I have been trying to learn to gas weld sheetmetal, and quite frankly- I've been getting my ass handed to me with it. I've been almost to the point of saying "screw it" and going to my buddy's house and picking up my MIG, but this is really important to me to learn. I will stick with it until I get it down. I have already used MIG to put a body back together, and there's nothing wrong with it, I just have a major hard-on for learning gas welding. My welds have been coming out one of two ways: either with poor penetration and very brittle, or I burn through. There seems to be no middle ground. I've tried 0 and 00 tips, and different flames- it doesn't seem to make a difference. I know there's a lot of threads on this subject. Believe me, I've read them. I need to see it done right firsthand, and be able to ask questions along the way. Anyone want to show off a bit in front of someone who will be majorly impressed? I'd bring money, beer, pizza, sweep your garage, scrape grease off of old parts, block sand, shovel dog crap, paint your house or whatever.
Go to 'AllMetalShaping.com' they'll fix you right up. There are experts on gas welding on there that know how to explain, they'll direct you to some utube videos and if you are inclined they'll sell you one of thier videos. They gas weld everyday doing resto work etc and whatever problems you are having they have dealt with thousands of times.
Absolutely not. Gas welding is an art. It requires practice. Start with thicker metal, say 11 guage and learn to run a bead. Then progress to thiner sheets and soon you will be doing it like a pro. It is critical that you wear proper goggles that allow you to see your puddle. As in any welding, if you can't see what you are doing, you can't weld. Poor penetration is from a cold weld and brittlen is usually from too hot or too small of a rod. What are you using for filler metal. Gas welding rods are better than old school (cheap) coat hangers.
Hey, Your issue sounds like inncorrect flame use! For welding carbon steel sheetmetal you want a netural- one that burns equal parts oxygen to acetylene. If a flame overrich in oxygen is used, a brittle weld and/or burn thru holes would be the result expected, as oxygen burns hotter than a balanced flame. Sorry I can't be of more help from here in Californa . " All great truths begin as blasphemies "
Pimpin, I'd bet real money that you're dead-on right. Nothing else makes any sense- I'm using copper coated steel rods, the metal is clean (even though I've read that perfectly clean metal isn't essential), I've got plenty of experience working a puddle. I appreciate everyone's suggestions, and I really appreciate the PM I got. Rest assured I'll be calling tomorrow. My wife doesn't understand why I don't just go get my MIG and use it. I tried explaining that this is a traditional technique, and a dying art that I simply MUST learn.
Are you using propane by chance???if so you will get exactly what you are describing.If you are using Acetylene It sounds as if you have a oxidising flame.(too much O2), you should be running low gas pressures as well 2-4 psi with the small tips. you want a soft flame, adjust by lighting the torch W/fuel only , add a little O2 and adjust the o2 til the outer lite blue flame is just about to merge with the inner cone. The flame should not sound like it is hissing or any harsh flame sound...it should be quiet like a gas stove....Hope that helps...Shawn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZlcSzQSRkM&feature=related
This got posted awhile back, might pick something up from it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522546
Do you know Tom Cubertson - has a hot rod shop on Lynhurst just south of Minnesota - he's as ol'school as you can get.
just checking ....acetylene is gettin' a little hard to come by....propane is good for cutting /heating/brazing , but not welding....something about the inability to get a real netural flame.....Shawn
Brian, too bad you're all the way over there by Indy. I might be able to make the 2 hour drive your way sometime this month and see if I can help ya out. I've been spoiled with my Henrob, but I can still work with a plain old torch. Most of the advice given here has been spot on as well. Tim D.
you might try finding some torch welding rod. not many places carry it anymore, but it flows out better than TIG rod does. Also might explain some of the issues you are having. I agree with most of the posters, too much o2. Dial that flame in and get it set right, and you'll be good to go.
I can do it but I gave it up for TIG. Yes I've professed the merits of MIG too in the past. Sometimes it's the only way and works better with a helper and EG wire which is costly. Soft mild steel rod is an OK choice for O/A. You need to make sure your supplier has an old-timer there to help you select the best grade. There's several and just any old rod won't do. The rest is found in the time behind the goggles and all the good advice here and select metal working links on the 'net. I applaud your desire to go for it the old way. It really is a rewarding experience, but don't be put off by the majority that won't "get it" when you try to share the accomplishment. That's really just for you alone. I hope you'll share some of it with us who do get it. Gotta love a good weld.
Welding, no matter the method is about 20% know how, and about 80% practice. Some good advice here. The thinner stuff is harder, but if you cant find something thinner, try doing some lap joints till you can run a good bead.Butt welding 20 ga is difficult, start on something easy and work up to that. Get in a very quiet place if you can and listen to the puddle. I know you'll think I m crazy, but you'll learn the sounds it makes, just before it "pops", pick up the torch for a second. You'll learn the sound of blowthrough too, stop before it gets bigger. Get you some old coathangers, sand the paint off them, and practice. Dont waste you money on the good rods for practice. After you get a good bead down pat, buy some different rods and play with them. Teach yourself what works good together. Some times you cant clean up the surfaces, but you'll always get better results if you do. Find yourself some old scraps and experiment, dont take my word for it. Make sure the tip is clean and sharp. If the flame looks round, or forked, stop and clean it up. Be patient. You wont be good at this in a week or two.There is a reason people in a hurry threw down the torch and ran when the MIG became cheap and available.
hey fbama73 i just sent you a message. give me a call so we can get together and see what's going on. thanks, ron
RG45 is what I use for gas welding when I have it. ER70s6 works good too, I'm guessing this is what your using. Please let us know exactly what filler rod you are using. For thin sheet metal some .035 Mig wire (ER70S6 or ER70S2, The S2 will be softer if you want to plannish) will work good. If you're using 1/16" Tig rod you sort of have to wick a small amount off of the tip of the rod, otherwise you'll get too much fill. Also similar to tig you can vary your heat. Instead of pulsing the pedal, you pull the torch back, it will take a lot of practice to get the amount of heat right, eventually you should be able to run the bead with out backing off. Get your puddle going and run like hell! Good luck sir.
First of all, let me say thanks to all who have offered hints and suggestions. Monday morning, I went out to Rooman's shop, and he showed me my problem in just a few minutes. As suspected, it was the flame. What I thought was a neutral flame, was actually a carburizing flame. All of my experimentation with different flames was in varying degrees of wrong. I had to work Monday afternoon, so I didn't get as much time to practice with it as I would have liked, but I did get about a half hour to work with it just before work, and the results are night and day. Penetration is now very good, and the welds are nice and malleable. A little more practice (Rex is right) and I'll be good to go. BIG time thanks to Rooman- I very much appreciate taking the time to help me out. It was the boost I needed to move forward.
glad you got it sorted out, gas welding is a real pleasure to do when you get it down. Have fun, Kris
Hey, If you are only new to gas welding, there is a tip you need to know. When you go to get your cylinders filled/exchanged, take your regulators with you and check that the cylinders are FULL. Around here the gas agents will sell you an empty!
The Jalopy Journal
