In 1963, If you sat down with a car dealer...

Berger Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, MI is another... Still at it today with Hi-Performance stuff.

 

Sorry don't know Jim Wagner any more than you know me. I do have plenty of proof of my original point.

Guess if I really wanted to I could cruise across town and snap a pic or two of the one here along with the original documentation, or dig the old magazine out and look for the and scan it for you. But that would only prove that they exist not that if you say something like that all the "experts" will chime in that it doesn't and never has.

I personally don't care if they ever built an oddball car that resembled a muscle car, or even if the muscle car restorer crowd ever gets a breath of fresh air. Hell I don't even care if you get offended by the fact that your world is not really round but that it is indeed an oblique.

There is a lot of strange out there if you ever get off the couch you will find some.

 

You just said it was not a GTO wagon in another post above, but in the same sentence you said it was one of two GTO wagons. Your info conflicts with itself.

The PHS for example is a pretty big deal, but you say you know better...fine, whatever.

I met Jim at a Pontiac show once, and I used to have a 69 Judge and I am pretty well versed in them. No Judge ever had a 350, the PHS would know about one leaving the factory with one.

I was commenting that no GTO wagon exists, experts have been debunking it for years.

You like to argue don't you? And from the tone you now want to make it personal?

I am sure you have some more smart ass stuff to say, go ahead.

Why don't you get off your couch and back up your claim of a GTO wagon?

 

No big surprise, I forgot about the BW T10 actually. I guess I had Toploader on the brain as the 289 Mustang I had was equipped with the 3 speed "Toploader". Just the same, I bet we agree it wasn't a Dagenham.

 

If it were 1963..I'd order a 63 -1/2 Ford lightweight Galaxie..427,2X4bbl carbs,4 spd..White with red lightweight bucket seats..Fiberglass frontend and doors,Aluminum front and rear bumpers..And go DRAG RACING..

Just like the one I currently own..Only nicer condition..This one has been sitting since 1975!

 

you could still get a 409 in 65... a good frined of mine has one, 340HP with a 4 speed... factory 65 SS 409

 

The name is Jim Wangers. He was the Pontiac advertising/marketing guy behind the GTO and later the Firebird/TransAm campaigns and in Pontiac circles is often referred to as the "Godfather of the GTO". His book, Glory Days: When Horsepower and Passion Ruled Detroit is a key resource for the history of PMD performance in the 60's and early 70's.

 

Here's a pic of a nice clean one for ya...

 

Thanks Bill, I wondered when someone was going to correct Merc

Its always interesting when an expert chimes in and can't reference the source/name correctly.

I live in the same small town as David North the GM chief designer (yeah I spelled his name correctly) and spent a few hours in his studio listening to GM war stories and some skunkworks cars made it out to civilian life without being crushed or dismantled. A few of the chief designers and execs have "signature" editions stashed away.

 

Wow, sorry...to Jim for misspelling his name.

Its always interesting when another expert chimes in and makes a comment about what is a obviously a simple mistake and claims they noticed it after somebody else pointed it out.

I should have caught that though, I was just reading about how the new Judges they were going to make named after him have been called off.

 

Yeah, Pontiac was really big into this. Not too long ago I read about a Trans Am with a crazy blue interior built for an executive. Too bad stuff like that really does not happen anymore...

 

In fall of '63 ,,if you went to a Pontiac dealer in ,,Canada ,,and wanted a new '64 Bonneville ( called Peresian (sp) up there) ,and wanted the biggest & highest HP motor ,you got a dual quad 425 hp 409 Chevy ,with a T-10 four speed ( no Muncies) ,,,Canadians didn't get Pontiac motors back in the '60's ,,even tho my new '69 SS396 Chevelle was from the GM assembly plant in Vancover ,,there were no Big Block Chevy motors available to Canadians for a few more years ,,
Talk about a Kool Find now ,,a '63 - '64 Canadian Pontiac Bonny with a 425 / 409 ,

 

I ran into one a those '64 Canadian Bonny's in '66 ,,i was on my way down the Al-Can Hi-Way in my tri-power '64 GTO ,from Anchorage to Iowa for my sisters hi-school graduation ,,i pulled offa that 1400 miles a gravel in the Tukonand stopped at Whitehorse to get gas and buy booze ,,we didn't get COORS in Alaska ,,but the Yukon did ,,plus Crown Royal was half the price there in Whitehorse ,while gettin gas ,,i heard that familiar sound of solids lifters comin' down the street ,,he pulled into the gas station to look at my GOAT ,,it was a '64 Canadian Bonny Convertable ,,black w' a white top & interior ,,
i had the hood up on my GTO ,he came n looked at my Tri-Power 389 ,,then ,,he popped his hood ,and there it was ,,a dual quad 425 hp 409 ,,
there was about 2 miles of blacktop on the Al-Can there at Whitehorse ,,we JUST HAD to go out and run em off ,,he got me outa the hole buy a car length ,,then i got half a that back in 2 nd gear ,,then pulled even in 3rd ,,,i pulled away in 4th gear ,,i just stuck my arm outa the window and waved goodbye ,,shoot ,,i still had 2000 more miles to go ,,
wish i had the black Canadian '64 Bonny Convertable today ,,

 

I tell ya Connman, those Canadian GM muscle cars have always been interesting to me...the whole "Acadian" being a Chevy sold as a Pontiac or however it worked is neat.

They always had the craziest trim on them, I think they are cool.

Check out this Nova/Acadian:

 

I don't give a rat's ass whether there was one, or two, or ten. Or none!

BUT; Just because you.jim.wagner.and.the.rest.of.those.guys never heard of one; That ain't proof. Absence of proof ain't proof of absence.........................

Just pointing out how pompous statements like that sounds to us turkeys..........

 

That's a Kool One ,,,i have a buddy in Ontario that has a '57 Canadian Pontiac ,,it's actually a '57 Chevy with Pontiac Front n Rear sheet metal and side trim ,,has a Chevy dash & interior ,,he made a gasser outa it ,,has a tilt front ,,trick 327 & 4 speed ,.,but i'm glad he kept the original side trim ,Grille,Emblems and head & tail lites ,,kool kar ,

 

And what part of "all the records of Pontiac have been kept" and the Pontiac Historical Society has them and scours over them is a problem for guys like you?

Why would people key to the GTO and it's development constantly say no such thing happened and you would not believe them?

Why is it every time a "phantom" GTO wagon is in a magazine they comment about how they did not exist? Are all the magazines doing a great cover up?

Why on a specific top of the line package like a GTO Judge would they ever put a 350 in it when not a single GTO ever had a 350 in it until the lame duck '74?

I have facts backing me up, you claim you don't give a rats ass but you butt in and make that comment?

You are another guy who just like to butt in and fight.

 

I don't care what porknbeaner or anyone else has to say (with absolutely zero evidence), Pontiac never made a single GTO wagon. I'm going to die a content man knowing that anyone who is anyone in the Pontiac world has said so. It's a mute point to argue....the sky is blue, the grass is green, a bear shits in the woods, the pope wears a hat, and Pontiac never made a GTO wagon. Have fun disagreeing!

 

Here is another Acadian but the pics are real bad...

 

very cool ....I always wanted a beaumont SD (1966) or a 56 mercury truck.............seemed like every one I found when I lived in Oregon was a rust bucket..........

 

In 1966 Art Pyler from Lansing, MI ordered a 425 hp 427, 4spd, 4dr full size Chevy wagon. It replaced his 340 hp 409 powerglide 4dr wagon that his wife took the kids to school with and he drag raced on the weekends. We (Shaker Engineering-Bay city, Mi) blueprinted the engine and he raced it in NHRA B/S for a couple of years before returning it to the street as a daily. Awesome car that would ocasionally red light by picking the front tires UP out of the lights (thus redlighting) before it ever moved an inch forward.
\
Frank

 

Pretend it is 1963. There are two here.
Don

 

MERC: neet pics of that Arcadian ,, ,,alot of those Canadian cars and trucks showed up in Anchorage during the '60's,,
Meatball; a buddy I was Stationed With at the Air Force Base in Anchorage back in the '60's showed up one day with one a those '56 Mercury Pick Ups ,,had a really kool and different grille , i had a '54 Ford F-100 at the time w' a Rochester Injected 283 ,,he took that Canadian Truck to Auto Shop and put a 354 Hemi in it,,,,he got outa the A F same time i did in '65 ,,I stayed up there ,,but he drove that truck all the way home to Indiana ,,

 

Just found this pic ,,1966 Pontiac XP798 Scorpian ,,,Hhmmmm,,don't think my dealer coulda ordered this on for me ,,my pockets were deep enough ,,lol,lol,
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In 1963 my Dad bought a new Dodge 330 station wagon with the 413 Max Wedge option. It had the cross ram intake with a 4 bbl on one side and two-2 bbls on the other side, and a push button 4 speed automatic. it also had dual overhead cam turn signals, electric hub caps, heavy duty muffler bearings and the optional transistorized heated bumpers. I seen it with my own 4 eyes, so there!

 

yeah !! My Cousin had one a those ,,just like that ,,,too bad ,,he missed a curve at 180 mph and got KILLED !!!

 

Musta been defective muffler bearings. I heard they had a bad problem that year.

 

No GTO wagons were built.

I think truck 409s were considerably different than passenger car 409s, someone that knows better might shine some light on that.

No Plymouth was built with a Hemi before '66.

My dad test drove a '69 Chevelle SS that had a column shift auto. I tend to think weird, quirky things could happen, but they are pretty well known about by now.

My grandfather managed a Dodge dealership throughout the '60s. He ordered himself a brand new demo, a red '67 Coronet R/T with 440/auto, black interior, and Magnum 500s. As soon as it was delivered, his boss (the owner) told him he couldn't have it, that no dealership manager should ever be seen in a two-door car. So my grandfather went back inside, and proceeded to order another Coronet, this time a red four door sedan with black bucket seats, a 375hp 440, dual exhaust, floor shift 727 auto, 3.23 gears, heavy duty suspension and brakes, and Magnums. He loved that thing. Said it was faster than just about anything else he came up against on the street, Camaros and Mustangs were laughable.

My good friend's father had a white '64 1/2 Mustang fastback. Supposedly they were released in 65, but this one had a 260/auto, a generator, and steering and trim parts that were exclusive to '64. It was supposedly owned by Sonny Bono when new.

 

Uh, nope...but I am sure I will sound "expert" when I say this and get jumped on.

1964 the 426 Hemi was in the Plymouth and Dodge.

It was the 1964 Maximum Performance Package. It was called the Hemi Ramcharger in the Dodge and the Super Stock in the Plymouth, both had these decals on the chrome valve covers.

And of course I am leaving out all the 50's Plymouth's with Hemi mills. < Incorrect info, see below...Sorry Gotgas

 

A guy in the area had a 56 F100 (or whatever they called them in Canada) Merc truck...it was one killer looking ride.

I thought the merc truck was better looking but I was never real hot on the merc cars (Monarch, right?...I am running from memory and don't want somebody calling me out on a minor mistake like a certain name I mentioned) grill treatment in Canada.

This cool Canada stuff needs its own thread...