In 1963, If you sat down with a car dealer...

You could get a Lemans wagon with an Endura nose like a GTO, I believe it was the T41 option. They were pretty uncommon.

 

>>Yep,,the one I had ,I took Moose huntin' several times ,,hauled out a couple 1100 pound Moose thru 20 sum odd miles of snow / ice and rocky turran ,,no road ,,ran it in the hill climp competition in the mountains above Anchorage ,,drove it to Fairbanks as a pit truck for the MidNite Sun 600 mile Sno-Mobile Race ,,it was 70 below zero in Fairbanks ,,real temp ,,not chill factor ,,drove it in 4 wheel drive for 100 miles during a big sno storm several times ,,4 of us went Carabou huntin' in it ,,pulled a trailer home , over 250 miles ,,with 12 Carobou on it ,,100 miles of that was Moose Trails ,,no road ,,pulled my Drag Truck to the Polar Drag Strip with it on Sundays in the spring n summer of '69 ,,heck ,,even let my dumb wife drive it ,,THAT was the werst ,,lol,,lol,
the other guys treated theirs werse than i did ,,

 

The T41 option included the Endura front end and hood, available in '71 and '72 on all A-bodies including 4-doors and station wagons. There are actually quite a few still roaming the streets. I just ran across a T41 LeMans last week.

The GTO was never a "trim package". It was a performance oriented option available on the LeMans in '64 and '65, became it's own model with specific identifier in VIN from '66-'71, reverted back to an option from '72 until GM mercifully killed it in '74. It was never a "trim package" and, with the possible exception of '73, always included specific performance hardware above the base level of other A-bodies.

All of the urban legends of '72 GTO convertibles and '70 GTO wagons, and 428 '67s, have been debunked years ago. Debunked to the point where nobody even brings it up anymore. Pontiac had great foresight in saving virtually all of the production records after 1960. Don't think that every invoice or billing manifest available to PHS hasn't been combed over looking for "special" cars, some people dedicated their entire lives to just that. Think about it, the model is clearly identified in the VIN. The VIN is used not only by factory, dealer and parts networks, it used by government agencies, insurance companies etc., for a multitude of reasons. For a model and style to exist, the VIN codes would have to exist. If the 2-5 digits of a GTO VIN indicate the model and body style, 42 being GTO and either 17, 37, or 67 for sedan, hardtop or convertible, where does the wagon identifier fit in ? Quite simply, it doesn't. The GTO was built on the image of performance. Pontiac spent a lot of money to uphold that image and would have never stood for tarnishing it's reputation by sticking it on a station wagon.

Sure, there were probably lots of options and combination and even some motors slipped into just about everything imagineable by all car makers that the factory claimed to never have built. But in this case, we are talking about "creating" an entire model line.

 

BTW CONNMAN, that is a fantastic shot of the two 64's lining up at Polar.

 

Okay- How about a '64 Mercury Comet Villager wagon with the GT 350 suspension and engine?
Or-
A triple black stripped down '63 Galaxie fastback with the 427 high rise option?
Or-
A '65 Galaxie bi-black with the 427 high rise option?

 

yes it was. and was it a real dog, what was the issue on the drivers side they as I recall were all front steer?

 

In 1965 i would order a '66 f-85 2door post, 425, L-69 tri carb, w-30 o.a.i., 4 speed and 4.33 gears

 

my dad was a big Parnelli Jones fan, and had driven Mercurys most of his life, so his 1964 purchase didn't seem that odd to him. But it did confuse the salesman. Some cussing, a talk with the owner of the dealership, and cash money dropped on the desk got him what he wanted.
1964 Mercury Marauder Super 427, 4 speed, heavy duty everything, radio delete, full bench seat, black on black beauty. He kept it the normal 2 yrs and traded it off on a 66 model.
Yes I know.
Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Connman, did this B/B Blazer have a 2bbl carb?

Back in the day, you could order some unusual stuff.
I've owned, been around and seen a few factory oddities, here's some:

55 Chevy 1/2 ton Panel Delivery- 6cyl & 4sp Hydramatic
64 El Camino- L76/365HP/327, 4sp, bench seat, tilt, tach, power windows & A/C!!!
67 Camaro RS/SS- L34/396 T400 -console/gauge delete (idiot lights,column shift)
67 Camaro - plain jane 6cyl, PG trans, radio delete, w/bench seat!
73 Chevelle SS454 Wagon (1 of 1200?) only year for SS wagon
55 Chevy 1st series PU (looks like a '54) - 265 V8 & Powerglide
62 Corvette - base model PG, factory Cadillac purple paint (Kiwanis Club ordered 12)
62 Corvette - base model PG, w/power steering (P/S not offered until '63)
57 Chevy Sedan Delivery with windows (92 made) had SPL paint code
70 Monte Carlo - 400 big block, 4 speed, bench seat
65 Impala Wagon, 340HP/409, Muncie M-20, 3rd seat
68 Impala Wagon w/disc brakes- had 67 Corvette DC rally wheels under factory caps
68 Camaro SS- L72 425HP/427, PG. 4:56 posi, California smog pump, factory hood
I bought this car in 1972 w/22,000 miles from Bob Tindle (Orange Crate fame)

So rixrex, keep lookin' for that 409 SWB

Here's the one I'd like to have found:
Steve McQueen bought it new.
1958 GMC Suburban Carrier (Cousin to the Cameo)
factory Pontiac V8 w/McQueen upgrade to tri-power
Hydramatic transmission
Sold at the recent Peterson Museum auction for about $120K

 

If I could swing a COPO today, I think it would be a Lucerne with the 6.2. That would be tits.

 

That car is a front wheel drive...

 

Not when they drop it over a sigma platform, as per my imaginary COPO order

 

I would have loved to order a fully loaded '69 RS-Z/28 in my favorite color... Fathom Green with the white stripes... I had one that I bought used, but it didn't have the RS stuff.

 

Oooh, that'd be slick. Or a 1972 with a tri-power big block in dark gold poly with medium gold poly stripes.

 

Might I also throw into this lively conversation, the following:
What are the chances that at some point, somewhere in time, the factory "ran out" of standard V8's, and for a couple hours, they were forced to put the high performance version into the standard Mom and Pop 4 door sedans......
Hmmmm... Factory installed 427 where the 390 was supposed to go?
Yep... It has been known to happen.

 

He'd probably have to change a stinky diaper...........

 

Chief Wannabe : Thanks ,,that pic was taken the end of June of '66 ,,i'd just got back from a 8,000 mile round trip to my sisters hi-school graduation in Des Moines ,Iowa,,,i hadn't even been home yet ,,just stopped by Polar and saw they were having a huge Stock Eliminator Race ,,over 50 cars ,,i didn't even change the spark plugs ,,just unloaded the suit cases ,,borrowed a set of 7 inch slicks and entered the GTO ,,my wife & one year old son sat on the suit cases in the pits & watched ,,ended up winning the darn thing ,,
wish i had that ole~ Tri-Power "Goat" back ,,

 

Yeah, I'm gonna build the 348 into a 409 with the WorldProducts stroker kit and put it into the 64 SWB...some other examples I've owned, a 47 Pontiac SilverStreak? (Aero sedan) with every option known to man at the time, it had a rear windshield wiper! it had a lit mirror on the passenger side sun visor that had "Pontiac" engraved in the glass..I have a 1980 GMC Caballero (El Camino) that is a 350/350 with posi-traction rearend and all electric..There are some bad-ass 63-64 Studebaker Larks that were ordered with all the factory R3 go-fast stuff, Paxton turbocharged 289s and four-speeds, some that still race today in the Factory Stock Muscle Car Drags...

 

Are you sure that wasn't a '70 Fairlane/Torino with a 429?? The biggest motor Ford stuffed in a '70 Falcon was the 302 sbf.

 

There was a recent article in High Performance Pontiac magazine that mentioned a '71 Lemans that Monk King special ordered with the T41 Endura nose - it's blue, but otherwise it sounds like the car you saw: http://www.highperformancepontiac.c...rebird_1970_pontiac_lemans/1979_trans_am.html

 

In 1964, I would've ordered a Dodge D100 Custom Sport Special, short wide 4x2, with 3.91 gears, factory 426 Wedge with dual quads (it was available, two are known!) and automatic. This would also include factory bucket seats and console, racing stripes on the hood and roof, and other options that were CSS-specific.

Copied from the CSS Registry site at www.customsportsspecial.com:

What is a CSS?

CSS stands for Custom Sports Special.
CSS is a trim package and could be ordered on D&W 100, 200, Sweptline, Utiline, and Chassis cabs type trucks. The CSS package was offer from 1964 thru 1966 but examples of 1967 CSS's were produced.The package consists of various parts pulled from other vehicles. The CSS option was around $235.
The trim package includes:

* Bucket seats (Dodge Dart)
* Center console (Dodge Polara)
* Carpet on floor and gas tank (hand cut and stitched instead of pre-molded pieces)
* Chrome bumpers
* Racing stripes
* Motor options include 225 slant six, 318 poly head V-8 and HP 426W (only on D100 and D200)

if you have Dodge ads or brochures that show the CSS package being offered in 1967 i would be interested in acquiring a copy - see contact info below.
What is a HPP truck?
HPP stands for High Performance Package. The HP Package could only be ordered on D100 and D200 long bed trucks. .The package was officially offered from 1964 thru 1965 HOWEVER verified examples of a 1963 and a 1966 truck have been produced. The HP package was again pieced together from other Dodge assembly lines to create the package. This Package was retailed for over $1200.
The HP Package includes:

*
365 hp 426 cubic inch Street Wedge and 727 pushbutton transmission (early "Palomino" trucks came with 413 engines)
*
Power Steering
*
Heavy Duty instruments with 6000 RPM electronic Sun brand tachometer
*
Dual Exhaust
*
Torque Rods (Chrysler Imperial - above axle traction bars)

 

Dagenhams were behind the 170 inline six, a Toploader would be behind the 260. Dagenhams were an English box and not too strong.

 

I recall GTO wagons coming from the factory back in the day, or was that an urban legend?

 

That is a legend. You see a lot of GTO, GTX, Coronet R/T, Chevelle SS and such built as wagons that never were. NONE were built from the factory. Otherwise known as "phantoms". Not to be confused with a "clone" or a "tribute" car.

 

In 1960, Ford offered the Thunderbird with the big 430 V8 as an option. And obviously Lincoln had the 430 in '60, and Mercury had that engine series too. It doesn't seem right that the fullsize Fords of that year are left with the 352 special V8 as their top option, even with the late introduction Interceptor 360hp package.

I've heard rumblings that some police departments may have gotten 430s in their '60 Fords. Why not? All the bits were available and well tested.

I'd have liked to sit down with an agreeable dealer and special-ordered a two door Ranch Wagon with 430, Interceptor package, T85 three speed, and then splurged on a radio, PS, PB and AC. With any luck I'd still have it.

 

Actually there are at least 2 GTO wagons factory. I know of one here in the metro and I have seen it and the paperwork. It is not called a GTO Wagon but it does have the GTO trim package and the big single 4 engine and 4 gear.

I also saw one in Hot Rod magazine a few years back that they also claim to has the correct factory paperwork.

I doubt that either was a showroom car I know the one that I saw was ordered that way, it still belonged to the original owner when I saw it.
Just because you haven't seen an oddball doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Here's one that'll set the Pontiac experts on fire. When I was a kid I looked at a Judge in a Portland area Pontiac dealer with a 350 single 4 in it. I know that the dealer could have changed the engine but its an awful lot of work to build a car that no one would want. The the car salesman said it was ordered that way and then the person didn't want it.

There was a '59 Thunder Hawk for sale on here a couple of years back with a 430. I guess it could have been swapped in. There was also a 430 Thunder Hawk at some of the local cruises a few years back that the guy had the original dealer paperwork and was trying to sell. he wanted way more than i would have given for an old car but I have to assume that if you knew what to ask for or had the cajones to ask you could have gotten one.

A friend of mine has a 2x4 427 '65 Galaxie complete with the headlight bubbles that he ordered before they existed. He read about them in a magazine as beng the car that Ford expected to win Daytona with and knew that they would have to sell some to the public inorder to get past the NASCAR rules (back when stock cars were still real cars). The dealer told him that he wouldn't be able to get one and that they didn't exist. He convinced them to call Ford and ask. He paid for it up front and waited almost 9 months before it arrived. Pretty damned cool car its as rough as a cob these days but like all things cool he's going to restore it and get it back on the road someday.

Point is that things could be had even though they were not your standard show room car but sometimes you had to be persistent to get them.

 

If I were sitting at a dealer in '63 I'd get up and leave and go look for a nice used 40 coupe.

 

I have a 64 Ranchero with a 260 and the 4 speed is a Borg Warner T10.

 

With the combo of the PHS, all the magazines dedicated to Pontiac's, and all the books and research done into them don't you think a GTO wagon would be well documented and in all of those countless PHS releases, magazines, and books? The Mustang and the GTO are probably the most researched muscle cars ever.

Get over it guys, no GTO wagons and no 350 Judges from the factory.

How much proof do you guys need? Jim Wagner and the rest of those guys words are are not good enough for you?