***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. modelAsteve
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 340

    modelAsteve
    Member

    Steve- V4F - only once!
     
  2. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,823

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    modelasteve ............. LOL
     
  3. Thanks for the clarification of "6k"! I was wasn't thinking "Elevation" (i.e. "Density Altitude")! I thought maybe I was missing something. How could a flathead survive regularly going to 6000 r.p.m.? OUCH!
     
  4. 5280A2
    Joined: Sep 8, 2014
    Posts: 102

    5280A2

    I have run Model A motors without the oil return tube in place to verify that the oil pump was in good condition. I can tell you that I believe you should have enough oil in the rear chamber to run out the return tube in less than a minute of running; a Model A pump pumps a lot of volume and there is very little restriction in the system to slow things down. I would highly recommend that you pull the pan and inspect the pump, I have had a later cast iron oil pump break while in place in the engine. It broke about an inch below the pan rail and as you can imagine, a lot of the oil being pumped went right back in the pan through the break. The spring on the bottom of the pump held it up in place, but it was noisy (you have an unexplained ticking) and the oil flow was compromised. Your pump may not be broken, but it may be totally worn out and not pumping as it should.

    I have also had the experience where the oil flowed over the dam in the front of the galley toward the timing gear before it would go over the dam to oil the center and rear main bearings. On my car it was due to running with a fair amount of rake that allowed the front dam to be lower than the second dam. I solved my problem by running an oil line from the fitting on the side of the block to a fitting I placed in the valve cover just to the rear of the second dam. Of course you would have to get your stuck plug out to do that, but if you pull the oil pump on your car you can go so far as to drill out the plug and re-tap it with 1/8 NPT threads. Since the pump is in a sleeved part of the block it would be easy to clean any shavings out before you replace the pump and oil pan.

    I would not risk a good running Model A engine to avoid removing the oil pan and pump; if you compromise a main bearing you have a real problem in both dollars and time and effort.
     
    Midnight Rider likes this.
  5. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,823

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    as he said - only once
     
  6. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,823

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I agree with 5280a2
     
  7. Herb Kephart
    Joined: Jan 9, 2017
    Posts: 93

    Herb Kephart
    Member

    My vote is either a broken pump per 5280A2 or clogged screen on the pump.. The oil should start running down the return pipe within a minute or so.
    Also re the 6Krpm--my point was that the chamber might be at it's best, only at an unattainable rpm.

    Read Ricardo, re square ended manifolds. As I recall, he explains them in the section about manifolds. Not as bad as they look.

    Herb
     
  8. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,244

    Stovebolt
    Member

    Hi guys - I just landed a second banger - this one has a perfect bottom end, recently re-ringed, B-Dizzy, and a few thou off the stock head to bump CR, and ran on a bench for 30 minutes - no oil leeks, no smoke, just some gudgeon pin noise.

    now I am wondering if anyone has machined a twin plate flywheel to suit a single plate V8 clutch plate,and if so are there any instructions out there to undertake this job?
     
  9. Midnight Rider
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 23

    Midnight Rider
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks fellas for all the replies.
    The return pipe flow within a minute is a good rule, and it seems you are all correct that oil pump problems are at hand. We will pull the pan and get onto it, and I will reply the result.
    We had thought about external oiling to the 2nd and 3rd dams, and like your thoughts on that.
    Will also check the rear mounts as think they were floater, but it was stock front.
    Really appreciate all your thoughts, and this is what I love about the banger boys.
    David
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  10. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,056

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    Jim Brierley head arrived :)
    IMG_0732.jpg IMG_0733.jpg
     
    Jet96, Dannerr, skip65 and 8 others like this.
  11. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,186

    RussTee
    Member

    Will be looking with interest at this my Rutherford does not line up well with the head will be interested in tube sizes lengths and design it would appear that often the back ports dont pull as well as the front any views on this?
     
  12. OHV DeLuxe
    Joined: May 27, 2005
    Posts: 350

    OHV DeLuxe
    Member
    from Norway

    I will pull the Original pre-war Rutherford Winfield intake down and check volume and spacing, the log itself is 2 1/2" OD with quite deep dead ends.
    The other intake, the Morales-Gemsa intake is very similar in volume and spacing, but with 2" ports.
    Duplicating is one thing, but a complete overview on why would be a good thing.
     
  13. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    HERB

    I KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT:cool:

    SORRY FOR THE LATE RESPONSE BUT NOTIFICATIONS ARE NOT AGAIN
     
  14. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Very nice, and VERY thick ...congrats !
    You know why he put his name on this beauty (besides vanity I mean..lol) ? No one seems to remember how to spell his name correctly. That's pisser, eh ! Brings back sour memories of team sports, when you did something well...and never got your name spelled right in sports write up.... Quiz: How many ways can this name be spelled wrong ? Answer: plenty.
     
    waxhead and Murocmaru like this.
  15. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,186

    RussTee
    Member

    The Morales-Gemsa may help speed up the air flow that will be of interest
     
  16. Midnight Rider
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 23

    Midnight Rider
    Member
    from Australia

    DSCN0060.JPG DSCN0066.JPG DSCN0069.JPG DSCN0071.JPG DSCN0059.JPG DSCN0081.JPG
    Just wanted to update you guys on our result.

    We pulled the oil pump and only had a small amount sludge and crud on the filter and in the sump.
    Pulled down and checked gears for wear and a little bit noticed. About .007 clearance in end plate and .003 to housing. So replaced with new gear set and surfaced housing to get clearance back to around .003 for end plate. Then ran in mates bare engine to compare with results we had done with his new rebuilt oil pump (which was about 4 times volume of Annette's).
    Problem solved, it is now pumping 5 times volume of oil from when pulled from old motor.
    Will now refit to Annettes motor and do a quick check before setting her free to roam.

    Last question if I can. We have noticed someone has put a long bolt in side plate mount hole and seems to have pierced the cast tube in the valve chamber as oil leaks out this threaded hole. Is there any easy way to check/repair a hole in this tube or if we seal the bolt will that allow full flow to usual places.

    Really appreciate the feedback from all of you guys to help sort this.
    Thanks
    David
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
    Dannerr likes this.
  17. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,823

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    use a good sealer on the bolt when installed . let it set-up before putting oil in it . clean it good with brake clean first .
    you did good . nice coupe !!
     
  18. Herb Kephart
    Joined: Jan 9, 2017
    Posts: 93

    Herb Kephart
    Member

    If you are talking about the lower of the two "bolts", that hole should be tapped with a pipe thread. If someone stuck a bolt in it, its no wonder it leaks.
    You have to remember that an A is like an old Harley. When they stop, they drip a little oil--just to mark the spot--like a dog.

    PS--I like the Sport coupe!!

    Herb
     
  19. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    LOCTITE PST SEALS MOST PROBLEMS OF MIS-MATCH THREADS UNDER HEAT AND PRESSURE... BUT DO CLEAN EVERYTHING WELL BEFORE YOU USE IT.

     
    Dannerr likes this.
  20. 5280A2
    Joined: Sep 8, 2014
    Posts: 102

    5280A2

    Glad you found the problem and solved it! Regarding the bolt and tube; all of the oil pumped into the valve chamber travels through that tube so it's important that the tube is not obstructed by the bolt. I agree that sealing the threads is adequate, but be sure to use the original (3/4-inch) length bolt to prevent blocking the oil passage. Was the hole drilled deeper and tapped because the original threads were stripped out?
     
  21. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,200

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Here’s the only banger I saw at the GNRS. Obviously
    a show piece. 35E82EFF-7621-4AC3-ADDF-F3F5C47563AB.jpeg
     
    Jet96, Dannerr, 32Dan and 4 others like this.
  22. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,823

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    nice motor !
     
  23. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,408

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like the award winning roadster built by Stokers shop.
     
  24. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,200

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    I get a trade magazine called the THE SHOP (https://theshopmag.com/). The February 2018 issue has a great feature by Tony Thacker on the Great Neck South High School car club that built a Model A for the TROG. May not be on line yet, but worth a read.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  25. blgitn
    Joined: Sep 13, 2011
    Posts: 104

    blgitn
    Member

    So, I finally got the shop (almost) finished and the truck is inside, ready to be resurrected.
    Shop 2.jpg truck 1.jpg
    truck 4.jpg
    truck 4.jpg
    when I get done it'll look something like this:
    1933_V8_Panel02.jpg
    Any advice or assistance is welcome!
     
    Jet96, Dannerr, Old Dawg and 2 others like this.
  26. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,056

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    Does anyone have a Model a Ford "Kong" side timing gear cover that they would be willing to part with ?? :)
     
  27. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 313

    Jiminy
    Member

  28. sorry to be late....picked up a few trans and stuff this month as the plan is to put a nice trannie behind my fresh banger motor to just drop in with a new clutch....and take what's been running in the chassie out for something else....any one to make a guess on that input main shaft - it was turned down at some point - just wonder what.....it's on what looks like to be a fresh rebuild that's been sitting around getting rusty...the two-two manifold was neat..... IMG_20180124_174559_976.jpg IMG_20180112_091819_621.jpg 20180123_114828.jpg 20180123_114920.jpg
     
    ROCKER77 and waxhead like this.
  29. thanks - hotrodfil - since it's the cleanest....looks like a fresh build....I'm thinking of just changing out that input shaft......
     

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