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Technical Is my new crate motor done? Metal Flakes!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scoggman, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. walker
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 213

    walker
    Member

    They have already told you, change the oil and run it. Rotella T is a diesel oil, these engines dont need it. Use a good quality gasoline engine oil, just like they do at the manufacturer.
     
  2. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 5,472

    anthony myrick
    Member

    what does it sound like when running? I have seen new flat tappet motors crash cams even with the additive. I have seen similar amounts of metal in other fresh motors that lived forever. Any way, if it sounds good, has good oil pressure hammer down and enjoy
    On a side note...I found bunches of cockroaches in a crate 502 once
     
  3. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,138

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    new filter new oil take it for a drive, then drop it and have a look, oils cheap enough.
     
  4. Rattle Trap
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 358

    Rattle Trap
    Member

    I have had new engines do that. Change the oil a few times after some run time. I tore one of them down years later and it was perfect.
     
  5. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    No, I absolutely agree with the Rotella T and put in some more zinc additive, like Lucas. That flat tappet cam needs all the help it can get and Rotella still has "some" zinc" in it, plus the additive will be even more insurance.

    DO NOT run any kerosene through it, just change the oil and filter. Also, call Summit and tell them what the dealer did and said so it is on record.

    I feel this motor is ok, just initial trash that has to be flushed through it.

    Don
     
    christopher 78 and tommyd like this.
  6. 48FordFanatic
    Joined: Feb 26, 2011
    Posts: 1,336

    48FordFanatic
    Member
    from Maine

    I had a similar concern with the Goodwrench 350 in my 48. I bought it through a GM dealer and they told me not to worry about it, to change the oil and filter and just run it.That was about 20,000 miles ago...no problems .
     
  7. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 11,385

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    I have lost a couple of cams [BBC solid lift] during break-in. The shavings were much finer than the ones in your pan. I would do what others have said and change the oil and filter and run it. I have a filter cutter and the stuff you find in the element after a new engine is run will scare you. I wouldn't lose any sleep over this until you drain it a second time. I like Don's idea on the Rotella. It wont hurt anything and many racers use it during break-in.
     
  8. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    have to tell you that is normal , we had a HO 454 do the same thing , they run the engine s in but not under power they drag them along with a electric motor to make sure it has oil pressure and compression thats it ( not like your daily driver where they actually run it for 5-10 minutes ( to do a electric system/sensor check ) then drain the oil and drop the filter and ship it to the assy factory . that fine of material the filter will catch, remember this is a stock assembly line built replacement , NOT a one off built high output clean room built race engine were we wash the parts like its going to surgury . and not just Gm is like this I have had $12,000-$15,000 Caterpiller diesels look like this after a break in drain .this why they tell you to run them a short time ( 10 hours or 500 miles) then change the oil out like the old day motors , one to remove all the fines and 2 to remove any assy lubes that may clog the filter up..
     
  9. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    if it worrys you yes warm it up and pour some cheap thin ( 5 weight ) oil thru the filler after you get most of the old oil drained a gallon should do , and for more headache prevention get a oil filter magnet or put a neomagnet on the bottom of the pan near the drain plug . just pull that magnet before removing the plug and any metal should come out .
     
  10. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,669

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Question
    Who did you purchase the engine from?

    I thought I read somewhere that you mentioned Summit.
    If it did come from Summit don't they have a two year replacement deal on the engine?

    I have seen stuff in pans before but the photo's you showed looked like there was a lot filings in the pan and that's when things can get a little hairy fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jimbo
     
  11. Maybe I missed it, Did you talk to summit? What did they say?
     
  12. oldsrocket
    Joined: Oct 31, 2004
    Posts: 2,146

    oldsrocket
    Member

    When you are driving the car, be gentle with it for a couple hundred miles. Don't go out and try to do burnt outs right off the bat. Your engine will go south if you do that. They recommend about 250mi+ of babied driving plus another oil and filter change before really giving it hell.

    I use Lucas break in additive and I still add a little to my oil at regular oil changes after break-in.

    As for the Comp Cams comment on the last page... I call B.S. Nearly all large production cam companies these days use the same CWC camshaft billets sold to them by a third-party manufacturer. The same manufacturer that supplies the stock production industry. So, as far as materials composition go they are the same as any other camshaft. The only thing different would be the grind profiles, which aren't exactly ground breaking in most cases.
     
  13. scoggman
    Joined: Feb 25, 2009
    Posts: 471

    scoggman
    Member

    Thanks guys!!! Yeah I called Summit two days ago, their guy said that it was a GM issue. I went to the GM dealer, they said it was a Summit issue. I called Summit again this morning and the guy said it was a Summit issue, but the shavings were normal and to change the oil and run it. So I guess I am going to pour a couple of quarts of oil straight through it, fill it up with an additive and let her run. If it eats itself, I will go from there.
     
  14. autobodyed
    Joined: Mar 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,945

    autobodyed
    Member
    from shelton ct

    don't sweat it, I have the same motor in my international pickup, had the same issue with break in. dumped the oil, changed the filter, drove it 500 miles, very, very few shavings, changed the oil and filter again and been driving it hard for around 5 years without an issue. change the oil every spring and mid summer. crystal clear on the dip stick no metal in the drain pan. running Castrol 20-50 in it and 93 octane, runs like a top.
     
  15. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Your GM dealer is just pissed because you didn't buy the engine from them, but it is still a GM crate motor and a dealer has to service it IMO. I bet a call to the GM hot line would kick them in the butt a little. No different than if you bought a Chevy car from a dealer in Ohio and then needed service in New York, the dealer there would have to do the work and be paid what GM allows.

    My understanding is, that a Goodwrench engine has a 3 year warranty IF it is installed in an original car or truck that used that motor, but if you put it in something else the warranty is only one year. But I might stand corrected on that.

    Don
     
  16. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    as for rotella and zinc you have to buy the older motor rotella ( CI rated ) for the zinc as the new stuff ( C-j) is low zinc due to DPF filters . you mainly use diesel oil for low ash when it does get past the rings and burns ... so it don't coke up the rings and create excessive carbon . you should buy a zddp additive in a bottle and to the oil .
     
  17. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    yes they do use cmc cam blanks but as we found out when we took it to a met lab , inconsistant heat treat ( soft spots like like they left no room around the cam when they put it in the basket ) treatment also not as hard or thick as other several other cam manufacturers , plus there machining is something that needs to be looked into , looks like they finish grind journals with a 36 grit stone on a good day .. .
     
  18. That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about the Comp 268H I just installed. Haven't started it yet. Fingers crossed.
     
  19. scoggman
    Joined: Feb 25, 2009
    Posts: 471

    scoggman
    Member

    So if not the rotella t, then what oil would you recommend for the 200 to 500 mile break in? I went by Advanced and picked up some Lucas Break in additive, just not sure which oil to mix it with.

    If you guys don't know about it, check out retailmenot.com they usually have a promo code for 30% off at Advanced Auto Parts. Got the $16 break in oil for $11. You order it on line, and pick it up in the store in about 30 min.
     
  20. Some people would recommend older Rotella, based on the Zinc etc.
    No idea which was the good stuff, or what you have.
     
  21. scoggman
    Joined: Feb 25, 2009
    Posts: 471

    scoggman
    Member

    I bought the Rotella T from tractor supply, (15w40) is this not the right stuff?
     
  22. johnybsic
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 612

    johnybsic
    Member
    from las vegas

    Yup thats the right stuff! Thumbs up
     
  23. johnybsic
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 612

    johnybsic
    Member
    from las vegas

    I'll warn you, oil topics will make the earth rumble beneath your feet and you'll feel the winds of rapture. They're right however, Rotella T, new filter, additive, run it.
    CJ4 oil is still plenty healthy enough for a stock hydraulic flat tappet. Plenty healthy. Never use off the shelf car oil. if it says SN or SM or Energy conserving, throw it far away from your hotrod.
    Your doing the right thing, breathe easy man.
    Good luck.
     
  24. walker
    Joined: Dec 29, 2008
    Posts: 213

    walker
    Member

    Break in additive is for cam break in, after 15 minutes or so your cam is broke in, and you dont need it anymore. I have hundreds of thousands of miles on rebuilds using gasoline engine dinosaur juice. No flat cams, no worn out parts. I have run non insert heads on unleaded gas as well without anymore issue than normal wear.
    Lubrication engineers are pretty smart fellers and specify things for a reason, and backyard mechanics have always thought they knew more than the engineers.
    Use whatever oil you want, but educate yourself on it. Plenty of free reading on the topic on the web.
     
  25. Our 55 is alive!!
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 47

    Our 55 is alive!!
    Member

    I'm would change the oil and filter and go. If that is what the 2nd dealer said to do then do it. Sounds like they have your back. Do not run anything through it, that will kill the warranty. Good luck.
     
  26. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,285

    73RR
    Member

    Put a couple of big magnets on the bottom of the sump. They will at least hold onto the iron so it won't circulate and eat other parts.
    If you take the pan off, be sure to put a magnet in the sump. If GM does not have magnet in their catalogue use Mopar #3681601.
     
  27. Cerberus
    Joined: May 24, 2010
    Posts: 1,381

    Cerberus
    Member

    I will soon be breaking in a 390 engine I just rebuilt. New cam, pistons, bored .030 over, balanced rotating assembly, timing sprockets & chain, etc. I suspect there will be initial metal wear during the first few minutes of breaking in. I will install a magnetic drain plug to collect any metal shavings/grindings from the timing chain/sprockets, cam shaft, lifters, etc. The cam bearing shells are made of ferrous metal. However the material that gets worn off is non ferrous metal and won't stick to a magnet. ZDDP will help a flat tappet cam from excessive wear during break in. Also, by the time metal grindings start collecting to the magnet some damage may already have occurred. Having the sump magnet does give some peace of mind but may offer a false sense of security.
     
  28. Merlin
    Joined: Apr 9, 2005
    Posts: 2,546

    Merlin
    Member
    from Inman, SC

    NO just change the oil install a magnetic drain plug and go on. I've used several GM crate engines with the latest one in my 3 window and I can tell you that what your seeing is normal. I do the same thing Don does start up and run for about 30 minutes then change the oil, Put about 500 miles on it and change it again then go to your regular oil change schedule.
     
  29. Yep you're right I misunderstood.
     
  30. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,285

    73RR
    Member

    'Usually', stuff floating around in the oil is non-ferrous...but the OP indicated he had plenty to find and thus the suggestion for magnets. We use them in every new engine and will put one in any trans pan that comes off. It is better to trap anything that is not oil before it causes damage. Magnetic drain plugs work well, I just like a bigger/stronger one that can collect as much as possible. I also use the smallest micron filter that is reasonable for a fresh engine just in case floaters get past the oil pump.
    If magnets make you feel warm and secure like a new blankie then.....
     

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