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Is there any wyotech or other auto trade school teachers out there

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by eddytheb, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. wsdad
    Joined: Dec 31, 2005
    Posts: 1,258

    wsdad
    Member

    The boss can't control what jobs come through the door. He has to make money to stay in business in order to first pay himself, then pay you. He also has to pay for the building, lights, phone, insurance, equipment, materials and advertising. If a dented fender comes in, someone has to do it or that money will leave for another shop.

    Fixing dents allows him to be in business in order to also fabricate frames. There are many more average Joe's with dented fenders and insurance companies willing to pay for their repair than there are rich guys who are willing to pay out of their own pockets for someone to only build them a frame and suspension, and then agree to take that frame and suspension home to finish it out them self because they don't want you to feel "unfulfilled" about your life or work. There are no customers who ask, "Frame and suspension only, please."

    No one cares about how you feel. That's what wives do. (I highly recommend getting an unselfish one. She will give you something to really live for. You'll generally find more of them in churches and charities, not bars.) The boss only wants you to make money for him and the customer wants you to fix his dent. If you do a good job, the customer will give your boss some money, he will pay all those bills and himself. Then he will give you some money. That's the agreement between you, your boss, the customer and the insurance company. That's how it works. Your feelings have nothing to do with it. The customer isn't going to say, "I really wanted someone to fix my car but I can see how that would make you feel dispassionate about your job so here's $500.00 plus a tip." You have to do the mundane stuff BEFORE you get to do the exciting stuff. That's in any field. Look around you at your older friends. Even nature teaches this lesson. You can't eat cake and candy all the time or you'll slowly die of diabetes. You have to stay healthy by eating your meat and vegetables first. Just think of the dented fenders as the health food that keeps you alive so that you can enjoy candy once in a while.

    If you try to be good at ALL the stuff that makes money instead of just the things you're "passinate" about, you'll be much more valuable to the people who have the money you want. People don't give you money unless they are getting something out of the deal.

    Good luck. I hope I wasn't too hard on you, Nancy. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  2. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,595

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    The one guy that I hired from Wyotech, didn't know how to do anything but weld. Had to teach him how to adjust an alternator belt. His fab skills were really lacking compared to his resume. The other Wyotech guy never came back to talk to me after stopping by one day. I actually have two guys that view this as an apprenticeship. That's good. But I also have a guy that strolls in a few mintues late everyday. We open at 10am. How can you not make it on time?
     
  3. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,210

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    There's another example I've delt with. Someone who picked up less than 100% of what they were taught. We had a guy who was #1 in the USA and #3 in the world of the Miller welding competition. He was hired where I was employed previously. The running comment about this kid was how good he could weld but couldn't fabricate a sandwich. We were doing some tube work on 2 cars, same model and year, different body styles. Everything from the front seat forward was the same and only 2 bars were different at the rear. You can make 2 at the same time before installation much faster. He refused. He even went and made a major issue about it to the supervisors and litterally threw a fit about how the job was to be run (it was my job). Because of his welding skills they actually thought his bitching had merit and came out to see me and the job. I clearly and professionally stated my process, my timing, and just a few of the reasons why. When asked why not at least give a try to 'cry baby's' idea I also clearly stated how much more time and reminded them of the deadline. Being time and mat'l work it was easy $$$ and free OT which was maybe 1% of my motivations. Then I did what I mostly refuse to do. I ratted the fucker out for his behavior, disrespect, damaged and wasted stock, and apparent lack of fab skills, requesting that in fact, I want him off this job. He nearly cried like a lil bitch and they took him back up front. When he came back to the job he'd appologized and did word for word everything I said. The job went well and we actually got paid double time for 8hrs on the last day and only worked 3, their reward for job well done and even with the extra 5hrs for the 3 of us came in well under the 3 jobs before it.

    The shame is what the kid thought, his lack of respect and inability to see and know what was happening and how much easier the whole process was for all involved. You can't give someone the maturity it takes or the security to just listen to a 'senior' without quibling over juvinile bullshit. It's not a 'big dick' contest. It's a job and a skill that gets developed over time. There's always elements to a skilled trade that can only see growth with time and practice. That's the most challenging lesson an educator must face IMO.
     
  4. OlDawg
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 15

    OlDawg
    Member

    Interesting thread. My son graduated from Wyotech (Blairsville PA campus) back in Mar 2008 so I am looking at this from a little different perspective than some of the other posters. My son had some experience working on cars both at home and more importantly at local shops. He found a job with a large dealership in VA which recruited regularly at Wyo. I got talking to the supervisor there the day we brought my son's tool box down and the supervisor said they have been really happy with the kids from there. Since they continue to go back and hire more I guess the actions back up the words. He did say not all of them work out. Sometimes a guy is good with books, but not with his hands, sometimes they get homesick and leave. In any case, this dealership, and the ones my sons friends went to, seemed pretty happy with the grads over the years and keep returning to Wyo.
    My son said the education was very good though some courses were better than others. The basic courses could start out pretty simple, if you had experience, as some kids would be really new to the field. I was impressed with with how well they taught some things. They seemed to make sure that you knew what you were doing - like when they were disassembling and reassembling a transmission and the instructors saw kids keeping the parts in the order they took them off - the instructors mixed up the parts saying you have to KNOW where the part goes, no memory helpers. Do you still have more to learn when you get out of school? Sure.

    My humble observation about the kids is that they tended to fall into three broad groups:

    1) Clowns. Life is a joke. Never worked at anything. Never cared. Parents made them apply. They tend to do just awful.
    2) Gearheads. Love cars, here for the work, less so for the books.
    3) The Focused. Woke up one morning, maybe with a wife and kids, and realized that working at McD's asking "Fries with that?" is really tough way to go through life. These guys are focused and do the best. Interestingly, sometimes they are former clowns.

    Employers vary too. My son loves hot rods but the jobs in the HR shops paid way less then the dealerships. At some point for many kids they gotta think about making a living too. A lot of the best kids go to where the pay and benefits are. The fun stuff ends up a hobby. If you're not willing to pay the best, you may not end up with the best kids knocking on your door - sorry, but it's really true.

    P.S. my son's favorite course at Wyo was chassis fab. I see we have a poster that is an instructor for that course. You must be doing something right. : )
     
  5. OlDawg
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 15

    OlDawg
    Member

    Forgot to mention. There sure seemed to be a big emphasis on having a proper work ethic at Wyo PA. No excuses about being late, even if there's a snow storm. Must show up and on time every day. Dress and appearance code too.
     
  6. eddytheb
    Joined: Sep 2, 2008
    Posts: 125

    eddytheb
    Member

    OlDawg how long ago did your son finish up school, how long has he been at the dealer, whats his job there and whats his pay scale if I can ask.
     
  7. OlDawg
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 15

    OlDawg
    Member

    Eddy, he graduated Mar 2008 and started working Mar 31st 2008. He is a VW mechanic. After about a year there VW paid to have him and another guy attend their factory school in Maryland for about a week if I remember right, so he does a lot of the problem cars that are tough to diagnose and fix. Not sure on pay, I never want to be too nosy of a dad. He's gotten a couple of raises. I am sure the Wyo placement office can tell you what guys are getting now. It's probably stayed flat or maybe down with the economy being slow.
     
  8. eddytheb
    Joined: Sep 2, 2008
    Posts: 125

    eddytheb
    Member

    Well allot has happened in my life and shop since I started this post, I only heard from the school once and that was it, I never heard from the young man who's heart I ripped out and stepped on that day I had to drop the reality hammer. I never hired anyone else or even tried and after the move to the new location in April my last employee of almost 15 years and best friend retired, the drive would have been to much and he was really ready for some more family time. He worked his ass off helping me move and get my new signs done after I was moved. The new shop is awesome its in a way better area all new inners, heat , electric ect and after spending the spring, summer and fall working on the building its 90 % done and I started working again the middle of November. I am working alone again after 15 or more years no helpers other than the family, the wife has her upholstery shop on site and the house is also on site so I have my son to help when he's not tarring up the play station. I did almost all the work on the building myself because some of the so called friends that needed things fixed when they needed it were to busy when it was payback time (funny how that is LOL) but I did it all my way and could not be happier with the new place. I say I never want employees again all the time and think I really mean it but I am way to busy for one person and really miss having someone around. Oh hell I will say it I miss the few good helpers I had and the ones that made the day fun the ones I could push to really make the jobs come out great. I miss the teaching and mentoring parts over the years (I bet I turned 5 detail guys into painters and a few so called painters into detail guys) I miss the guys that would come over and say can you show me how to do that as I was welding of machining something but it just seamed that as time went on it happened less and less and become more about getting paid the most for doing the least. I have heard all kinds of school horror stories since all this started and the few times I dealt with the schools to place someone in my shop it has been nothing short of a disaster but something in me wants to try again not an employee type just yet but maybe just someone to hang out with and show a few thing I have learned over the years. I cant tell you how I want to or should handle it or if I kina wish some one would just show up. I don't want it to be about money I refuse to pay someone $20.00 an hour and have to take the time out of the work day to teach them the things they claim to already know, I have lived all that. I want to be able to find someone that appreciates what they are being taught and if I pay them to do something its a bonus. I am in no way looking for free help I can just keep going all by my self and live just fine, just think it would be fun to have a hot rod buddy for now. Someone shows me the goods and they may just change my mind about having employees I know there are good ones out there. I am at a point in my life were I don't need much and it maybe time to give back again its seams a shame not to be passing the trade on.
     
  9. RichG
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,919

    RichG
    Member

    I didn't realize that we had met!:p (Of course, it wasn't McD's, but it might as well have been! Strangely enough I have to say "Thanks Enron" for giving me the second chance...:eek:)

    A lot of people will tell you to stay away from retrained workers, I say they're the best bet because they know that life can suck and they are striving to make a difference. Just my two bits. Again. :D
     
  10. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,595

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Funny thing is Wyotech keeps calling me. I've told them a couple times that I'm not interested. If the person seeking a job can't take the time to contact me themselves. Well then I guess they really don't want the job.
     
  11. poofus1929
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 897

    poofus1929
    Member
    from So Cal

    My old boss hired a guy who just graduated from UTI and he put a set of brake pads on a Volare frontend backwards.:eek: When I say backwards, I mean metal backing plate towards the rotor. Looks like his parents money was well spent.
     
  12. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,210

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    eddytheb...you're a good man. I'm going out on a limb here and I think it would be good to show this post with all of it's replies and what you've just posted here today to the next 'young gun' that you end up with. There's a lot of perspective in this thread that's hard to put into words when you're one on one with a prospect. it should hammer home what you expect and what's at stake for you and your workers. Just a thought.
     
  13. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    The car club I belong to sponsors some of these kids .I sent a copy of this thread to one of the members in charge of this, because this year no contact.We are going to look into this........
     
  14. Swifster
    Joined: Dec 16, 2006
    Posts: 1,449

    Swifster
    Member

    I think a lot of perspective needs to go into a decision of a career. In the early '80's when I graduated from high school, two friends and myself went to the old Motech, run by Chrysler. When we got out of high school, we thought we knew it all. This was for becoming a mechanic. After we got out of Motech after a year, it was scary because we left thinking we didn't know shit.

    One guy still works at the service center that he did in high school. He does a great job and makes a decent paycheck. He's worked for the same guy for the last 30 years. His big concern is the owner retiring and closing or selling off the business.

    The other guy started at a Chrysler dealer doing new car prep and light repair. He was out of site of the shop dispatcher so he wasn't bothered too much. He went to Colt Industries (Holley Carburetor) and now works at Borg Warner. He's an inside guy doing a white collar job.

    I started at the same Chrysler dealer doing oil changes and lite repair. I was sllooowwww. Motech wasn't using the relatively new 'K' car during a lot of the schooling, and many of the stuff was wind noise, water leaks, broken trim etc. The first door handle I did took almost an hour. The second one took 15 minutes.

    I lasted about a month :D. But I also realized how much I REALLY hated getting dirty. Now the training didn't go to waste. I went to a Chevy dealer and then a Cadillac dealer as a service writer. They make decent money too. At the Cadillac dealer, I handled all of the theft claims and worked with the insurance adjusters when they came in. This led to a job at an insurance company and I've been in claims ever since. But that training is what got me there.

    If someone would have said I'd be working as an adjuster at age 21 when I was in school, I would have said they were crazy. The mechanical training gave me an advantage over many guys in the business because I could write my own suspension damage, theft damage, engine issues and so on.

    Many of the young guys need to look at the new job as an apprentice. As mentioned, I left Motech thinking I didn't no crap. But I always learned at whatever job I had. If they think they know it all, they're in deep do-do.

    My mechanical skills at this point fall under the heading of 'shade tree'. I can do the diagnosis and I can do the repair, but I could never make a living at it now.
     
  15. Merge
    Joined: Oct 7, 2004
    Posts: 379

    Merge
    Member

    I graduated Wyotech in June of 2005. I learned a TON out there, but it all came at a price. The price was dedication, commitment, and my time. Just like it is in life when you want something bad enough, you have to work for it! I met a lot of kids just there for the ride and a handful of kids who really wanted to learn something.

    I attended for twelve months and got hired into the aviation inudstry two months after graduation as an upholstery technician. The skills I learned at Wyotech were just the begining, but gave me an excellent jump start. Sure, I don't build hot rods for a living, but after working the last four years and "playing" with old cars as a hobby, I feel I get the best of both worlds. Some people have told me that I paid WAY too much for my education. I don't know about that, it seems that everything I have today is in some part thanks to the education I received and the hard work I have put into it. It comes down to the old saying: "You get out what you put in"
     
  16. fordcragar
    Joined: Dec 28, 2005
    Posts: 3,179

    fordcragar
    Member
    from Yakima WA.

    Only you will determine if you paid too much for your education. Everything that you learn in your life is part of your education; sometimes it will be cheap, other times it won't.
     
  17. SakowskiMotors
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,242

    SakowskiMotors
    Member

    I think that echos many many shops out there. I often wonder why no one wants to work at a hot rod shop.
    Oh, maybe it is because I started at 8 this morning, and now it is 10pm.... I think you just have to love it. I get on the Hamb every once in a while to keep the day from being too boring.
    I miss the few times over the last 20 years when we were in it together. Those always turned into the best years.
     
  18. aussiesteve
    Joined: Jan 6, 2004
    Posts: 808

    aussiesteve
    BANNED

    Wyotech,What can I say?
    We had one of their Graduates working at the shop.we build high end toys for our boss(private shop).Not really HAMB friendly stuff.
    Really nice kid but had no clue or mechanical aptitude.
    Anyone who wet sands with one hand while talking on the phone with his girlfriend just doesn,t get it.
     
  19. Skrayp
    Joined: May 31, 2008
    Posts: 197

    Skrayp
    Member

    Don't give up hope guys. There's still a few of us out there that don't mind working. Especially on hot rods. Hell, I can't get anyone I work for or with on the same page as me when it comes to that stuff. Nope, they would rather have me fix a shitbox civic with the whole front end ripped off and throw all chinese parts on it since its for Nationwide (the wal mart of the insurance industry). I need to hurry up and throw my hat in the ring before I lose enthusiasm for cars all together. All I ever wanted to do was build hot rods, not collision work. Everybody around here says "nah, you don't want to do that stuff, there's no money in it. The cars eat up materials and time and the customers don't want to pay what the job is worth". I'm gonna start looking anyway because I feel like a used up whore lol.
     
  20. kustom66cat
    Joined: Aug 11, 2007
    Posts: 157

    kustom66cat
    Member

    With that said, any tool can walk into a shop and say they finished at the top of there class. What a pant load!:confused:
     
  21. Jarred Hodges
    Joined: Jul 30, 2008
    Posts: 564

    Jarred Hodges
    Member

    I am currently enrolled at the community college taking diesel tech. It is a pretty good program. If you fool with cars before you start it will work out good. If you go in without any experience on cars you are probaly screwed. About 1/2 the class graduated this semester and they know what they are doing for the most part. I am enjoying it and learning a decent amount.
     
  22. kustom66cat
    Joined: Aug 11, 2007
    Posts: 157

    kustom66cat
    Member

    Anyone looking for a 40 yr old shop bitch in the northern Oakland Co. Mi. area contact me.
     
  23. yes isent it funny young turks ????along time ago i was one myself i think it was 1970 i was lucky i had good teachers one use to wack my legs ,the other said think before u do some thing the 3rd one said love and be prould of your work so after about 20 years.. i was asked to be a part time teacher ..and i taught brake and front end on day one i spent 18.00 cnd
    as the class sat down i grabed the pointer and waited till they wher quietjust to show them who was boss i broke the pointer over a desk and then told them if u want to waste my time get out if u want to learn then stay
    we had a 94% job placement that year and won the GM car they all learnd and had nice marks at the end of the year i have had a few app,s and only 3 have turned out good in there field they all have or run there own shops now
    so be hard but easy on the young turk,s
     
  24. i was thinking of going to wyo tec when i get out of the marines and use my gi bill to pay for it. Seems that its a crock of shit and i wouldnt want to waste my time with it. Ill have to figure something else out.
     
  25. Sorry you feel that way. Maybe you should carefully read ALL the posts on this thread. The only one who can make Wyotech work for you is...YOU.
     
  26. WOW....im totally blown away. It sounds to me like these schools are more like seminars where they explain how its done but they dont have the time or resource to actually have you do the work.
     
  27. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,595

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC


    Yep, and you should already have a little mechanical knowledge under you belt.
     
  28. ground pounder
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 71

    ground pounder
    Member
    from ontario

    i have had the same problems finding people to work an i own a shop across the street from a high school for ten years now and i can count the intrested kids on one hand /but the problem is they have noty been taught anything at all...they ask what i am doing when i'm do'n the most basic things....i learned from the school of hard knocks was raised by a veitnam vet out of new york an had brothers who robbed banks ya they got caught did the time but i was the youngest an got all the fall out from them by the cops...but i still made it through dealing with insurance write offs through impact an dealing with all the comuists that go along with the restration trade an collision industry an yes i went to collage an always jkeep an open mind i have learn a few things in life from some of the biggest jackass's anyone could imagine an u can to if u keep an open eye ..more l8ter..dinner time
     
  29. Master of None
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 2,279

    Master of None
    Member

    Its pretty common to find young kids that don't have a clue what your doing, even the simplest of tasks. Most don't care and most parents are too busy or not involved enough with their kids. So one way to look at it is you at least had one put down the cell phone/ Ipod and other video game garbage and asked. Those are the few kids left that may have a chance.
     
  30. bigblock69n
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 63

    bigblock69n
    Member

    I graduated from a auto diesel trade scholl in 2000. What I learned there was how to read a service manual and diagrams. I was told i could walk into any where and do anything But I knew that wasn't true. I got out and did not even want to wrench for a while because i could not belive the money I had spent to just be told to read the bookand it will tell you what to do. Now I am a Diesel tech with a nationwide company and I loe it but It was not just handed to me. But I also have a Cousin that graduated from MMI and thought he could tell people what he wanted to do. When the place he wasworking at stared him off at the bottom, he quit and is still looking for a job. I dont know if it is a way for the colleges to make you fell like you got what you payed for or what. They all seem to drive it into your head tht you are the s--t that dreams are made of when you graduate.
     

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