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Hot Rods Installing a 200-4r in a 1935-40 Ford chassis with split bones

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Dirk35
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 2,056

    Dirk35
    Member

    Chris,
    When you do the install, can you take some pictures for us? I want to replace my Turbo 350 with a 2004R in my 34 eventually.
     
  2. 40 Coupe Since 69
    Joined: Aug 4, 2016
    Posts: 12

    40 Coupe Since 69
    Member

    I’m in the process, long way from finished, of swapping a T-350 for a 2004R in my 1940 Ford Deluxe Coupe and I’ll try to add what I’ve learned.
    First let me say that I am NOT a mechanic, a designer, fabricator, welder, just an old man working on the floor of my garage doing the best I can. I have a lot of basic tools and have been working on cars for years. But this turned out to be more that I can handle but once I got started there was no turning back, just trial and error and keep going.

    My first attempt (failed) lifting without a transmission jack -
    I bought a transmission jack from Harbor Freight and it worked for removing the tranny but it didn’t go low enough so I had to take the tranny off the jack while still under the car, I returned it.
    Once I got the 2004R under the car I tried to lift it with a floor jack, scissor jack and blocks of wood. Don’t even bother unless the frame has already been modified for the 2004R.
    1-IMG_20170418_110335 copy.jpg 1-IMG_20170418_110336 copy.jpg

    My second attempt (failed) was putting in tail first -
    I went back to Harbor Fright and bought a transmission jack.
    I spent a lot of time trying, put it up, see where it hits the frame, mark, drop the tranny, cut/grind and try again, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
    Thing was the top of the tranny kept hitting the bottom of the oil pan and no matter how high I jacked up the back of engine it still hit.
    2-IMG_20170504_163401 copy.jpg

    I know, I needed to get the car higher so I made a stand out of 4X4’s for the front wheels and moved the ramps to the rear.
    3-IMG_20170422_143858 copy.jpg

    Try it again, put it up, see where it hits the frame, mark, drop the tranny, cut/grind and try again, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Still hitting the bottom of the oil pan.
    4-IMG_20170430_174233 copy.jpg

    Still can’t get it to go and by now I have the frame cut up good.
    5-IMG_20170503_143341 copy.jpg

    I’ve got a new plan and will update soon, maybe tomorrow.

    Mike
     
    teach'm likes this.
  3. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,487

    Roothawg
    Member

  4. 40 Coupe Since 69
    Joined: Aug 4, 2016
    Posts: 12

    40 Coupe Since 69
    Member

  5. 40 Coupe Since 69
    Joined: Aug 4, 2016
    Posts: 12

    40 Coupe Since 69
    Member

    Got a recommendation for a qualified mobile welder that's going to come over next week and fix the frame.
    Step one, bottom plate for transmission mount.
     
  6. Just Jones
    Joined: Jan 11, 2005
    Posts: 928

    Just Jones
    Member

    So how did this turn out? Updates?
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  7. 40 Coupe Since 69
    Joined: Aug 4, 2016
    Posts: 12

    40 Coupe Since 69
    Member

    Thanks for the bump, I forgot all about this. it's in and working great!
    So, here's what I can offer -

    First, there are some things I learned that may be useful to you.

    What I Have, Yours May Be Different -
    My car is a 1940 Ford Deluxe Coupe, Chevy 283, T-350, ’57 Chevy rear end.
    Engine mounted with stock motor mount kit.
    Have a frame boxing kit with split wishbone mounts.
    Front is a 4” dropped solid front axel.
    Rear has parallel leaf springs with 2” lowering blocks.

    Get The Car Up High -
    It took me awhile jacking it up some, then a little higher and a little higher until I just built a 15” stand for the front and put the rear on top of a set of ramps. Much easier to work on this way.
    Another benefit was that I could roll the transmission in/out from the front of the car still strapped to the jack.
    The top of the bell housing didn’t quite clear the drag-link but I just tilted the front of the transmission down to cleat it.

    Harbor Freight Transmission Jack -
    I’ve removed and installed lots of transmissions, stick and automatics, and I never had a transmission jack, they were direct replacements but this was going to be different so I needed a transmission jack. I couldn’t find a cheaper one on CraigsList so it was HF.
    A few things about the HF jack -
    - Don’t use their chain hold-down, use a ratchet strap.
    - Get some washers and mount the side holders from the bottom.
    - Good chance ball bearings will fall out of a couple of wheels, buy new ones.
    - The transmission is going to move around a lot but you’ll be fine.

    Torque Converter to Flex-Plate Distance -
    When I first got the transmission bolted to the engine I noticed that the space between the torque converter mounts and the flex plate was kind of far, like a 1/4”. Search Google, they were all over the place, torque converter is no good, it’s the wrong one, something wrong inside the transmission.
    A trip to the transmission shop to get a real answer, yes a NEW torque converter will be about 1/8” but some are REBUILT. If they are rebuilt they will be cut in half, rebuilt, welded back together and the space will be about 1/4”.
    I don’t remember the exact measurements, mine was maybe .230, the shop said it should be between .050 and .110, use washers.
    (NOTE: If you run into this check with an expert to get the exact numbers.)
    I spent like an hour at the hardware store with my micrometer to find 3 sets of 2 washers together that added up to what I needed. I used grade 8 washers, I think metric because they fit the bolt threads better.

    Power Breaks -
    I had disc brakes in front with a Speedway power dual master cylinder mounting kit, after I split the wishbones wider they hit the booster.
    I couldn’t find a smaller booster so I tried moving the master cylinder towards the rear of the car.
    I made a temporary bracket that bolted to the Speedway mount and extend back 7” with another plate to mount the booster and master cylinder.
    Seems that where the Speedway kit mounts to the frame it’s at a little downward angle, with the 7” extension that little angle put the bottom of the booster below the frame.
    My car is really low and with the extention the booster was now about the middle of the car, not a good idea.
    I removed the booster, mounted the master direct to the Speedway mount, made new linkage to the master cylinder, works great.

    Wishbone split and transmission mount -
    Years ago I installed an X-Frame boxing kit with split wishbone and transmission mounts.
    I used the bottom plate from it to install the transmission mount and mounts for the wishbones.
    You may think that my wishbone mounts are way over-engineered that’s because, 1- I ended up cutting and welding the frame a lot and 2- I don’t think that a flimsy mount, like some guys use, will not be strong enough. I mean, look at how there were originally mounted and look at the mounts on the kit I used, now that’s strong.

    Transmission Install -
    You’re not going to believe this but it’s actually easy to install the 2004R in one of these. And you can do it with very little cutting of the frame.
    After trying like 100 times to get the transmission to go in I finally figured it out.
    The thing to do is position the transmission forward as close as you can to where it will mate the engine and lift it straight up. You can do this without the torque converter installed.
    After you get it up aways you’ll see where the bottom of the frame needs to be notched on both sides, you don’t even have to cut the sides of the frame.

    When you have the torque converter installed you need to have a way to hold it in place. I used a 1/2”X3/16” flat stock, cut it the width outside of the bottom bolt holes on the bell housing, drilled holes to match, drilled a hole in the center of the bar so a piece of thread stock could fit, put the thread stock in to touch the torque converter, put a nut on each side to hold it in place. I bolted it to the bell housing with bolts from the back just long enough to get a nut on, this way they will not interfere when installing the transmission and you can remove the nuts easy.

    Oh yea, the starter will be in the way when you raise the transmission but there will be enough room to move the transmission around to get past it, I didn’t remove the starter.

    IMG_20170904_170206.jpg IMG_20170904_170207.jpg IMG_20170904_170418.jpg IMG_20170905_093652.jpg IMG_20171015_165508.jpg

    All said and done, I love the 2004R!
    I’m a cruiser and don’t burn rubber but, if I stay in it, it will chirp the tires in 2nd and 3rd.
    On the freeway 70 MPH is 2200 RPM and 80 MPH is 2600 RPM. Life is good!

    Let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help.

    Mike
     
    teach'm likes this.
  8. FOURTYDLX
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 718

    FOURTYDLX
    Member

    Thanks, you did good, 350 trans, versatile rear end, 2.46 gears
     

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