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is there a better 'bolt on" carb for a 235?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by worthop, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. worthop
    Joined: Sep 19, 2005
    Posts: 441

    worthop
    Member

    I have a 1954 Blue Flame 235...is there a better carburetor that will bolt onto the stock manifold? maybe something a little more responsive?
     
  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,032

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All tuned up good? Timing set properly? Accelerator pump shot strong?
     
  3. 'Mo
    Joined: Sep 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,432

    'Mo
    Member

    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
  4. Carter YF for a Chevy is a huge improvement over the leaky teakettle Rochester.


    Even a Carter W1 may be better, they're a tad easier to find as older 216s used them.
     

  5. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,008

    carbking
    Member

    "better"??? Perry Mason used to object as to "calling for a conclusion of the witness" ;)

    Both Carter and Stromberg offered several different aftermarket units which were sold as "direct replacements" for the Rochester (one size may fit all, but it doesn't necessarily follow that one size will work well on all). Many enthusiasts (including myself) feel that a correct replacement Carter or correct replacement Stromberg is a big improvement over the Rochester. Do your homework, get the correct replacement, and it will be pretty much a "bolt on swap".

    Additionally, Zenith offered a number of "universal" aftermarket replacement units. While some adaptation is necessary, these units work very well.

    And while I am in the group that believes the W-1 mentioned above is superior to the Rochester, the W-1 uses a different mounting "footprint" than the Rochester on the 235, thus it is not a "bolt on".

    Jon.
     
  6. worthop
    Joined: Sep 19, 2005
    Posts: 441

    worthop
    Member

    Yeah, Car is tuned up and running well....the carb seems to be in good condition. ' just looking at 'better' options.

    Anybody use that Weber 32/36 carb?
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,032

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I run one on a 144. Works very well.
     
  8. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,591

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    I believe that a Stromberg BXUV-3 was the intended replacement for a 235 Rochester B, although there were several variations of that particular Stromberg model.
     
  9. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,008

    carbking
    Member

    Here is a listing of the Carter type YF specifically produced for Chevrolet. Somewhere, I have a similar list for Stromberg.

    List:

    Carter YF carburetors produced for use on Chevrolet

    756s – 216 engine aftermarket 1937~1952
    787s – 216 engine aftermarket 1937~1952
    788s – 235 engine aftermarket 1950~1952
    789s – 235 engine aftermarket 1950~1952
    890s – 235 engine aftermarket manual choke (number assigned, no production)
    891s – 235 engine aftermarket auto choke (number assigned, no production)
    964s – 216 engine aftermarket manual choke 1937~1952
    965s – 216 engine aftermarket auto choke 1937~1952
    966s – 235 engine aftermarket auto choke 1950~1952
    967s – 235 engine aftermarket manual choke 1950~1952
    2008s – 216 engine aftermarket 1937~1952
    2046s – 206 engine aftermarket 1932~1936
    2100s – 235 engine aftermarket manual choke 1953~1956
    2101s – 235 engine aftermarket auto choke 1953~1956
    2104s – 261 engine aftermarket (number assigned, no production)
    3055s – aftermarket (number assigned, no production)
    3211s – 235 engine aftermarket 1957~1962
    3379s – 153 engine original equipment manual trans 1962~1966
    3402s – 153 engine original equipment auto trans 1962~1966
    3711s – 194 engine aftermarket 1962
    3760s – 230 engine (number assigned, no production)
    3770s – 230 engine (taxi) original equipment auto transmission 1964~1965
    3771s – 230 engine (taxi) original equipment manual trans 1964~1965
    3772s – 194 engine auto transmission (number assigned, no production) 1964
    3773s – 194 engine manual trans (number assigned, no production) 1964
    3821s – 194 engine (van) original equipment 1964
    3946s – 194 engine aftermarket 1964~1965
    3946s – 230 engine aftermarket 1964~1965
    3975s – 230 engine (van) original equipment manual trans 1965
    3976s – 230 engine (van) original equipment auto trans 1965
    4043s – 194 engine (van) original equipment manual trans 1966
    4043s – 230 engine (van) original equipment manual trans 1966
    4044s – 194 engine (van) original equipment auto trans 1966
    4044s – 230 engine (van) original equipment auto trans 1966
    4048s – 230 engine (van) aftermarket experimental 1963~1966
    4072s – 194 engine original equipment auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4072s – 230 engine original equipment auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4073s – 194 engine original equipment manual trans CALIF smog 1966
    4073s – 230 engine original equipment manual trans CALIF smog 1966
    4080s – 194 engine original equipment (pass) auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4080s – 230 engine original equipment (pass) auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4080s – 250 engine original equipment (pass) auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4085s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1966
    4085s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1966
    4086s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4086s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans CALIF smog 1966
    4145s – 194 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans 1965~1966
    4145s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans 1965~1966
    4202s – 250 engine (taxi) original equipment auto trans 1966
    4203s – 250 engine (taxi) original equipment manual trans 1966
    4278s – (export to India)
    4339s – 194 engine aftermarket 1963~1967
    4339s – 230 engine aftermarket 1963~1967
    4339s – 250 engine aftermarket 1963~1967
    4367s – 230 engine original equipment manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4367s – 250 engine original equipment manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4368s – 194 engine original equipment auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4368s – 230 engine original equipment auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4368s – 250 engine original equipment auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4369s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4369s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4370s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4370s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4371s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4371s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4371s – 292 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4372s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4373s – 153 engine aftermarket manual trans 1963~1967
    4374s – 153 engine aftermarket auto trans 1963~1967
    4375s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans 1967
    4375s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans 1967
    4376s – 230 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans 1967
    4376s – 250 engine original equipment (truck) auto trans 1967
    4377s – 250 engine original equipment (taxi) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4378s – 250 engine original equipment (taxi) auto trans CALIF smog 1967
    4387s – 194 engine original equipment (truck) manual trans CALIF smog 1967
    4480s – 230 engine aftermarket (all Federal) 1963~1967
    4480s – 250 engine aftermarket (all Federal) 1963~1967
    4492s – 194 engine aftermarket 1962
    6213s – number assigned no production


    This list taken directly from the Carter files. Note there are a few listed as "number assigned, no production". These were experimental carbs that were never produced. Unless I slipped up (certainly possible) this list is COMPLETE for the YF's for Chevrolet. There are many other YF's for other applications.

    Jon.
     
  10. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,008

    carbking
    Member

    Also, in searching for the Stromberg info (still not found), I did find an article which I posted on the Stovebolt forum as to the selection of the very best carburetor for a stovebolt 6. It may be interesting to some, but I cannot post it here because it was written using Microsoft Word, and this forum considers each time one does a carriage return ("ENTER" for those of you too young to remember typewriters) as an image and will permit a maximum of 20 images per post.

    If anyone is interested, send me an email (NOT a pm) and I will email you the article.

    Jon.
     
  11. visor
    Joined: Aug 11, 2002
    Posts: 513

    visor
    Member
    from Missouri

    Whats better than the Carter YF? TWO Carter YF's.
     
  12. FWIW. I put a Carter 3211S on my 235. The 3211 is a direct bolt on. It started and idled beautifully. It did however lack power compared to the Rochester. I did not try rejetting it for more power. I ended up going back to the Rochester. I am willing to bet if I had kept it and tinkered with it it would have been fine. Todd


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  13. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,854

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I have a couple YFs and one will be going on my 235 this winter,the Rochester is a little on the leaky side.
     
  14. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    I use a Holley 94 on my 261. It's an easy to find carb and Langdons sell an adapter the works well.
    The power increase over the Rochester single was significant.... And the mileage hovers between 18 and 22 mpg. View attachment 2018648


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  15. HUSSEY
    Joined: Feb 16, 2010
    Posts: 628

    HUSSEY
    Member

    Have you checkd out Clifford Performance. I talked with a guy at a show and he said all he did was bolt it up and it ran great out of the box.
     
  16. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 919

    chiro
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Carter YF on my 235 works great and doesn't leak like the Rotten-Chester
     
  17. hoop98
    Joined: Jan 23, 2013
    Posts: 1,362

    hoop98
    Member
    from Texas

    Some Stromberg numbers;

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    HaHa... I thought I was the only one that called them Rotten Chester's.

    I have a box full of 'em. I rebuilt several from early versions to the latest with automatic choke and was never able to get more than 8-10 mpg.

    I have a couple YFs also, but decided not to bother with them after I put the 94 on... The increase in power and economy was a total surprise to me.
    If I ever make a duel intake, I'll make to accept 3 bolt 94/97 carbs.


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  19. And while I am in the group that believes the W-1 mentioned above is superior to the Rochester, the W-1 uses a different mounting "footprint" than the Rochester on the 235, thus it is not a "bolt on".

    Jon.[/QUOTE]


    NO the w1 has 2 sizes bases and they will interchange on the wa1 which is what I used in 1963 on my dual carb set up
    had a carful of those parts wish I still had it
     
  20. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    This is an interesting thread. Just picked up a 62 bel air for a daily driver and was looking at a different carb setup. As far as clifford goes, I remember my dad looking at them a lot for his ford 300 ci 6. They are NOT CHEAP but they do make very nice parts. Bump for a good thread

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  21. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,008

    carbking
    Member


    NO the w1 has 2 sizes bases and they will interchange on the wa1 which is what I used in 1963 on my dual carb set up
    had a carful of those parts wish I still had it[/QUOTE]

    To my knowledge:

    Carter made a W-0 (zero) which is an S.A.E. size 1 flange (mounting center to center of 2 7/16 inches).

    Carter made a W-1 which is an S.A.E. size 2 flange (mounting center to center of 2 11/16 inches).

    Carter made a W-2 which is an S.A.E. size 3 flange (mounting center to center 2 15/16 inches).

    If there is a size 3 W-1, please post the tag number. I would love to be wrong about this, as the W-1 is one of my all-time favorite carburetors.

    The WA-1 was a different series (well, technically, the W-0 is also a different series).

    The W-2 is about as difficult to find as a needle in a Kansas hayfield!

    Jon.
     
  22. I forgot to mention, but some probably would consider just running the fuel line through a spray bottle mister over the open manifold hole, to be a step up from the Rochester.

    Sometime I need to re-inventory the carbs I have and see if there's anything decent for a 235 in there.
     
  23. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,008

    carbking
    Member

  24. Fatkid138
    Joined: Feb 18, 2013
    Posts: 20

    Fatkid138
    Member

    Last year I swapped both my rochesters on a dual carb Offenhauser for two carter yf 965s. It was a direct bolt on, even with one and the original intake. There was a major difference at idle and at take off. It was much easier to find two identical carter yf carbs than single barrel rochesters. I think there are around 140 variations of the rochester carb. Make sure to use the yf for your application. If your putting a carter yf on an aftermarket intake there are two different mounting sizes. One for a 216 and one for 235. I used dual 216 carbs since my dual carb intake was for a 216. I was told this would be fine for street driving but for racing the dual 235 is more ideal. The dual 235 setup is almost too much for a stock 235 engine. I think that was written in how to hop up inline 6's. drawback of carter yf is the accelerator pump diaphragm is not made for ethanol in our gas now. If left to dry the become brittle and crack. I put some new ones in from the carb king and they have lasted over a year even when I didn't start the engine for over 5 months. That was during my world class T5 hybrid transmission swap. Langdone Stovebolt is an awesome company and has helped me out a lot. I highly recommend. Tom Langdone is very knowledgable and helpful.
    The carbs he sells now take a special air cleaner he sells. Its not round at the base where it mounts to the carb. So most air cleaners won't mount to them.
    I can post some pictures tomorrow if you want to see the set up.



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  25. Fatkid138
    Joined: Feb 18, 2013
    Posts: 20

    Fatkid138
    Member

  26. grynder
    Joined: Nov 27, 2009
    Posts: 33

    grynder
    Member

    I have a 3211s on my 1954 235. I replaced a leaking and flooding rochester and never looked back. The car starts and runs great.
     
  27. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,049

    Truckedup
    Member

    I replaced a Rochester with a Holley 1904 and that was an improvement. Then came the Carter YF and that was better than the Holley.Then I adapted a Rochester 2GC,now that was better than any single barrel. I outlined the swap here somewhere in the past.Not a bolt on but genuine hot rodding ...You have to do some creative grinding to oval the carb bore on the intake,make a one inch adapter ,fabricate a throttle linkage.And depending on your engine you may have to enlarge the idle restriction jets. I used a large base Rochester manual choke 2G but a small base carb is ok for a 235.The mid 60 Buick 225 used in Jeeps has a manual choke small base 2G that should work with minimal tuning.
     
  28. thedapperone
    Joined: Aug 4, 2013
    Posts: 17

    thedapperone
    Member

    The weber is a little dull on off idle response. Tune-ability is good though the linkage system leaves much to be desired. I have a box full in the shop I have pulled from various vehicles "mostly British" that did not pass muster. Main issues were warped bases that needed milling and poorly manufactured progressive throttle linkages. They also suffer from a poor vacuum signal at the throttle plate. Depending on your vacuum advance you may not get enough signal from the carb to reach full advance.

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  29. X2 on what you said. I'm currently running a 32/36 Weber on the 235 with headers. I modified the progressive linkage to kick in a little sooner but is still a dog and will be looking into more mods to it and vacuum signal to the dist. Also, fabbing linkage from the bell crank for it was a bitch but that is another story. When I get tired of fooling with this it's getting a dual carb set-up.
     
  30. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,854

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    The YF I have must have came off of a 235 as my dad filed the holes to make it fit a 216,it ran good on the 216 so it should on the 235. Its been sitting for about 10 years so its going to get a kit before it goes on.
     

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