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Projects Iron duke Chevy

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CopperBandit, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Still on the fence about it... I know alot of you guys arent down with the frame swap, but a bagged S10 frame under an AD chevy with a 5 speed would be nice... just not sure the 2.5 will get up an go quick enough????
     
  2. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    The AD seems like a lot of truck for the 2.5 to drag around. The S10 chassis, however, has a long history of success under that sheetmetal when equipped with a V8. I guess the worst that could happen is that you end up having to go back and do the V8 swap after the chassis swap.

    Personally, I want to see somebody stick a 216 or 235 in the S10 chassis.

    -Dave
     
  3. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Both versions are called Iron Duke, the early ones like in a chevy2, and the later version with the cross flow head as well. I guess both are correct. have one in my T, wih a Weber carb, runs real well with an HEI distributor, and another full race motor in an old Sprint car that's 99 % done, currently has a Holley 2 bbl, and an HEI also. Starts up good,but haven't run it yet. (Also have a Mallory mag, and Kinsler injection for it for sometime later on.) Neat choice for a light weight car, and lots of speed stuff out there too.
     

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  4. dudley32
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,135

    dudley32
    Member

    You can make them look pretty good, and they are cheap!
    I have this rebuilt one taking up space in my shop, and I can't even give it away...

    you could give it to me..:)
     
  5. Sass
    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 50

    Sass
    Member

    I have an Iron Duke GM 4 banger in my Lil Nash Metro. I bought a Offenhauser intanke off ebay awhile back... fits up perfectly. It wasnt cheap.. Maybe they repop them by now. Worth looking into if you want to run a carb :)
     
  6. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    I'm willing to be wrong, but the way I remember this is that the Chevy II engine wasn't called "Iron Duke" when it was new. The Iron Duke name was coined to differentiate the new/later engine from the very troublesome aluminum Vega piece that preceded it. Either due to confusion or intentionally, along the way people started calling the earlier engine Iron Duke too.
     
  7. gtkane
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 327

    gtkane
    Member

    Yes I could....if you are up for a road trip!
    I'll even load it, strap it down, and open a beer for you!
    Just back up your truck to the big door on the shop...
     
  8. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,096

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Ditto!!! I never heard of the early chevy II 4 banger being called a "Duke" Try looking into some HOTROD mags from '74... I think there's a few articles on the newer Pontiac engine..
     
  9. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,761

    bobscogin
    Member

    Ditto +1. The Chevy II 4 banger was not called an Iron duke in it's day.

    Bob
     
  10. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    To get further off topic: Has anyone built a Chevy II with an Iron Duke? Or maybe a '61-'63 Tempest?

    -Dave
     
  11. The 153 is a 230 6-banger with 2 cylinders lopped off. 230 X (4/6) = 153.333.
    The last car I saw one in was a 1971 or so Nova.

    Bob
     
  12. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,072

    Model A Vette
    Member

    Chevy designed 153 was offered in Chevy IIs from 1962 to 1970.
    The early box nova ones used a front sump pan.
    '68-'70 used a rear sump.
    The same engines were used in some Postal vehicles up to '71 or '72.

    The Iron Duke was a redesign of the original engine to be used in Pontiac Astre, the Pontiac version of the Vega.
    The Iron Duke never came in Vegas but was offered in Monzas and its clones.
    I think '75-'77 and early '78 Iron Dukes had the intake and exhaust on one side.
    Late '78 thru '80 had crossflow heads with the intake on one side and the exhaust on the other.
    They came with 1 bbl or progressive 2 bbl carbs.
    I think all these Iron Dukes used HEI distributors.
    All these engines had the Chevy V8 bell pattern.
    Chevy engines used 283 pistons and had a 3 7/8 bore.

    The Iron Dukes had 4" bore and 3" stroke.

    In 1979 1/2 there was a redesign to use the Iron Duke in the new FWD cars.
    The biggest difference is the small bellhousing pattern that was used on the then new 2.8 V6.
    I think these later engines used computer controlled distributors.
    The first ones used carbs then they went to throttle body and finally fuel injection.
    Fiereos used the V6 bell pattern.

    S10s and Camaros used the V6 bell pattern but had a slightly different block to be used in RWD vehicles.

    I think the starter mounts on the drivers side in FWD and on the pass side in RWD.

    There are current marine versions of these engines. I think the latest may come with 1 piece rear crank seals.

    To make a later TBI engine look more "retro" you could use a late '78-'80 intake with a 2 bbl carb.
    The HEI would look too new but it is probably worth using for reliability.
     
  13. jville_hot_skater
    Joined: Apr 9, 2009
    Posts: 1,002

    jville_hot_skater
    Member
    from jville

    I would just go with copper tubing...like someone else suggested....you can even polish out the tubbing.

    I wouldnt want to swap it out for a carb tho.
    TBI is better in overall performance and fuel economy.
     
  14. jville_hot_skater
    Joined: Apr 9, 2009
    Posts: 1,002

    jville_hot_skater
    Member
    from jville

    yep.
    all iron dukes, 2.5 gm engines where produced by pontiac.
    jeeps, pontiacs, amc, chevys, gmcs all used the Iron Duke...its one tough block.
     
  15. i have one out of a 80' amc hornet!
     
  16. wizzard23
    Joined: Dec 12, 2009
    Posts: 733

    wizzard23
    Member

    Yep, ModelAVette has alot of good info on the history of these motors. I've got one in my Track T. I started out with a 153ci ChevyII that I ran for several years till it developed a crack in the block. I then came up with a 151ci Pontiac from the mid 70's, had intake and exhaust on the same side like the Chevy. Those Pontiac manifolds were UGLY. Figured out the Chevy head would bolt on so I could use my smoothed and powder coated manifolds, so went that route. Also had to use the Chevy cam ( I think fireing order is different, can't remember for sure.) Anyway, been running this combo since 2002 0n a car that gets driven with good luck. I have a few Chevy heads but they are cracked, so this may have been a common problem on the early ones in dailey drivers that got little care.
     
  17. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,096

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    I've known that since it first came out...
     

  18. So, do you like the Chevy II or the Iron Duke better? Is one torqueier than the other? That's one sweet track T man! My boy just started a T project and I'm trying to get him to build something like you have there. I visited your album; do you have any build pics, especially details of the chassis?
     
  19. wizzard23
    Joined: Dec 12, 2009
    Posts: 733

    wizzard23
    Member

    Thanks so much, man. I think the old Chevy had a few more beans than this current set-up, but it gets me down the road. I've got several snap shots of the final assembly phase, but have never loaded them on computer. Any questions pm me. This car is a blast, even with mostly stock banger.
     
  20. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,761

    bobscogin
    Member

    The Mercruiser went to the 1 piece seal around 1990. However, the Mercruiser isn't based on the Iron Duke. It's a larger displacement, made in Mexico version of the original 153 c.i. Chevy II engine. As far as I'm aware, none of the inboard/outboard marine manufacturers use the Iron Duke, but as always, standing by for corrections.

    Bob
     
  21. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,072

    Model A Vette
    Member

    "the Mercruiser isn't based on the Iron Duke. It's a larger displacement, made in Mexico version of the original 153 c.i. Chevy II engine"

    Mercury Marine has had a hand in hand relationship with GM for years. GM sometimes farmed out assembly of some of its rarer engines to them. I remember reading that at least one of the special Corvette engines was assembled by them.

    I included the info, that some form of the ChevyII/Iron Duke engine was still offered by them in case some (really!) rich person just had to have a new engine!

    I came upon that info when searching for a new rear sump oil pan for the '71 postal 153 I've had stored since '86.

    I forgot that when AMC owned Jeep they also used the GM 151 4 cyl in jeeps and Hornets.
    I believe they used the GM engine 1980 to 1983.
    I think standard trans versions of those cars used hyd clutch actuation which was rare for a cheap car.
    They later designed their own 4 cyl to replace the GM one. I think their's was a 150 cu in.

    I wonder if they did the same cut job as GM and just removed two cyl from their 6 cyl.
     
  22. Griznant
    Joined: Jan 4, 2010
    Posts: 93

    Griznant
    Member

    Yes, the 2.5L (150 cid) they put in base model Jeep Cherokees and Wranglers is their straight six minus two cylinders. Dakotas used them too, which shouldn't be confused with the more common 2.5L four-banger that Chrysler used in FWD cars. Not the same one.
     
  23. dexleo2
    Joined: Jul 20, 2008
    Posts: 145

    dexleo2
    Member

    Believe it or not I still have a 1982 Camaro that has the iron duke in it. 2 years ago I overhauled it and put it back in the Camaro. The camaro was my wife's high school car, and she was very blunt about that motor is to go back in the camaro not a 350. She seems to think the kids will drive it to school when they are old enough but I just smile because I know the boys will want to drive the 31 model A and the camaro will just collect dust in the machine shed.
     
  24. David Chandler
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,101

    David Chandler
    Member

    I have one from an 85 S10. Crossflow head, TBI, and a computer controled distributor. There is a lot of material that could be removed if someone wanted to put a carb on it. The only drawback would be lack of a mechanical fuel pump. Likewise the distributor could be swapped out for and earlier HEI. That would get rid of a lot of wires and so forth. It has a rear sump pan, and if you really need it a high volume oil pump from a Fiero will fit it. Also it's a roller cam set up, for what it's worth. It will put out some decent power, but not earth shattering by any means. Good for a light weight car with decent gearing.
     
  25. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Here's a shot of the Weber carb, mounted to a stock manifold. Made a base,and short duct to attach it in roughly the stock location and tigged it on. Carved the interior out with a die grinder to sort of match it up. Works nice, and the stock manifold is heated as well. Have seen several other similar conversions on a stock manifold, with Holley flanges etc.
     

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  26. oldskooloutlaw
    Joined: Dec 3, 2008
    Posts: 223

    oldskooloutlaw
    Member
    from Tulsa

    How would a Webber IDF work on the Duke ? I have on that I bought and never used it.[​IMG]
     
  27. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    I don't even remember what model mine is, but betcha it would work fine, although a little moe difficult to fab up a manifold. There are guys who know alot about them, maybe start a thread for webers...
     
  28. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,761

    bobscogin
    Member

    A way to differentiate the Iron Duke from the Chevy II is to look at the location of the distributor. Since the Chevy II is a short Chevy six, it retains the same oil filter, distributor, fuel pump boss arrangement as the 6. The Iron Duke distributor / oil pump is crank driven and at the rear of the block as opposed to the forward location on the Chevy II. Note also, that the Iron Duke valve cover is scalloped on the right side.

    Bob
     

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  29. Jalopy Jim
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    Jalopy Jim
    Member

    I have a 3.0 Merc cruiser motor and I would like to know if there is an automotive intake and exhaust that would fit onto that head?
    It now has a 2-1 intake exhaust manifold, can you cut the cast iron exhaust away from the intake and build tube headers if there is no automotive intake for this motor??
     
  30. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,761

    bobscogin
    Member

    If you can fab up tube headers, you can fab up a tube intake.

    Bob
     

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