Just spent a weekend in Alabama with a friend who has a '36 Ford Tudor with a 283" and a '96 Chevy 2500 with a slightly built 350". Both have 4.11 rear gears. These days, with double-overdrive 6-speed automatics which shift down two gears at every little rise in the road, we sometimes forget the pleasure of driving a car/truck which is in it's happy spot in top gear. On the curvy two-lanes of rural Alabama, the ride was sweet, sweet, sweet. Never a need to downshift or even to touch the brakes. Just back off, listen to the pipes and it slows the necessary amount for tight curves. On the interstates, the engines were a bit more busy, noisy and thirsty, but felt relaxed and free-running; never a bit of strain. It was just good machinery going about it's business. We put his A-bone on a trailer behind the truck and never knew it was back there. Once up to speed, the Turbo 400 never shifted down, no matter what the hill. Yes, it was 12 MPG, but a stock 305" or 5.3 with all the overdrives won't do much better dragging that load and with the little engines fugeddabout passing when hauling heavy. His truck will yank by a slowbie without even thinking about it. Driving his in years past convinced me to gear up. Can't wait to get my custom Studes - a Hawk with a 4.09 and a Stude 3/4t with 4.10 back on the road and listen to them Packard V8 pipes. Definitely will sound even better than the SBC ;>) jack vines
I have to agree that I dislike the multispeed automatics. 4.10/4.11s work best with a 4 speed overdrive auto and a 28" or taller tire. I run anywhere from 3.70 to 4.11 with an o/d slush. The 4.10/4.11 is not so good with non o/d trans on the Fwy - gets too noisy and fussy on trips....
Glad your happy, but I'm never again going to build a car with out an overdrive for western U.S. driving. As far as downshifting for every rise in the road, you just simply don't have enough power. Tell that to the guy in the mid ninties Corvette that tried to keep up with my Plymouth up the grade between El Centro and San Diego while I was running 85-90 in 5th... Also galvinized by a 2000 mile round trip in a friends '30 coupe (now "Hub cap's" here on the H.A.M.B.) to Texas with a 4:11 in the rear and a powerglide. Busy? How about a 283 "howling to the point of turning up the discman to 12 and hoping it stays together at 85", all while trying to keep up with ElPolacko before the twin turbos. Then there was the LARS trip with my buddy Ron Olmstead in his '35 phaeton with 4.11s... Nothing like doing 65mph screaming in the right lane while every other car on the planet slides by effortlessly going 85 - 100 in the left. Absolutely great for the hot rodder image. Oh, and you mentioned the fuel consumption. Did I mention my Plymouth has turned back a high of 19mpg with aprox 420hp? Ya, can't imagine why anybody would want a 5 or 6 speed... Damn new fangled things!
I get both arguments... But man for just local driving 411s are pretty rad... Until you wanna keep up on the freeway
Valid points all. Thoughts: 1. Goes without saying, 4.11 are for tall tires only. Both these rigs have 16" - the truck runs 235/85-16. 2. If for trips of more than 100 highway miles at a time, then yes for the overdrive. Turning 3,600- 4,000 at 80 MPH gets a bit noisy on a long run. 3. Rodding is about doing it your way. Some are willing to go period-correct and live with the compromises. Some want the look with modern power and economy. Your build, your money, your decision. My friend is in Alabama, with a lot of miles of curvy two-lane back roads where as I said, the 4.11s are a natural. I'm out west in Spokane, between the ass-cheeks of nowhere, so I admit I cheated on both my Studebaker builds and they have overdrive manual transmissions. But I still get the off-the-line goodness of the 4.11s. 4. GM now puts 3.42 rear gears in their pickups with the 6-speed double-overdrive automatic. And yes even though they are LS V8 powered, they downshift at every rise in the road. jack vines
Back in the day when 3 sp overdrives were the shit 4.11 was standard gear, still is as far as I'm concerned, when using an overdrive trans, stick or automatic.
My c10 had a 700r4 with 29 inch tall tires and 4:10 gears - it was perfect. My current project has a 4 spd saginaw with 32 inch tall tires ( may go smaller) and 3:73 gears. I got my fingers crossed as far as this combo being workable.
you'll be fine! I've got 4 speed, 3:80's and 29.5" tall tires and at 3000 RPM I think I am right at 70 MPH. It works and really gets up and goes when you lean on her.
I had 4.11s in my OT '68 Stang, really quite a good gear to keep the revs reasonable and plenty of gas pedal punch when needed. I did run taller tires to give it longer legs. My double-secret OT import also has the same gear with the 4 speed OD. Out of OD, it is nice to drive on steep grades. Bob
How about this? Doug Nash 4+1 with 3.07 rear. 5th is straight through, but 1st is equivelent to 4.09 rear with wide ratio 4 speed. The other 3 gears have an equivalent of about 4.0 to 3.9. I probably won't get to try it out for another year.
2 car that I have owned with OD trans and low factory installed rear gears. First was a 53 ford it had a 4.26 ratio. The other was a 53 Studebaker factory V8 with OD trans it had a 4.56 gear.. Never had the following but Kiasers came with 4,56..51 Merc had 4.11 and 4.26 gears also. Pre war olds had a 4.30 gear.
4.56s with 28" dot's in my old street car, my Chevy II is getting 4.11's with a 26" tall tire and a 200R4, I call that having your cake and eating it, but the OD is just icing, if I was putting a T350 in, I'd still keep the 4.11s. Actually looking at building a cheap O/T shop truck, I was looking at 3.73s or 4.11s with 26" tires & a T350 for that as well. 3.08s belong in your moms car...
yes 3.08's do. my mom's chevy II ran 11.07 @ 130 mph with 3.08's a muncie 4 speed and a 26 tall 7 inch wides. it would pull 115 mph in third gear. ITS ALL ABOUT THE COMBINATION !!!
11.07@130 eh? So what you have there is a low ten second car that is running a second slower than it should due to the wrong rear gear. Yes, like you said, its all about the combination.
got a 55 poncho 287with a 53 ford 3 speed w/od and 57' 9" with 4.11 gears with posi and 750 16 tires in rear in my 29 roadster.perfect around town and perfect on the freeways.did 80@2500 rpm to vegas and back
combo? how about a 327 with a 283 crank [big bore short stroke] 4.56 3 speed manual. don't need a radio [wouldn't hear it anyway] just listen to the motor scream.
Funny how I can remember me and my buddies switching over to 5.13's in the summer ( early 10 bolts ) for a couple weeks. 30 A, 34 Coupe and 32 truck all 4 speed and small blocks. Had to shift really fast and gas was 50 cents but what a rush. Now a days overdrive in everything I build but still at least 3.73 in the ass end,.
Jack V., as you already know, my newly purchased Stude 3/4 ton has the big six with OD and a 4.11. I can't wait to see how it drives around town and on the highway. Also, shame on you for being in Aladamnbama and not letting me know. I would've driven over, shook your hand and bought you dinner.
I drove a 4.11 for many years every single day in every day traffic, but with my early inline 6s a 3.55 or similar ratio without overdrive is as simple, easy or 'sweet' as it gets. With that ratio you stay about 90% in the same high gear, with lower end torque pulling uphill like a train and at higher rpm, without shifting, reaching highest mileage at 65-70mph on the freeways. Talking about simple: 3-on-the-tree without overdrive or automatic gets my praise, whatever rear ratio that matches your car and engine.
I had 4.11 gears in my first 40 Chevy. I'd set the tach at 4,000 rpm for 72 mph. Knocked over some good gas milage. It was perfect, I had 2x4's with a progresive linkage and at the 4000 rpm it was bumped up to the secondarys so I was running off the primarys. Wife didn't like the noise though...
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