The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rusty f100, Oct 6, 2008.
Considering shes Blind & Deaf, I'll let you be the judge of that.
You'll typically get a more "defined" dime look on aluminum, even without using any sort of "pulse." It freezes so quickly.
I'll occasionally use a slight pedal pulse when tigging al or ms, it's all about reading the puddle. If you know what you're doing there aren't going to be cold spots.
You can get a similar appearance using short arc MIG by playing with the motion. If you know how to read the puddle you'll be able to avoid cold spots. Definitely don't want to trigger weld that thicker stuff, you're not going to carry the heat and get the penetration.
IT Should !!!!!
You can also get that pulse look with a mig by going a bit ahead then falling back and hold for a bit, then rush ahead and fall back... etc. Don't take your finger off the trigger. Hard to type, but kind of like going ahead 1.5, back .5, ahead 1.5, back .5 etc. instead of going ahead 1:1.
Did that make any sense at all?
In response to Docco's question of How do I find the strength of those welds in reference to the ladder bar brackets welded to the axle tube ... I would NEVER argue that it is as strong as a continuous bead. It is not the WELDING INDUSTRY standard. I do however, feel that it is more than sufficient for the application, but that's just my opinion. In that circumstance (the ladder bar brackets) I have the welder set "hot" enough that if I ran a continuous bead, it would blow through, and the pause between is super minimal. Again, I am in no way claiming this is as strong as a continuous bead, nor am I trying to persuade anyone else to do it. It has worked super for me in most all of my projects without failure and is aesthetically pleasing to my eye. Back to my opinion of it being more than sufficient for the ladder bar brackets ... Although not as strong as a continuous bead, I personally don't think that enough power/force can be transmitted to those welds to literally rotate the axle tubes free of the brackets. But that's only my opinion ... and the opinion of the 946 horsepower engine under the hood! In all honesty, I thought I might catch some flack about my MIG welds because of the technique, but that's cool. That technique will most certainly be criticized by more people than not and I understand it's the strength issue. The reason I'm OK with using it for a lot of things I do ... At the end of the day I can hang my welding helmet on a 1/4" grade "5" bolt, granted I know that a 1/4" grade "8" bolt is stronger, but I also know that the weight of my welding helmet is not going to break the grade "5" bolt. Make sense? Maybe I should have posted those pics under a "somewhat pleasing to look at but not necessarily the strongest welds" forum ... LOL!
If you like craftsmanship of all kinds and incredible welding skills, check out this thread.
This build on this vehicle has been going on for over 10-years, but only the last three years has been fully doccumented. The whole thing knocks my socks off...not JUST the welding.
1320, you totally got the words outta my mouth.
i think theres so many well done cars around w/ chassis welded that way that by now everyone should know it actually is strong enuff for car applications.
Yes it makes sense, but you can look at most of the welds like that and see that these guys are pulsing with the trigger. You can see the divet in the center that is the tell tale sign. I've played with it to see if you can make a good looking (TIG like) weld with a MIG. Suffice to say if you want a TIG look, get a TIG.
Yup. I've always preferred a smooth mig bead myself, with no pimples or spatter, and all our parts that are MIG'd will always be like that. I think it's a sign of a steady hand, personally.
A little off topic, but I always like when a singer holds a note without doing all the wah-wah stuff that's popular these days. Think John Denver vs. Christina Aguilera. I think John Denver has (had) a way better voice.
1320, you're right, it's not going to break just because it's like that instead of a smooth bead... and if that's how you do it- keep doing it well. Do you do any TIG welding?
A lot of bad welds hold up a long time under normal circumstances.
I'm of the strong belief that a lot of hot rod/motorcycle builders would be well served by at least going through the process of a couple AWS/ASME certifications. If you've never bent a coupon or looked at an x-ray or an etch or gone through the "book" of what a weld should be, you just don't know what you don't know.
This was done using a similar method to what DW described....I think, it was a couple years ago lol
Not exactly like a Tig bead, but it's a decent looking weld and there aren't any cold spots.
mig welds by Brown Dog Welding, on Flickr
Great answer, thanks for that. I was genuinely curious and not trying to start anything, looking through all your other photos its obvious your an awesome welder and thats why i picked you to ask knowing i'd get a genuine answer.
Where i work i was shown how to weave my mig welds in a backward "C" motion to get a sorta stacked dime look but started to do the spot weld welds on 'light' fabrication jobs when i weld up because the vertical up weld puts too much heat in (like you aluded to) and looks cleaner sometimes than a vertical down. Thanks again.
yeah you did, that is what im doin to try achieve the look. i think im having decent results, considrin i was layin straight beads only, till about a month ago. still not postable, but i never call it quits till im satisfied
ouch, didt see this.
yeah i know what you mean, my first welds (on a bicycle frame) held up for years, but lookin at them some time ago they really looked like crap, something i would put in the "how not to weld" thread. they were stick btw.
as far as your 2nd statement i kinda agree, its all in the application imo, a well built car is a well built car, regardless of x ray tests.
Or are we saying that all cars that we think are well built could actualy be not?
I just hope you guys keep talking about MIG techniques. I'm still on my very first bottle of gas, and sometimes it goes OK, but most times I just have to laugh. But I'm figuring it out a little at a time, and it helps to read what people that know how to do it have to say about how they do it. So, thanks.
I'm always amazed at the poor technique and unsafe practices depicted on these shows. On one of the chopper buildoffs the guys frame actually cracked on the way to the show where they were going to display the bikes. And of course there was the incident on the OCC show where the idiot kid knocked over a big bottle of gas that wasn't chained and they all thought it was funny. I would've said "see you later" and found a job somewhere else.
When you start down the "I haven't seen one break yet" or "this weld might not be right, but it's 'good enough'" path, it's a slippery slope. I've chatted(and worked with) too many guys over the years with that mentality, guys that think that they haven't seen a weld break, therefore it won't break.
I'm not saying you need to x-ray car frames. My point is that so much of being a top notch welder is experience, and the experience of doing a weld that's scrutinized for proper size, x-rayed or bent or etched or dyed, is a valuable one.
Yeah, that's it. I've talked to several CWIs over the years that have said that if a tig weld passes visual inspection, it's almost assured of passing a destructive test. But that's assuming the joint prep is correct, the design is right, and the bead profile is the right size.....things that often get overlooked in a hot rod/bike shop.
And mig welds are another ball game. It's really easy to get cold spots and dirty welds that might not jump out at you upon inspection.
Less talk, more porn.
Thats some awesome work man. I gotta get some decent pics of mine to show off
Why the weave?
i like to look at this tread because my welding isnt good its ok for some panel repair jobs etc but not for structural work so imagine my surprise when the wife tells me she is going on a welding course. that wont last i think but i was wrong she loves it but best of all she loves the tig and is best in the class so the instructor says. so i bought her a good secondhand tig and she took it to school and the guy showed her how to set it up and she did real well with it and im well proud of her when she gets a little more confident i hope to have her weld in the roll cage of her gasser.
I told my wife she's not allowed to touch the welder until after I get decent with it. She's spoiled hobbies for me before by being better at them than I am.
Just another trick in the bag. You can cover more area than with a stringer.
That is awesome.
Im am amazed at some of these welds. I am learning as I go on mine I doubt I could ever be that good but I always like to try to better my skills. Here is a bracket I tigged its 1/4" I would welcome any input on how to improve.
in my limited experience i've found that the ladies learn welding faster. two reasons for it first they don't have the MACHO hang up and second growing up their hobbies use their "small" muscles and men grow up playing sports etc that uses their "large" muscle. i know that is a broad generalization but i hope you get what i mean.
Keep doing what you're doing. Nothing wrong with those welds. Refinement of style comes with torch time.
i agree, in fact if i feel a weld aint good, i'll grind it off, split the piece, clean and start over, when possible of course, cause sometimes, grindin and get over it is the only possible way.
But im known for workin on something for days, then bin it cause im not happy and start over, so for me comes natural.
I agree on experience. but as much as im sure that weldin school is top notch, hell just look at what you do, its incredible, im also a firm believer that you can learn most anything alone w/ high results...of course it takes longer, but take me for an example, im broke, live on minmal wages and cant afford shit. story of my life, always had to do stuff myself or have nothin.
i think we can stop here thou, cause this could easily be a 40 pages discussion, ahahah.
Not super incredible, but the piece on the left is two stainless washers I welded together for a bracket with a 3/32" tungsten. The washers are about 1/16" thick each.
Those job are aways fun!
Couple new pics.
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