Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods Iron Duke owners, will it work.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Koz, May 13, 2019.

  1. Sorry, I skipped over the manual trans part. Then you definitely don't want an 80's anything GM 4 cylinder.
     
  2. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    The one motor I was looking at was advertised on Craigslist so I asked the seller if he had a pic of the 'bell are to see if it was the Chevy one or the FWD configuration. He has no idea.
    There's a load of these out there. Just finding the right one is the trick. The winner seems to be the Penta from a marine application. I can't believe the following these little motors have! Just about anything from full roller cams to exotic heads are available. I'm actually excited about getting my hands on one. I can't believe the most desirable heads are off Hyster fork lift trucks. What!
     
  3. It's probably a 150 AMC. Guess that's an Iron Duke now too.
     
    Koz likes this.
  4. charlesf
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 134

    charlesf
    Member

    My gas tank came from an old Case combine.
     
    King ford likes this.
  5. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,051

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :D This looks interesting.I`ll saddle up and go along for the ride.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
    Koz likes this.
  6. mkubacak
    Joined: Jun 20, 2005
    Posts: 73

    mkubacak
    Member

  7. David Chandler
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,055

    David Chandler
    Member

    Just a note of caution. I had a 151 in an 85 S10, that I bought new. I had to replace two connecting rods once, at about 90K miles. The engine started knocking. Later after a full rebuild again it started knocking at about 170K miles. When rebuilt, the only non stock part was a Fierro high volume oil pump. Obviously it didn't help. And I hate to say it but I babied that thing 99.9% of the time too. Now an S10 is heavier than your roadster. So it would strain it more. But if you get on it regularly, it might be a problem. Other than that the transmission had to be rebuilt 3! times. God awful four speed OD. But you are talking about a manual, which makes that a moot point.
    Other than that, it ran quite well, and had reasonable power for what it was. The transmission was forever in and out of lock up mode and shifted back and forth between 4th and 3rd, on small hills. (with 3.78 gears in the rear end.)
    Also when rebuilding, the factory roller cam had "cracks" in a couple of lobes, at maximum lift. Poor quality, probably is the reason for that. The replacement looked fine. It might bear checking if you pick one up.
    One other issue was the oil pump drive shaft broke once, on the stock pump. It sheared right where it the gear was pinned to the shaft. I don't know how you get around that one.
    Good luck though. I think in a light enough vehicle, it would do far better. At one point I saw adapters for a turbo 350. Looking back I wish I'd swapped it.
     
  8. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 5,506

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Koz, cool project...
     
    Koz likes this.
  9. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    Now this post worries me! My biggest worry is eating bearings 200 miles from home. I'm not worried about the cam as I'll use an aftermarket one anyway. The thing that will help me is I'm looking for a 181 marine. This somewhat larger engine will have a bit more torque than the 151-3 which will put it under less stress. I feel for you with that truck....
     
  10. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,262

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Forgive me if I missed something though. I was thinking about this thread on my drive home yesterday and I gotta ask and make an observation here.

    This seems like a good bit of effort to not just put a decent flathead in there.

    Why don't you just run a flathead and build the next one around an Iron Duke with a matching OD transmission?
     
    Koz likes this.
  11. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 275

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I like the valve cover; how about providing more details? The stock cover is wavy along each side, with hold-down bolts through the flanges. I'd think if you made or adapted a flat-sided cover, it would have to be fatter, and therefore would cover up the head's valve cover bolt holes. Looks like your cover is held on by two top-mounted bolts. Is there an "adapter" plate between the head and cover, to get the proper gasket geometry? What does the internal provision for the two cover hold-down bolts look like?
     
  12. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    The car is actually set up for a flathead. You will see the radiator, (which I had built to cool the flatty), has the outlets for a 59AB which was in there until a few weeks ago. I'm learning more about the 151-3 motors and I'm not so sure this is the way to go. I think the car would look best with the flatty but unfortunately it is also the most expensive and least reliable powerplant. I want to make one shore run with this car and I was hoping I wouldn't need a 7 grand motor to do it. If I go that route, it bumps the car into next year for the Fall run and it's tough to sit on my hands that long. Everything else, rear trans suspension and brakes is all newly rebuilt stuff so it should be somewhat reliable. I have scored, just this week, a near perfect set of Kelsy-Hayes bent spoke wires. After a blast and epoxy finish, new Firestones and tubes so another item off the list. Talk about perfect with the flatty or the banger. Not so much with the Chevy. The purpose of this thread was to get a feeler for the banger to see it might work. Not so convinced anymore.
     
  13. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,262

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Ok, I gocha, well, you certainly wouldn't be the first guy with an OHC banger driven modified or bucket. One of the first cars I looked at had a Pinto banger in it (and I wish I bought it to this day). If you had a banger on hand that would mate up to the SBC adapter for the ford box you'd be good to go. But you might have just as much luck finding a running flathead to just drop in and go from the sounds of it. I can relate to the itch to get on the road.
     
  14. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    The guy with the Craigslist banger hasn't gotten back to me so he either figured out that the motor he has won't work with my Chevy adapter or he sold it. I'm picking up a technically usable 283 from a friend of mine that would work even better in my vintage rail so I'm not too worried there. Flattys are starting to be pretty common around here on the sale lists so I could get one reasonably easy. Some guys on here messaged me about reliability problems with the banger so if I would use one it would need to be a Penta 181 inch motor. That's in the neighborhood of five grand with the parts to use it in a road vehicle, (they were mostly used in marine applications). The flatty I had in was nice but I ditched it through the advice of some friends and now I'm sorry I did.
     
    patmanta likes this.
  15. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 275

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I picked up an S10 motor a while back, for a future project (light rod, or maybe even a "vintage" midget race car). My thoughts:

    Love the looks and potential performance advantage of the cross-flow head. The Chevy ll and very early Iron Dukes are not cross-flow. The cross-flows are also an 8-port head. (Well, close enough; I think the dividing wall between adjacent intake ports stops just short of the head side, although it can be extended if you need to wring out an extra couple of horses.)

    For carburetion I'd use 2 Weber sidedrafts. If you're a stickler on tradition, bear in mind the twin choke Webers have been around since the thirties, and since about 1950 in their present style. (I'll sell you a pair of "sand cast" Webers for $5,000, if you insist on the real period correct look!) Granted, Webers are associated more with sports cars than rods, so alternative side-drafts would be two Carter YH's (early Corvette 6), or two Linkerts (early Harley aftermarket), which I believe were bronze, would look cool polished up, with plumbing and various other engine hardware also polished bronze.

    The valve cover conversion in Charlesf's post is perfect. Alternatively, you could fabricate one of aluminum plate, grind down the corners to a radius, and lightly sand blast so it looks like a casting. You could mill a name on the top, like Frontenac, but I personally have a little trouble faking things. Don't know, but I suspect a repopped oldie valve cover would need major surgery to fit, unless designed specifically for Iron Duke application (see my previous post above for the issues involved).

    By the way, I'm not sure, but I think larger, marine engines generally had 8 port heads, and were all non-crossflow.

    The Iron Duke engines in the real Fiero Indy pace cars were enlarged a bit (160 cid?), and modified to 232 HP for adequate pacing speed.
     
  16. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,262

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I bet you are sorry, yeah :(

    But I think the fates are telling you to drop that 283 in there now.
     
  17. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    My very thoughts as we speak. If the car works for me I can swap it out next year for a hot flatty. If I follow my usual I'll sell the car in a few years and the Chevy will have about a 100 thou on it....LOL. I have been building a Sam-o-Ram for it..... 002.JPG 007.JPG 008.JPG
     
    patmanta and Hank37 like this.
  18. speedbump
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 90

    speedbump
    Member

     
  19. speedbump
    Joined: Mar 3, 2008
    Posts: 90

    speedbump
    Member

    Koz, hi my name is mike and I have the perfect mtr. for you. its a pint. (iron duke) 4 cly. Pontiac super duty. has the early bolt pattern for any chevy. trans. pg turbo 350-400 4 speeds etc. look at the photos I send you. you can contact me through conversation on this site.
     
  20. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 275

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Just saw a new ad in Facebook for two 3.0 liter Mercruisers (aka Iron Dukes) for $400 (sounds negotiable), need gaskets/seals (at least!), in Rhode Island. Know nothing else, just passing the word.
     
    Koz likes this.
  21. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 275

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Forgot to say earlier -- at some point in the 80s, a balance shaft was added to the Iron Duke. Big 4 cylinder engines are inherently vibrators, so the later engines may be worth considering. Have no idea if the bigger marine engines ever incorporated such.
     
  22. 1932tub
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 357

    1932tub
    Member

    Mercruisers are not Iron Dukes, seems to be some confusion in this thread.
     
    tractorguy likes this.
  23. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,962

    bct
    Member

    thank you. one is Pontiac based and the other chev. an iron duke has saw tooth valve cover.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Duke_engine
    same confusion on every thread.
     
  24. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    For the general concept here, I wasn't real concerned about the origin of the engine, just the most workable "banger" for the project. I wanted to hear from guys who had some experience with how well they worked on the street. Most guys who actually have one seem to like them. On the down side they seem to be prone to losing mains, have some vibration problems, and are real anemic.

    I can have the 151" from the 1980 Jeep which has the correct bolt pattern on the "bell". Not sure what the lineage this motor is, (AMC), but it looks pretty decent. With a decent cam and dual carbs it should push in the 100 horse range. Pretty sad really, even in a light car. To get any more I'd need to go to a 181" motor, (Penta, Volvo Marine). On the plus side it would be easy on the trans and should cool easily. I could use the existing head and have the hardened seats, not too much of a big deal. I'm leaning toward throwing the 283 in this year and over the winter build a decent 59AB for next year. Knowing me, once the Chevy is in it will never come out.
     
  25. wisdonm
    Joined: Jun 20, 2011
    Posts: 421

    wisdonm
    Member

    The iron dukes in Fieros had powdered metal rods. Those engines experienced a 40 per cent rod failure rate. GM thought it was acceptable. The optional V6 had no such problem. I'd use an after market rod in the duke, if it was mine.
     
  26. buffaloracer
    Joined: Aug 22, 2004
    Posts: 752

    buffaloracer
    Member
    from kansas

    The jeep engine is the Pontiac iron duke engine. Will make the hundred horse mark as it is. Decent cam, exhaust, carburetion it will be in the 180 range. With the SD parts you were told about earlier, you are talking twice that. Palmer and Morgan both ran that engine very successfully. A torque plate is necessary if you intend to bore and would be very helpful if you just intend to hone.
    Pete
     
    Koz, Mark Yac and OFT like this.
  27. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 1,203

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    There is a 2.5L & a3.0L 4 used by penta , mercruiser and omc , they are both based on the 153 cu .in (2.5L) Chevy all that was introduced in 1962 . They have the Chevy bell housing pattern and the crank are Chevy flywheel bolt pattern. They are also used in industrial equipment ( forklifts , man lifts , water/ irrigation pumps . there are a lot of other 4 cylinders and it seems also a lot of disinformation out there , the internet ( if you haven't figured it out yet ) is horribly unreliable.
     
    Mark Yac likes this.
  28. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    Now that is good advice. I have a week to sleep on this but I'm going to purchase the Jeep engine and if I elect to not use it it's not a lot of money lost.
     
  29. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 1,862

    upspirate
    Member

    Here is the engine from this one Scan0003.jpg Scan0004.jpg Scan0005.jpg
     
  30. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,151

    Koz
    Member

    There was a black '28 roadster with Cali plates running around here 30 years ago. It used all the tricks and looked the part. I remember the owner telling me he was running a cam meant for a midget in it and the sound was off the chart. It had a 3" straight pipe along the drivers side all the way back. Never forget that car. It was so perfect way before any of the TROG/Banger stuff that is so popular now. I really like the yellow car upspirate! It has the sporit of the "old ways" going on.

    I remember seeing a thread on here where somebody used an early Chevy six valve cover with the beads that cross over sectioned about three times and brass T style wing nuts to hold it on. Need to search that one again. It was perfect.
     
    upspirate likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.