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Technical Is this a Problem?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HuskerNation, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    16400AC8-AAE3-4CF8-892D-1790DF07AA94.jpeg DBA6D579-C6ED-4675-B6C6-F099A0C7F8A0.jpeg Working on the 54 Hudson Hornet over the last couple days as my wheel cylinders were leaking. I thought I had cross referenced them correctly. The only thing I see that concerns me is the depth I can screw the brake hose in on the new wheel cylinder, barely half way. My old wheel cylinders allowed the hose to screw all the way in with a copper washer.

    Now the inside of the new wheel cylinder looks like it would seal with my hose but I’ve never had threads exposed before on a wheel cylinder. Is this safe to do or is it a problem & I need to find other wheel cylinders?
     
  2. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,823

    rusty valley
    Member

    looks like that cylinder is made for a steel line, like on the back axle. I would not use it like that
     
  3. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,520

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    That ain't right..
     
  4. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,409

    The37Kid
    Member


  5. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,143

    BJR
    Member

    This. Wrong wheel cylinder for the front.
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    looks to me like it's going to be fine. You have a flare on the end of the hose, and a flare seat in the wheel cylinder. You have as many threads engaged, as the diameter of the threads, don't you? If not, then it could be a problem...how many threads are engaged? what size is the thread?
     
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  7. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    FA371B3A-FF7D-48CE-BD39-F907DB16520E.jpeg It appears to have 4 -5 of the 8 threads engaged. I was thinking the inside flairs of the hose end would seal up to the inside of the WC, but not having experienced the exposed threads it made me question it. They are definitely front WC’s at 1&1/8” per the listing for other applications. Actually listed as front & rear applications….
     
    Hitchhiker likes this.
  8. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

  9. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,114

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Well you aren't going to have any more thread engagement with a steel line and flare nut. So it should work just as well.

    However it would bug me just because it doesn't look right.
     
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  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    If it tightens and doesn't leak, it would not bother me. But I'm weird like that, I'm ok with stuff that works as designed.
     
    alanp561, VANDENPLAS and badshifter like this.
  11. carolina chevrolet
    Joined: Nov 14, 2018
    Posts: 135

    carolina chevrolet
    Member

    The connection is fine, I might fabricate a spacer to fill the void.
     
    5window likes this.
  12. Might put a small amount of blue loctite on the thread to insure not backing off.Dont use too much ,and have it leak back into the cylinder,and fluid.
     
  13. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 674

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    If the WCs are the correct size for the front, going by the actual size and not by what the box has printed on it, then the hose/WC is a compression fitting. It should be fine. I'm not too keen on having too long of exposed threaded section, mostly because I would be worried if the hose doesn't allow enough flex that the threaded section could become a weak spot. Otherwise it should be fine.

    One other note, since you are testing the fit with the WC not installed on the backing plate, the added length of the threaded section may be due to a clearance issue that is not present with the two parts just hanging out in space. With everything mounted on final install the added thread length may become apparent.
     
    HuskerNation likes this.
  14. If it seals and doesn't leak I would use it, but I would use some loctite on the threads to keep it from backing off from all the movement......just my paranoia.
     
  15. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 719

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    alls well that seals well !!
     
  16. Bird man
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 697

    Bird man
    Member
    from Milwaukee

    Guessing those parts are made in China? Anything is possible!
     
  17. bigdog
    Joined: Oct 30, 2002
    Posts: 683

    bigdog
    Member

    If tightened correctly it's no more likely to come loose than a steel line with a flare nut on it. And if you used a steel line with a long flare nut it would have as many threads exposed. It's fine.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  18. The hose end with the inverted flare seals against the insert in the wheel cylinder. Don't overthink it. This is not rocket science and safety will not suffer from the exposed threads. If you are anal about these kind of things you could fabricate a small spacer to fill the gap and hide the exposed threads.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,604

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you don't like the way it looks:

    Cut the fitting down so it only has six threads.

    Re-machine the flare.

    Tighten.

    Bleed.

    Drive.
     
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  20. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,823

    rusty valley
    Member

    Yeah, it would work as is like many have posted, but dont ya think it would look kinda goofy? At a show, even a girl might say" whats up with that brake line?" If you are lucky, you would be off buying a cheeseburger and not hear that, but why not just fix it now
     
    HuskerNation likes this.
  21. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,953

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    How about a lock nut on the exposed threads? Just a thought.
     
  22. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,495

    Mart
    Member

    If that were a Ford there would be a mismatch on the thread pitch. The cylinder looks like it was intended for a steel line fitting which is 7/16-24. The brake hose looks like 7/16-20. Like I said, this is definitely the case with early Ford. Can't say on those, but if it doesn't fit like stock something is wrong somewhere.
    Are you sure you do not have a front/rear unintended switch?
    Do you have the old parts to compare with?
    Parting shot: the taper seat might be removeable. (might).
    Mart.
    Edit: I just looked and hudson are 3/8-24 on both hose and cylinder so at least the threads match.
    FWIW lots of Metric hoses connect directly like that, but do not have the inverted seat.
    I'd still be looking at how the old parts were fitted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Tim and rusty valley like this.
  23. So; what did the old hose and wheel cylinder look like?

    While that arrangement may work; it just looks wrong.
     
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  24. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 8,363

    5window
    Member

    Hah! I find,in general, that "girls" are far more observant of details than "boys".
     
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  25. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    You know I’d be chasing a cheeseburger didn’t you!

    Great suggestions everyone & I wanted to follow up to let y’all know I got lucky & found another pair of front wheel cylinders with the correct hose depth I needed to use a copper crush washer to seal it up. There was an approximate 0.025” smaller diameter on the part which seats into the backing plate. I tried it once home & it shouldn’t be a problem. Thanks again everyone!!!

    DC5B43C1-4FDE-43DF-A5E7-28CA952E4895.jpeg A3FDA5FD-0B26-4F8A-988A-750A528981A9.jpeg
     
    41 GMC K-18, 5window and rusty valley like this.
  26. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,495

    Mart
    Member

    Do you think the other cylinders may be for the back, or just some completely different application?
     
  27. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    The front are 1.125” bores & rears are 15/16” bores, so there is a definite difference on what this car takes. However the first set of front WC’s I picked up had hose female ends that looked just like the rear WC’s I installed.
    When I contacted Dorman to ask about the change for “cross referenced” WC’s they said they make changes like what I experienced to make the WC more universal, so they don’t have to make as many different WC’s.

    Needless to say I’m saving the old WC’s and will be dismantling them to see if they can be rebuilt with a kit & saved as backups.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
    41 GMC K-18, osage orange and RMR&C like this.
  28. If the bores are too pitted for rebuild; you could get them sleeved.
     
  29. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 304

    HuskerNation
    Member
    from Montana

    Thanks for the suggestion! I’ve heard of re-sleeving & will eventually do it to my 37 Hudson Coupe’s original MC. It’s just so cool to me that Lockheed was involved in making these MC’s with Wagner. Then again, in 1937 hydraulic brakes were pretty much “rocket science”!

    2C8B31A1-18D7-4F27-B3DA-F41FECB3AE6E.jpeg

    I’m currently repacking the front outer wheel bearing again as I put it all back together. The red bearing grease had turned black at the bearing. Kinda concerning because I just put in all new bearings, races & seals only 2 months or a couple hundred miles ago. I’m pretty sure I cleaned the new bearings but I could be mistaken, so new grease will tell me how they wear in the future.

    E0BA5995-63C9-40FF-BD7E-1679731E8DC3.jpeg

    5E6B3955-C92A-4251-AC50-2DC5D2A37498.jpeg
     

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