The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Nov 12, 2010.
I just laughed out loud!
I was once told "a good way to define something is by describing what it is not"
- I think it is safe to say the HAMB is not the crap that Janet publishes on a monthly basis.
Keep up the good work Ryan and I really enjoyed the video.
I will now refer to the big magazine guys as Janets from here on out.
I grew up reading SR and R&C in the 80's & 90's. As much as the '70's-present day era get's dis'd here I can understand Janet's frustration a bit. A lot of members here basically say (on a regular basis) that everything done in the last 40 years is garbage.
...but that's freedom of speech, man. Roll with it or move to another country where you don't have that right.
I like this place. Not to crazy about that Janet person though
Don't be a Janet.
janets probably all pissed off because more people join the hamb on a daily bases than subscribe to her crappy magazine. keep up the good work ryan. we got yer back.
I was curious as to what this Janet person looked like so I googled pompous ass.
Ryan you rule! Janet..............fuck you! Don't know if I can put it any simpler. Thanks for everything Ryan.
Janet doesn't understand (and is clearly frustrated) how a guy can start something in his dorm room that outperforms his trained marketing department. I do.
So I've been thinking..
I've also been coming here for a decade.. (Did I say that out loud?) and I also read many of the magazines with Street Rodder and Car Craft being my two current favs of the monthly publications. While not under the monolithic Source Interlink shadow, I'd even say that I'm in the print industry also, as I work for one that is mainstream-ish, and one that is more HAMB friendly than most.
From my point of view, love it or hate it, the HAMB has helped the fabric of hot rodding... It was created for all the right reasons and has helped build enthusiasm for a segment of hot rodding that has sold more magazines, created new titles, and cultivated new products for advertising. It has brought many people into (or back into) hot rodding with the ease of answering questions with information that is accurate and honest. (Read those guys as magazine customers.) You can't have this many members and not affect the trends in some way.
When them new-fangled magazines came out, they did what the Internet is doing now: Shared information with an audience. Sure the real-time feedback and "trash talking" is disheartening to hear sometimes, but it's a great feedback tool, and more accurate than any other survey method you could use. Don't like what people are typing? LISTEN and try to see if you could make something better. It's a given that magazines are always going to have ads (a common gripe) and it's a given that you can't hold your computer up with a spread of your car on it and impress anybody. They each have their shortcomings.
Magazines might like to think that they influence trends, and that is a part of why some magazines began to suck, but the reality is that they are supposed to do what Gray Baskerville did: Watch something and then turn around and tell the world. Try as they might, magazines are still at the mercy of the public and what THEY want to do. Hence the vans, go-karts, and Volkswagens in Hot Rod and others.
It's a faster world, and any website that does its best to preserve a time when things were slower is a good one. The HAMB is just a huge virtual shop where people hang out and discuss things, including the latest issue of whatever magazine. In the old days people did that at speed shops and the drags, and I'm sure they were talking "trash" then, too. It's not a new concept. Neither is calling a hot rodder a hoodlum. If it wasn't for thrill-seeking "hoodlums," there wouldn't have been any hot rodding, or hot rod magazines, or a victory to WWII. Remember that.
A HAMB suicide is always funny, because you know you'll check back in eventually.
Sorry for not reading fully all the posts in this thread. I did skim and I saw Jerry's and Bass's responses, they are correct.
From my perspective, I was a manufacturer of kits that were advertised in magazines. I have very good friends that have been on the inside of the magazine biz and nearly all of them are freelancers now.
I have had conversations with Janet (like people) and his compadre's about the very things Janet is upset about. One in particular is, who is the magazines customer? Not you my friends reading this, no. "I" was their customer, advertisers are who they cater to these days. "You guys" barely paid for the postage to ship those bird cage liners, not even close to covering the print costs, distribution and staff that created them.
Once upon a time the magazines reported and chronicled the trends. Somewhere along the line they thought they had sway and could create trends, no shit, that is what I have heard from more than one Janet. Of course forgetting the true pioneers of hot roding. They are slaves to their self interests and creating new ad revenue.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I do not buy any of the magazines mentioned. The only one I get is Goodguys Gazette and that is because of my membership to them. And truth be known, I skim through them at best (sorry KIRK!). The reason why is influence. I don't want to see it anymore, I want to work on my own style and presence without the background noise of the "community" voice in my face. My choice, I understand if you like these magazines.
I have watched the mags groom people they like, I even got my ego stroked a few times. It feels good no doubt, but when the next flash in the pan comes along you're dross.
This flotsam keeps on keeping on.
I don't remember if it was something that Ryan posted or was mentioned in casual conversation, but it was about magazines and ad revenue. I have also heard it from Micheal Kaiser of RadiOblivion in relation to the new way of media, the new thinking behind success in this industry, create a product that people actually like and build a base upon that. Then you can sell advertisement based on that success instead of trying to create success based on your ad count.
Never drift focus on your base, works in everything.
I find this one VERY personal as I have for a LONG time had both feet on this banana peel. Before I EVER entered the hot/street rod print magazine world I was VERY into the HAMB. I think I once had a membership number 200. When I went to my first "street rod" based magazine I took both a long appreciation fro the print magazines I grew up with (having a full collection back to 1948) AND an appreciation for what was going on on the internet a decade ago. While the bosses REALLY appreciated the knowledge of the past- they were NOT at all keen on being in touch with the "present"- i.e. the internet- and more specifically the HAMB.
One day I was informed as editor of a well-known national magazine that my work internet privledges were completely taken away so I wouldn't waste anymore time on that "Ham Sandwich". I was using it to more keep in touch with what was ACTUALLY happening in the world as well as identify some of the many cars that would attend events and not properly fill out their window tag and I was required to put a name and city to EVERY car I used in the magazine- and A LOT of them were HAMB cars- I made it a point to see a couple "traditional" cars on EVERY page.
Slowly that organization became more HAMB friendly- to the point you see them mentioning the HAMB all the time and few of their current people are VERY well-known HAMB personalities who cannot be told they are no longer allowed on the HAMB.
My next stop in the print world was no more friendly to the idea of seeking ideas and a bond from the internet. They believed they were how it all started and the internet would never be a viable competitor. Slowly they have made cut backs and let many talented people go as the print world gets smaller and smaller. And even when I made my own forray into the on-line magazine world the only advice I received from the print guys is "Good luck, but it will NEVER be commercially viable". Well, really that wasn't 100-percent why I was doing it. I had seen the light that the print world was getting smaller and smaller and just wanted to be a part of the eventual future. To this day I haven't made one dollar off anything on the internet- that's fine, but it's day will come.
I totally understand EXACTLY where you are coming from and the heat you are getting from the old guard. I know from the inside they tried to ignore the power a decade ago because I took the heat for being a part of it personally. They are not willing to make the change so they will do everything possible to make you the bad guy- no true!
They also don't remember there was a time when the public COULD NOT believe a man like Robert E. Petersen would do something as IRRESPONSIBLE as printing a user guide to something as dangerous and morally corrupt as HOT RODDING!
I say YEAH Mr. Petersen, YEAH Mr. McMullen and YEAH Mr. Cochran for all being just crazy enough to put so much effort into entertaining us all.
Ever get so pissed that its better to just keep your mouth shut (or fingers from flying) and turn the other cheek?
If Janet could have seen into the future 12-15 years ago, I wonder if she would have not tried to start something like the Jalopy Journal herself, because she thought it might ''destroy the fabric of hot rodding''? I dig your site and I learn something every time I get on here. The immense amount of knowledge immediately available on your site helped me finish my project.
thank you Ryan,
I'm proud to be a part of what you (we) have here
Here is my perspective. I was watching one of the various 'Hot Rod' related shows that come on every Saturday. My wife made a comment to me while she was watching with me one day - "they all seem like giant commercials". In fact, that is what they are, under the guise of a how-to program. To me, that is also what car magazines have become, too. For the few articles stashed away in between the pages of ads that you can actually glean some useful info from, is it worth it? If you have a far-superior interactive, wide-ranging, and commercial-free source for your automotive entertainemnt, that only costs you if you wish to donate, which would you choose? The death nail was driven in place for magazines a long time ago, and it had nothing to do with Ryan.
Well put, Jim... (Where's my "thumbs up" smiley?)
I'm sure glad I'm here and not on Planet Janet...
Seems to me he cant handle the truth......taken from his letter - "you have allowed the audience to speak their mind carelessly and recklessly"
I guess he doesnt like what YOUR audience is saying about his medium so he is blaming you? Instead of addressing any real concerns he may read on the HAMB about why as a group most of US are not buying or reading the print publications he blames US for speaking our minds and being careless.
I think that right there points that his logic is off kilter, and the rest of his rant just seems to follow the same.
Interesting. At one time it was upstart little magazines that spread the info that speed shops existed and gave you a look at what was going on all over the country in hot rodding.
Without those magazines how would you have known about what was cutting edge on the west coast for example?
It was communication that brought hot rodders together. Made them aware of what was going on and it HELPED spread the stuff.
Seeing a drag race in a magazine was not like really being there, but you could see a bit of what it was all about.
Now the tech and the form of communication has changed and it appears somebody might not like that. (Janet)
But the funny thing is those magazines still have a role to play, they just will not be the number one form of communication. You still have to go to car shows and the drags to really feel the full experience but the web/internet and magazine allow you to get a taste.
The web is a faster and more direct means of communication, that has hurt magazines, but I don't see it as the total end for them.
I get sick of being in front of a monitor and enjoy the mags I get. If they continue to give me a product I enjoy I will continue to buy them.
The internet, and to an extent the HAMB, is part of the reason the so called "rat rod" spread. Given that you have to remember their are a bunch of magazines that cater to that and the rat rods have also been on TV. They all played a part in that concept spreading and turning into a horrid fad in many ways (deathrods).
I think Janet does not like the fact that a magazines place has been changed in the overall scheme of things.
I also find it interesting how so many magazines really have a problem with feedback, be it positive or negative. They are used to delivering information in a one sided format telling it "how it is" from their point of view.
The HAMB means direct feedback. Sometimes that is not a good thing but most of the time it is.
It sounds like Janet does not like the off the hip comments and feedback, the emotional responses that happen on here. The fact that things can take root here and spread might bother them? Maybe I am off base but the hoodlum thing shows Janet thinks this is a total land of anarchy and it is not.
I wonder, is Janet secure enough in their own convictions to out themself on here? I would like a further information on what they are trying to say.
Nice response Ryan.
Mine would have been made up of two words & would have been far less tactful.
the downside to the internet is the disappearance of many of the images used here. try to look at some of KIRK!'s event coverage from the past, it's just gone. image hosting is fluid, unlike the (relative) permanence of print...
HAMBers are not mindless minions following the latest fad. Keep up the good work Boss.
Please make this the next H.A.M.B. shirt!
As long as my wife keeps banning me from carrying to the computer into the bathroom to read while I poop, I'll buy magazines. Lately I've become a fan of Rod "N Custom and am getting ready to subscribe. Same goes for Hot Rod Deluxe. There is no war here. It's all good. Magazines can't compete with classifieds, instant tech advice, or just the sheer volume of show coverage that the HAMB offers. By contrast, the HAMB does nothing to help me poop. Everybody wins.
Shouldn't this thread be shut down for to much drama?.........OK......Just kidding
.....I will too.............Big Bad John.......Ryan....keep up the great work..
A perfect example of someone not THREATENED by the internet (we actually met there). Kirk knows that you cannot match what he's doing on the internet with what he's doing in print so he's more than willing to give some away free here. All you have to see is one of his varnished magazine covers and you will know what I'm talking about. That one thing was probably lost on 95% of the audience, but to us print geeks that was RAD!
Janet didn't get the memo that things were changing.
Separate names with a comma.