Is this safe? (wheel spacer question)

I need a bit more space between the front tires and the upper ball joints on my '63 Fairlane.

Can I (safely) put a couple of rather thin hardened washers, or one thick washer, on each stud, between the drum and the wheel? I can't see how that is any different than adding a spacer, and I don't need as much spacing as the spacers give. Also, with even a 1/8" spacer, my wheel studs would be too short with only 3/8" stud length left for the nuts. I'm figuring on about 1/16" thickness of washers. The wheel is a steel wheel, if that makes any difference.

I know I can do longer studs, but I'm trying to avoid that, if I can do it some other way safely.

 

no. but i did it to my friends mustang for a quick fix cause of the wrong wheel, i told him to get it fixed asap, it lasted about a month

 

My wife's '64 Rambler Typhoon had one Mustang wheel on it which was identical to the other Rambler wheels except for the backspacing... when I pulled it off, each stud had two washers on it. i'm sure they drove it around like this for years.

I wouldn't do it for a long term solution... but someone did it with this car and didn't lose a wheel.

I don't think i'd do it though... seems kinda sketchy.

Roll the dice say a hail mary.

 

Another bit of information to throw in the mix. The wheels are hub centric. With 1/16" washers, the wheel will be still be tight on the hub.

 

Thanks for the input.

I've always thought wheel spacers were sketchy anyway. But, I can't see how this would be any different than a wheel spacer.

 

True. And hell, if you tighten it down enough I doubt it'd loosen. Like I said, someone did it to our Typhoon and who knows how LONG it rolled around like that.

Just tighten the hell out of it, it'll probably hold up just fine. And if it didn't...

TOLD YA SO!

j/k

 

I,d look around for rims with less offset....

 

Torque to proper specs, don't strech them and have them pop when they encounter stress down the road.

After breaking things as a kid, an old timer told me, "tights tight and only a damn fool wants it any tighter"

 

R U NUTS?
Never use washer.
How much is yer life worth??

 

I've had my eye open for some, but they're going to have to be very skinny...gasser skinny. And, the prices on those have gone out the roof!

Even the stock 13" rims that came on the car with bias ply tires place the tires much too close to the upper ball joint. I can't find anything wrong/bent/etc that is causing this.

At least the washers should get me to the front end shop for professional diagnosis!

 

Explanation?

 

I have used wheel spacrs in the past ( like these )



Not the BEST solution but way BETTER than a few washers IMHO.

Most any wheel/tire/speed shop has them or there are always THOUSANDS of them on eBay.

 

Yeah--- Ya have no mating surface, just the face of the washer.
A wheel is designed to mate to the hub/drum.
Chance of snappin studs with washers, especilly when turning a corner.
Don't ask me how I know.
Trailer it to the F/E shop !!!!!

 

I do think that is probably the right answer. However, I really cannot think of any reason that hardened washers would not work equal or better than an aluminum ring, especially on a wheel centric application.

One problem is that the 1/8" spacers are hard to find. My local speed shop chain (state wide) does not have any in any of their stores or in their warehouse. They said that they might be able to order some. (I avoid eBay of at all possible, but may have to go that route this time.)

 

I would just change to longer studs and run a quality wheel spacer. one designed to stay hub centric.
http://www.atomicperformance.com/ma...bcentric5-lugwheelspacersfor94-04mustang.aspx
heres why:
If your clearance problem is in the upper ball joint/tire area how are you going to fix it with 1/16" worth of washers? the tire's side wall will move around some, if its the rim that you mean then you still have a problem with the stud length also.
If 1/8" spacer leaves your studs length at 3/8" then the 1/2" that you have now before washers and spacer is most likely already too short; assuming that the wheel studs are 1/2'' diam, there should be one and a half threads past the lug nut or 125% of the diameter treaded into a closed lug nut.

 

I can see that reasoning.

 

My pal in school used them and we heard something hit the fenderwell at 50 mph. Yep, it was the lug nut with the broken off stud. 3 out of 5 were gone!! We put new studs on all 4 hubs, threw the spacers in the trash where they belonged! Imo they are a band aid on a critical component. I learned my lesson that day. His dad called us dumb kids and he was right. NEVER again.

 

The tire is only barely touching the upper ball joint in corners when the tires flex. But it is touching too much for me to think its safe to drive. I just need a bit more to clear enough for me to think its safe.

Yeah. You may be right. I had planned to double check that tonight. Right now it has acorn nuts on it, though, so I can't judge that until I try some standard lugs nuts on it.

I really don't think I should be having this problem. I think that there should be more clearance with the stock wheels and tires than there is. Something is wrong in the front end. But, I can't find the problem. Everything is tight (ball joints, etc), and nothing appears bent.

 

In high school I used 2 washers per stud on my disc brake '67 Camaro to bolt on a spare tire for a non-disc brake wheel.

The next day it broke all the studs and I lost the wheel.
Lucky I was going slow.

 

Anybody have thoughts on what the real problem is? The ball joints appear not to be worn. The frame does not appear to be bent. Neither do any of the steering and suspension components. Could the camber be that far out of whack? Do these suspensions have that much adjustment to camber?

 

A good hardened washer should work just fine if properly torqued. I don't know where people get off on this wheel spacer topic as being dangerous. For instance, I'm on my third dually pickup running 2" spacers between the rear duals. Never once have I had any problem and you don't want to know how overloaded it pulls. If the people go to talking about the extra strain and stresses associated with this, I tell them to take a gander at the steer axle setup on a dually pickup. It's the same hub and rotor as the single wheel pickups just with a 4" steel factory "spacer". If properly engineered, there is nothing wrong with spacers. I get so tired of hearing this. A hardened flat washer where the studs fit somewhat tight will be fine. Steven.

 

could you grind off the ball joint a little for clearing

 

In high school I put 14 inch wheels on my 51 Ford. Used washers, lost both wheel centers in a few days............Don't do it!!

 

I had washers on the front wheel studs on my '32 for about a day . When I was at the tire store they told me I was crazy to use washers ( very very thin ones too) as spacers . My wheels did not seat evenly on my Lincoln drums so I tried washers to space them out . They sold me a pair like Deuce Roadster posted . On my car for the last 5000+ miles , no problems and their cost is very low .

 

Shouldn't a Fairlane have 14" wheels?

 

14" was the optional size. 13" was standard.

 

The area of the hub that the wheel sits on has a lot of friction which helps keep the wheel on as far as rotational torque is concerned.

With washers, you're depending solely on the strength of the stud in a single shear application.

Use of spacers retains that frictional area.

Your best bet is a wheel with the proper backspace.

You can find good to excellent steel wheels at the junkyard.

Pay attention to the lugnut seat and don't take any that have the seat wallowed out.

You can check them for true by spinning them on the axle or hub before unbolting.

You might think about the next wheel size up.
IE: 14" wheels, go for a set of 15's.

As far as developing the full available strength of the stud, if it's a 1/2" stud, you need to pick up at least a 1/2" of threads.

Potential wheel strength can be lost in a number of ways.

I've read engineering stuff that indicates if one lug nut is missing, wheel strength is compromised down to 55% and not the 80% you would think.

I don't know what it is when two lug nuts are missing, but I saw a late F-150 Ford pickup running three lugnuts on three wheels and four lugnuts on the remaining wheel.

Blind-assed utter stupidity.

Wheels and their retainment are no place to cheap out or do quick and dirty....

 

Yeah C9
Very well stated
"Blind assed utter stupidty"

As stated B4
Get it on a trailer and have a Pro look @ it.

 

Thanks for all the input, guys!

 

Maybe just get some 1/8" aliminum & make your own. I use 1/4" spacers on my hobby stock race car, I'd keep an eye on the tightness for street use.