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Technical Is my setup strong enough? Cowl Steering Question

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by c6matt, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,544

    oldsman41
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    Looks pretty but I wouldn’t trust my life with it
     
  2. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,895

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
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    I haven't seen a picture of the whole car yet, so I will ask, does it have wishbones split or otherwise, hair pins or 4 bars? There is no such thing as correct geometry for cowl steering with anything but 4 bars. I am not trying to be an asshole, just want you to have a safe car. People weld up holes in sheet metal every day.......
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  3. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,943

    Blues4U
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    from So Cal

    I was going to post the same thought, if the hole in the cowl is holding you back, patch it.
     
  4. Mom.... Lloyd and Vandy are bitch-fighting again!
     
  5. HotRod33
    Joined: Oct 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,491

    HotRod33
    Member

    Rolling Bones builds a lot of cars with cowl steering and split wishbones....and they get driven... Strengthen your steering box mount... Put a strong pitman arm on it and drive it.... It's your car and as usual guys can't answer a question here on the hamb without trying to tell you what to do...
     
  6. 282doorUK
    Joined: Mar 6, 2015
    Posts: 121

    282doorUK

    Aside from the brass issue, am I the only one to think that the keyway is so badly hand formed by file that the key isn't fully home, which means that there is air between the shaft and arm to the left of the key in this pic?

    Also, is there some porosity in the bolt area, sure looks like it to me.

    Happy to be proved wrong on this.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  7. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 2,307

    nochop
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    from norcal

    And plumbing
     
  8. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,935

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very spindly arm, build a new one
     
    HotRod33 likes this.
  9. I'm kind of amazed the damn arm hasn't broken yet -- bet it wouldn't last long with me at the wheel. Having anything brass or cast brass anyplace in the steering or suspension of a car is about the worst idea I can imagine. You've already acknowledged you're making changes - exactly the right thing to do.
     
    HotRod33, Tman and c6matt like this.
  10. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 6,088

    Marty Strode
    Member

    I would worry more, about breaking one or both of the clamping ears at the top, than the key, however the key slot in the sector shaft looks questionable. You could be just one chuckhole from disaster.
     
  11. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,935

    Tman
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    It sure is purdy, but in reality that is art car stuff. I have no qualms about cowl steering, have built my own. Brass a no no
     
  12. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,304

    spanners
    Member

    Am I correct in assuming that there is no spline on that shaft, just the keyway?
    One question for the metallurgists out there, just for curiosity , not slagging on the O.P.? Is bronze stronger than brass because it's a mixture of alloys?
     
  13. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,108

    pitman

    Number of alloys, treatments. Yes.
     
  14. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,924

    mgtstumpy
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  15. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,216

    flynbrian48
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    I can't get past the "I'm just going to drive it to get ice cream..." part.
     
  16. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,536

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    I've read you're going to redo it..
    Here's something not touched on, That arm may not have given up the ghost Yet, Because you haven't strengthened up the box, That lil bit of movement is stopping the Shear headed for the arm, If that make's sense..
     
  17. But Brian, nothing bad happens going for ice cream! As I know that Brian uses his cars, as I do, I would rather not be wondering if something was going to fail no matter the speed I was driving at….
     
    flynbrian48 likes this.
  18. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,895

    Moriarity
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  19. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,895

    Moriarity
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    video with correct geometry, with a normally mounted steering box

     
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  20. jimvette59
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 888

    jimvette59
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  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,800

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    It is indeed an elegant looking piece.
    But...
    I would make a stronger arm from steel and powder coat or paint it for the brass look. You can repurpose that into a shifter handle, trunk latch, windshield crank, or other non-life-threatening use but still retain it on the car.
     
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  22. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,935

    Tman
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    My late model OT Ranger had that much bumpsteer and it was designed by "engineers"
     
    2OLD2FAST and HotRod33 like this.
  23. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,895

    Moriarity
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    the difference is that 32 fords as designed did not
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  24. Was bump steer only an option on a Ford? If so can I adapt it to a Chevrolet? I'll go see if speedway has a kit, be right back
     
  25. HotRod33
    Joined: Oct 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,491

    HotRod33
    Member

    I'm not sure if you could get bump steer on a Chevrolet but you could order it on a Dodge ...
     
  26. Of COURSE you could get it on a Dodge! Always a Dodge!!
     
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  27. AIGHHHHH ... I said I wouldn't comment on cowl steering but I can't help myself :(

    The two videos posted by Mori show it perfectly. In the first video (Bump Steer) the blue and the black bars travel on different arcs with the two pivot points being far away from each other. In the second video (Minimum Bump Steer) the black and the blue bars travel on the same arc or as close as possible to the same arc, as they both use virtually the same pivot point (getting the pitman arm pivot point as close to the rear split bones mount) with the bars being roughly the same length.

    The easiest way to completely eliminate bump steer when running split bones and a parallel drag link is to .... solid mount your front axle to your frame :D:rolleyes:

    The next best thing is to severely minimize suspension travel o_O

    The size of the arc (as determined by the length of the bars) and the amount of conflict (as determined by the amount of suspension travel) will determine how much bump steer a car is saddled with.

    Have I ever built one with cowl steering? No ... for exactly the reasons posted above.
     
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  28. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,935

    Tman
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    Except if your split wishbone hotrod was articulating THAT MUCH it wouldn't be a hot rod, it would be a Jeep. The video simply exaggerates things to try and illustrate the differences.
     
    Xman likes this.
  29. I am in total agreement with you. I stated 'severely limit your suspension travel'. Too much travel with a "flawed design" (my words) will cause unacceptable amounts of bump steer. The root of the problem being the decision to use a 'flawed design' in the first place.

    Split bones on a forged axle and your axle becomes a sway bar. Split bones on a solid axle rear end where the solid axle doesn't flex and you've just designed a flawed rear suspension. I get that people do this all the time and I get that very few have problems but that doesn't mean it is not a flawed design (sorry, just another example of a commonly used design that is flawed from the get go). I broke welds on ladder bars (on a street driven car) for the very reason listed above ... it was and is a bad design.

    Sigh ... I knew I should have just kept quiet :rolleyes::D
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
    joel and Moriarity like this.
  30. Could be worse, it could have an ifs.
     
    joel, VANDENPLAS, Moriarity and 2 others like this.

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