Technical Is it still OK to paint a car with Acrylic Enamel?

Like I said all has to do with the APPLICATOR . Your 2 stage and single stage Urethane shoots just like Delstar, DuLux, Super Max . You have to wait for 1st. Coat to tack and then you can pour it on. Watch your overlap and watch it burn in and flow out. A SLICK PAINT JOB IS A CONTROLED RUN.

 

It's someplace between too dry and a run - a razor edge from a run

 

Do not mean to ruffle feathers here but, I have been at this along long time so I have painted with most every type of materials . For the last 30 years it has been single stage urethane and base clear. It is not the product that makes the finish. It is the Gun , the man behind the gun and the environment that he is working in and the prep he puts into it. My paint jobs are always straight, smooth and shiney ! There will always be minor inperfections that on a daily driver would be acceptable. But I color sand and buff every car to glass smoth perfection! Why? Because my customer base Demands it!! If your painting this for you, then what your happy with is all that matters. Larry

 

One Bad 51Merc. EXACTLLY

 

Bob, I know the look you're objecting to. It's that "cellulite" look, mainly from a distance. Any finish will display that based on how well the substrates are leveled, or how poorly. I'd bet a SBC valve cover that the ones you've seen it the most on were BC/CC jobs, and the finisher didn't take his time on the sealer (excess peel) piled on the color (more peel on the peeled sealer), then pounded the clear to it. Leveling the clear does nothing for the "thaneulite" except enhance it from a distance. Anyone who thinks you can put out an AMBR/Ridler winner without surfacing and polishing, just because "...know how to paint..."? Prove it. I call 100% bullshit. And I'll stand by my documentation regarding the "perfection" found in cars I specialize in when they were new. Hey, maybe those old fucks could really work a spray gun! Ya think? Yeah, those pictures of guys with polishers and sanding blocks were promos...

 

Thanks Highlander, I think we are getting closer to what looks so bad. I guess you can get a car sanded dead on glass smooth and chuck that work with a poor sealer coat. Paint is only there to show you how bad that sealer coat was and that peel it there forever, right? Bob

 

Love Centari. It holds up and applies easily. I usually end up cutting/buffing. Primarily because my conditions aren't optimal(enclosed carport) and bugs love the shit, LOL.

 

I used some rebar tie wire when I ran out of tig rod on some sheet metal repair and it's still holding up fine

 

Some people look but they don't see that cellulite. They will tell you the paint is flat and polished, then look at the same square inch that you are and not see it. A welders eye can watch a puddle and the casual observer says there is nothing there.

If you can see the flutter or cellulite, which is it actually a thickness variation under or of the clear - it
likely bothers you. If you can't see it, y'all think we're nuts. Maybe it's better to not be able too see it.

Try this experiment and understand that the adhesion issue won't be an issue. Take a test piece of steel and prep i, block it prime it paint it your favorite color, clear it and cut and buff to your level of perfection.
Take a piece of hardware store glass clean it well and paint it with your favorite color. Flip the glass over and compare it to the other panel. Can you see the difference?

 

I know what buffing is but what is "cutting?" Abrasive compound?

 

Wet sanding.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

EXACTLY how it was explained to me... words to live and strive for!!!!

 

It's not quite that simple but close. There's a dozen or more ways to take well surfaced near perfect panels and essentially waste a good portion of that effort. When a finish gets piled on, excess mil thickness, that loss is off to a good start. Adding to what our pal 31vic said, the difference in glass vs "plastic", a well surfaced finish gets you closer to the level of good glass. A heavy finish looks like plexi or acrylic. Up close those finishes that show the distortion look great. There's the finisher looking at the gloss, but how sharp is that reflection from 30, 50,maybe 100 feet away? Letting the cat just stick his head out of the bag, no, you don't have to surface every layer. What you have to do is confront the heavy film build that urethane creates by it's nature. I suffer my own affinity for low film build, reduced mil thickness, in that I'll burn through an edge now and then and have to spot blend it in. I hate that "picture frame" that heavy materials create right on the edge of a door or hood panel. Yeah, that's where the big "controlled run", the elephant in this room, tends to stop and leave that neon light that says "amateur". I don't mean that to apply to you singular job guys who did your own and have multi-faceted pride in your work, that's to the guys who live this shit and make the same errors all the time. 31vic is also right about welding, "...can't see...", same/same.
I'll quit this one, but in the end there's good and bad in whatever you choose. a 1/2 dozen guys will shout about the superiority of alkyd enamel, another 1/2 dozen will crow at dawn about the invincible nature of acrylic enamel, a dozen will close their ears and yell "LA-LA-LA-LA" to all of it because lacquer is king, but at the end of the day you have a pretty huge industry that seems as though it's working against you with changes in formulation, eliminating product lines, developing the "new and improved", and more. 45 years in this shit gives a lot of answers, solutions, choices, et al. And at end of all that thinking and plotting you have new equipment that can take your best choice and hobble your efforts. Is it the no-win scenario? It might feel like it sometimes but it's not. I've said it before, I'll offer anything I can to help anyone in here roll their own.

 

I both love, and hate paint controversy.

 

I don't know if it's ok to paint acrylic enamel or not. I just bought and sprayed this paint on an OT beater car.
It sprayed nice, looks ok. Not show car nice, but used car nice.
Only $99.95 for enough red paint to paint the car! I am not the seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Gal-Kit-V...uto-Paint-FREE-SHIPPING-/131867130037?vxp=mtr

 

I agree, and why does it always get controversial?

When I finally paint my fifties Ford F-100, I'd like it to look like it came from the factory with that paint. But, in shopping around, I've not talked to one painter that wants to paint it that way.
It turns into, "well, I'll use bc/cc and leave some orange peel in it". Or, "enamel will chip" or any other number of excuses why they don't want to paint it like the factory did it.

Are we just too into over processed paint jobs? What is so difficult about just spraying acrylic enamel like they did in 1957?

 

crminal, that's not it, not really. As a pro finisher you never want to deny any job you did. You want to throw your shoulders back, chin up, "...that's mine..." because finishing is an ego driven craft. It has to be unless you grind out 10 cars a day in a high production shop. Even then the ego has to be color or finish match. At our level it almost makes no sense to slop on a finish after all the hours of fabrication, modifications, getting the perfect stance, top drawer interior fabrics, but the finish? "Fuck me that's an insane price to paint my...". Let's spend $6500 on a hopped up flatty with uber-rare speed parts, drop another $4000 on a Winters or Halibrand quicky, maybe another $2000 on the hidden 5 speed. "But I want the paint to look like shit." Seriously? I've seen gauge sets sell for more than many guy's paint budget. I recently swapped a roof onto a 62 Impala. It also included painting it, but that was the challenge. Paint it as if it was done at least pre-70. Well I had to, my guy shot it in BC/CC with the rest of the car having (can't believe I'm using this word) "patina". That roof has it too. We played around with something and achived what he, I and my best bud owner of the car thought looked like the real deal.
To everyone, with respect to my colleague 'chopolds', the challenge (not controversy) is more along the lines of the will someone's ready to put forth, the will to hit the mark as high, or indeed as low, as you want it. We have our secrets and techniques, our years behind us, and that industry I spoke of above. Anything can be done if you know what you're looking for.

 

Highlander, I truly get what you're biz is and the level at which you perform. You are an artist.

But, in 1957 when a guy bought a new Ford, I'm sure he didn't feel like the paint was slopped on.

I say that it would be a challenge in this day and age to have a painter do a 50's enamel paint job and be able to "hold back" and not over process it.

 

As a professional painter ,There is nothing I can do now about my customers expectations except fulfill them. So smooth and shiny it is. But back in 1971 when I painted my 1st car at the age of 16, all it had to do was look good under boulevard lights and going down Union Grove Drag strip ! And the only polishing I did was with a can of Turtle wax and a old T shirt! Acrylic enamel and lacquer where kings and life was great! Larry

To the37kid I still use Acrylic enamel from time to time when I am doing fifties and older restoration's because it gives it "the look" but mine are still smoother than they where back then. It is still a great paint . Larry

 

But I think that's Highlanders point, a pro doesn't want a paint job going out that looks like it was done to 1957 standards because everyone is going to see it and say well that guy sure can't paint. Even if you tell anyone who asked that it was what you wanted no one will believe that story and just think the painter is not good at his job because that is what everyone has come to expect out of a "custom paint job". The only time one might get away with those types of requests is when doing an on point restoration where overdone paint work is not acceptable.

 

I do know the look you are after. That "sprayed on by human hand, and baked enamel"
I am not a painter. I am backyarder. I cannot get that look on an entire car without a booth and not painting every day for experience. I'm not good enough.

I refuse to paint for other people because I am not a pro, and I have no idea if it would come out good enough for them or my pride.

but, I did achieve that look on a pair of gloss black running boards for a LWB 51 chev pickup. My long term friend had me do some body straightening on the bed, but I refused his contant begging for me to paint the truck. He is wealthy so he took it to another friend who runs the highest-end pro body/paint shop that only does collector cars. He gave me some BS about not wanting to bring the loose boards there, and I did reluctantly agree to paint them. Best black paint I ever sprayed for some reason, and they look exactly like the old baked enamel jobs.

The truck itself looks great, but my boards I did, look better to me. Hard to describe that "still wet enamel look, but looking like baked gloss porcelain".

Overdone everything on so called traditional cars, just does not cut it for me. They just don't give me the same feel.

 

Yesterday I get a call from my buddy to paint his dump truck. Wants a low budget paint job on the new e coated hood and fender.
I say it's not going to match, how about we freshen the whole truck.

He says I just want the new parts the same color, make the new parts match the existing truck and make it cheap. It won't be 30 mins old before some idiot bounces a 2x4 off of it.

So I'm going to unbolt the new panels and paint them. No masking, no blending, easy for him to pay that. It's gonna look like shit with shiny new parts on the worn truck. There won't be anyone happy in the end but it's a working dump truck so how can a nice job, quality work and relative cost be justified?

He will probably look at the new painted parts and see that as a partial improvement, I'll look at those same new parts and see how bad or how far from the mark that the rest of The truck is.

Oh yeah, he wants back Monday morning

 

My associate and I played around with flattening agent in the clear for that 62 Impala. After it was 1st coated we let that flash off and carefully applied 2 even coats, added an extra measure of solvent for smaller peel, then we let time and chemistry do their thing. It took a week but the final outcome was a lower level of gloss, something so close to an OEM finish and couldn't be happier with it. I've mentioned this before too, that if I were to refinish a car to the standard I witnessed on a 57 Belvedere with no miles on in the Chrysler museum warehouse, well I'd get laughed out of the business. Don't think I'm saying everything has to be GNRS quality, but if you're going to do it anyway then why not get the durability and speed afforded by new materials? There's ways to make it look original whether that finish is glass smooth (a new Model A Ford) or slightly muted (pretty much any 50s-60s new car). Our memory is inhibited by what we see now and have seen for the last 20+ years. When that big Goodyear sign counting cars built in Detroit would top 8 figures by year's end those things were certainly NOT perfect. It used to take 2-3 minutes to paint a car back then, and that was human labor doing it. If I could paint a whole car in twice that time I'd be worth millions, assuming I'd live to enjoy it...(!)

 

That's when you do it yourself....

works for me.

 

new materials...faster...

Like I said, I am totally backyarder.

I grew up with nitrostan as the only available scratch filler. I hated the shrinking. Then the 3M acrylic filler came in. I loved it because I could walk around the car a dozen times with the tube and rubber squeegee and not be stressed out, and I'd eventually see every last speck.

So a half dozen years ago, I go to get some at the auto paint store and get told "we don't stock that anymore, use that 2 part stuff". A bodyman was standing there and told me "you don't want that old 3M, you need this 2 part". Who the hell is he, to tell me what I want?

I hate that stuff. Mix some and then RUN around hoping it won't hit before I can see all the specks with my poor lighting and eyesight. I don't want to be rushed., It is a hobby for me, not some marathon.
.

 

We think alike. I've been practicing with my turbine hvlp, got my SPI epoxy primer and will do the best job I can. Then I'll work on the finish. I always hope that these threads stay simple and since it is about acrylic enamel, I'd like to get tips and pointers about its use and application.

I'm getting the sense that 50's factory enamel jobs were pretty poor by todays standards. The 19 year old original paint on my '56 T-bird looked good to me when I got it in 1975.

 

I don't know that they were that poor, but they were different. For some unknown reason. I just can't get into the modern perfect paint job thing.

 

Painted many Airplanes, Cars, Boats and about everything else over many years with many gallons of every kind of paint from lacquer to urethanes. My favorite is always acrylic enamel with the exception of aircraft which I prefer urethanes for those. Never shot and never will use water based .Doesn't make sense to me to protect something thinned with water from a water exposed environment.

 

I think it has to do with a couple of things. As mentioned, first paint job, the less bumps the better. I used Limco BASF Synthetic Enamel on the 32 that is in my avatar. Prep and conditions are key. I did shoot the car outside. Color Sanded well, and followed the directions and was pleased with the outcome.

Now a few years later, I am doing a 32 Roadster and am shooting Myan Gold Metallic. I shot the frame and was un happy with the single stage. So I have switched over to Base Coat Clear Coat on this one. I think solid colors are fine as enamel, but I am not sure about certain metallic colors. The gold seemed less opaque than the black when it layed down, looking like it was going to take a zillion passes to color up.

2 cents

 

Here ya go - a magazine article about "Factory Correct Orange Peel"
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...spray-paint-with-factory-correct-orange-peel/