In 1963, If you sat down with a car dealer...

In 1962-65 you could sit down with a car dealer, discuss all the options that were available for the model that you were interested in, come up with a custom build sheet and if you had the money and the few months to wait, come up with bad-ass factory optioned car or truck..My question (dream) is, it seems that somewhere out there is a 62-65 Chevrolet half-ton SWB fleetside truck with a 409 innit, custom built by the factory. I have the truck and I have a 348, its not that I want to lie and say it was built by the factory, it just seems there ought to be one out there right? anybody know or heard of one? even if the dealer told you the 348/409 wasn't available in the small truck (it was available in the big truck) if you showed him the green?

 

Probably. I know for sure a 348 could be had in the 1 ton.
BTW, my dad sat down with the ford dealer in 64 to buy a little falcon ranchero with the 260 V/8 and a daggenhiem 4 speed with an 8 inch rear...not a big deal as they were prety common but fun as hell for a 16 year old kid...me

 

In 68 I sent my dad a list with the option numbers to order a 69 Cutlass W31 and it ended up for more than I wanted to spend (still under 5K though) so I revised the order and ordered a 69 Cutlass S with a total of 5 optons if you include the Holiday Coupe hardtop as one of the options. Dad put that on as I wanted the post car which was 300 lbs lighter. Car had a 310 hp 350, M21 Muncie, 3.42 Posi and am-fm multiplex radio and that was it dog dish caps and all.
The car beat me into the Dealer in Renton, Wa by one day when I was coming back from Viet Nam. 1100 down and 84.60 a month for three years.

 

I don't think an average Joe could order one. They had a list of options that you could choose from. You could not get a 365 in an Impala from the factory. It was only available in the Corvette. It's possible that somebody with deep pockets had one dealer installed before he picked it up.

You could order a GM car from the factory and pick it up in Detroit and save the delivery fees. I had a 64 Catalina convertible that a woman ordered with bucket seats and a column shift. It was not a 2+2. She flew to Detroit and drove it home. I bought it from her granddaughter.

Just build it and come up with some cool BS story about it being an early COPO for a GM exec..

 

I had a 78 Cutlass that I bought from a guy that said while he was in the service he sat down with a GM guy that had set up a card table at a commisary in Germany. The fellow ordered the Cutlass with a four-speed and an in dash tach. It was a nice metallic silver with black vinyl roof and the build sheet was in the glove box. He picked it up at the docks and drove it around Germany while he was stationed there... I also had a 66 Charger that even though those cars are all four bucket seats with a console running all the way back, this one was a three on the column? it had an in-dash tach, a 140 speedo and under dash AC..

 

Almost anything was available back then if your pockets were deep enough. If the dealer couldn't get the factory to build it, they'd do it on site.

And Mr48Chev- thank you for serving my country. I'm very glad that you made it home to enjoy the Olds!

 

I was in Alaska in the '60's ,,Fall of '68 ,i was selected by the GM Dealer to be one of 12 to Test Drive thru the winter the then brand new '69 Blazers ,,6 came with 350's ,the other 6 came with 396 big blocks ,,i got one with the 396 ,,Orange with a white removable top ,us 6 with the 396's drove the crap outa em ,,thru out that 6 months of winter ,we went thru several transfer cases & transmissions plus a couple engines ,,,one of the reasons the 396 wasn't offered in the '70 Blazers , even on special order ,,A '69 Blazer with the Factory 396 is pretty rare today ,,

 

believe it or not, this truck exists about 3 blocks away from me. old dude wont sell it, i was tripping hard when i walked by it one day and he had the hood up and saw that 409. it looks like just a standard old fleetside pickup. 63-65 body style i think.

 

My Dad wanted a 64 Dodge station wagon and went to order one. He ordered it with a 318, three on the tree and radio delete ("You can't listen to a radio and drive") Got a really sharp exterior color with a white stripe inside the side chrome and wheelcovers with knockoffs on them. My mother wanted an interior color that was only offered on sedans, but to make the deal the dealer got the interior that my mom wanted...as soon as my dad got the car home he put huge ugly seat covers and big rubber floor mats in it. When i got the car to drive in High school a few years later, I took off the seat covers and floormats and had a brand new interior...custom ordered!!!
Does anyone remember when they had the order form for GTO's in the car mags? It was like three pages long and you could order every option you wanted, i think there was about three different steering wheels you could chose from, and then take it to the dealer and order it!

 

I guess someone has already seen one.

Never the less if you were willing to wait you could almost order anything that you wanted from the factory. Granted you couldn't order a Biscain with a corvette clip grafted on. But engine wise if it would bolt in you could pretty much order it and you didn't have to be anyone special just needed money and time, well that and have some idea what to ask for and the intestinal fortitude to ask.

Note that one very important element of what I had to say is that it had to be a bolt in. I seriously doubt that you could order a Nova with a 409 and even though GM produced a few dump trucks with a 471 Gimmy, it isn't likely you could order a C-10 with the same mill.

I have seen quite a few oddities over the years. Even owned a couple.

 

When i got outa the Air Force in Alaska in '65 ,,the 348/409's were pretty much called "Boat Anchors" or "Garbage Truck Motors" because the 396/427 came out ,,my buddy had a '64 Impala with a 409/425 hp 4-speed ,,one of the last ones offered ,,and he special orderd it ,,took 4 or 5 months to get it ,you could get a 1/2 ton pick em up back then with a factory 396 ,,but not a 427 ,,the 427 had to be dealer installed ,,and there was a couple up there in '68 and '69 that got those 427's ,,the '69 was a L-88 ,,belonged to the Bear Run Building Materials guys that had the B/Altered NHRA record holder Bantom Roadster ,the "Silly Bear Spl" ,,
my '69SS 396 was fun to order ,,the option list was pretty long ,,21 or more options ,,a 4 speed for $188 bucks ,,the 8 Track was ,,if i remember right ,was $27 bucks ,,3;73 Posi for under $100 bucks,,Sticker was $4300 including shipping ,but i traded my '66 GTO in on it & got $1800 trade ,,plus the dealer knocked $500 off because we were friends ,,
those were some great times ,,

 

before they were on the show room floor my Dad special ordered a '65 Chevy Impala with a black vinyl roof (deal deal then), A/C and a 409 with dual quads. This engine was available then. It took around 3 months for the call to come from the local dealer that his car had been delivered and they were just detailing it and he could pick it up the next morning. before he got ready to go down there got another call saying that Chevy no longer produced a '65 409 and that he could get one with the new 396. Dad was a very easy going guy that was ready to kill someone. our best bet is that some buddy of the dealer made a deal and bought the car on the spot. many years later I saw a '65 409 just like one my Dad ordered at a car show. shit happens.

 

U Know ,,i just remembered ,,there WAS a '65 Biscaine runnin' at the Polar Drag Strip up there with a 409/dual quad 425 hp anna 4 speed ,,BUT ,,there was also a '65 Biscaine runnin' there with a 427 ,,they had to run each other ,,and ,,needless to say ,,the 409 didn't do so well ,,it didn't race in '66 ,,
It's prawley sittin' in a barn somewhere up there ,,
the Stingly famly were Pontiac racers ,,Dad and two sons ,16 & 17 years old back then ,,they had Pontiacs i've never seen since ,,Catilina two door posts with dual quad 421's the kids drove ,,and the Dad had a Catilina Station Wagon with a dual quad 421 ,,they kicked butt back then ,,and my GTO racin' buddy Up There eMailed me the other day ,,they still race Pontiacs and have a yard full of every Pontiac they've owned since the '60's ,,every one of em Plain Jane White ,,

 

A factory big block Blazer would indeed be rare. GM never made a factory big block 4x4 truck or Blazer during the 67-72 period and sold it to the public.

 

I'm a lovin'this thread... Let's keep her goin'! .......... Gotta love those SD 421's... I wonder how many made it out the back door in an early GTO back in them days??? Here's a few pics of one in a Catalina...

 

A GMC ordered w/ ANY of the big block's w/4spd's. You know some of the heavy hitter's could have ordered up such a beast. A '63 Panel w/ that 421 dual quad, 4 gear.....meow!

 

Ayers Garage; Sorry to disagree ,,but in '69 the puplic could buy a 4 wd Blazer with a 396 BB,,My Dads Boss at Green Colonial Furnace Co in Des Moines bought one to put at his mountain getaway home in Colorado,,,in '71 after he died and the family sold off all his stuff ,,i bought it ,,and dummy me ,,sold it a couple years later ,,in '87 ,,living here in Missouri ,,there was a '69 Blazer for sale in Texas with the factory 396 ,,i bought it ,,drove it 'till '91 and traded it for aCad Seville ,,it's still runnin' around here ,,,HOWEVER ,,like I posted ,,due to the torque factor on the stock transfer cases ,,the 396 BB was NOT offered in a 4 wd in '70 ,,or ever again ,,'69 was the ONLY year ,,
Check with G M History and you'll see that very thing ,,

 

Back in the ,,Gosh ,,i think the '70's ,,Car N Driver Mag listed the quickest cars ,Zero to 60 ,in the whole world ..the dual quad 421 Pontiac Catilina was ,,,Number ONE ,,quicker than the BB Corvettes ,,the Ferraris,,The ,,well ,everything ,,AND ,,in '98 they did the thing again ,and the Ponchos Were STILL the quickest Zero to 60 ,,over 20 years the Pontiac Catilina dual quad 421's were the best ,,well,,that ended in 2000 ,,but it says ALOT obout our good ole` Pontiacs ,,

 

I'm not going to argue it, but I will stand my ground. I've done exclusively 67-72 trucks since 1991 and even moderated the 67-72 truck board for a few years. I'd be happy to read any information you could point me to that supports the matter and will gladly concede the matter if necessary.

Lacking that, we shall have to agree that we disagree on the matter and carry on with other matters.

 

It would be hard to authenticate it if they did. You could buy all the SD parts from the Pontiac parts dept to make your own.

I had a friend with a 61 Super 88 HT that souped up his 394 3 spd with "NASCAR" parts from the parts dept. and blew away all the 409s in the area. They didn't advertise the parts but if you knew someone with the numbers you could special order them at any Olds dealership.

I bought a 421 Poncho short block with a Crower 80R roller cam in 1967. A drag race refugee. Another friend found a set of SD heads. It was a nightmare to put together. I had to buy a new intake and rocker arms. Of course that was after my 389 parts proved not to fit the SD heads. I bought the Crane roller rockers because Pontiac wanted 10$ less for the stamped steel rockers than the aluminum roller rockers. I finally got it to quit bending pushrods 3 days before leaving for California. 100 miles...10 gals of gas averaging 50 MPH. It was not hard to calculate my gas mileage. It was in a 4sp 63 Catalina.

I was in the service. When I got out I sold it to a guy in Oxnard Calif who bought the car just to get the engine.

 

RickyRacer...so there it is, right down your street, no shit...that is pretty damn cool..so I guess I could white lie about it being a factory truck..keep pestering the guy and get the damn thing...

 

You can find the build sheet under the seat. So if someone has one the build sheet will show what it rolled off the assembly line with.

A lot of time just because something wasn't common doesn't mean it never came that way.

Give you an example if you went to a GTO forum and asked if GM ever produced a GTO wagon from the factory they would pretty much all post that it never happened. Never the less just about 20 miles from here is a '70 GTO wagon. It is not a '70 Poncho that someone hung a GTO clip on. it is a factory big block 4 speed car complete with the GTO front sheet metal, GTO trim package including dash and gauges etc. and the build sheet to prove it.

We need to recognize that in the world we live in nuthing is carved in stone. Someone who lives in a world where every little thing is cut and dried lives in a very small world.

I would and if I snagged it I wouldn't tell a little white lie about it I would tell a bold faced lie and spend the rest of my life grinning about it.

 

Ayers Garage: O K ,,we can agree to disagree ,,in a friendly manner ,,when i was selected to test drive the '69 396 Blazer in Alaska ,,I and the other 5 ,were told by the dealer to NOT baby em ,,drive em into the ground ,,because G M wanted to know if they would hold up ,,well,,they didn't ,,
i'll look thru my boxes of stuff ,,i may still have the window sticker from my Dad's Bosses' '69 396 Blazer ,,it has been a LONG TIME AGO tho ,,
BUT; my Dad ,who's 85 now ,,is a Witness ,,he bought the Blazer from Crescent Chevrolet in Des Moines for his Boss ,,it was a Employee X-Mas Present when the Boss Semi-Retired ,
Also: Crescent Chevrolet in Des Moines MIGHT still have a record of the sale ,,??/

 

A retired GM designer lives in my neighborhood. Years back we were sitting in his home office shooting the breeze and he said one of the best perks to being a lead designer was that every year the lead designers were given brand new cars. GM wanted their top execs to be seen in the latest production models as early as possible. When the 1966 model year order sheets came around to all the "hot shots" he was busy headed out of the country to spy on what the euro trash was up to and not paying attention when he filled the form out. He checked every option box by drawing a line down the side of the sheet and signed his name at the bottom. 3 months later he ended up with a silver vette coupe with no heater/defroster (delete option) and a 35+ gallon gas tank! He ended up having a heater/defroster installed, turned the car in the fall and said he paid more attention in 1967 and on.

 

I have a hard time with this. I know a few GTO guys in the KC area, and a wagon would be big news-

So just like if you said your wife GF was hot, photos or BS <G>


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rixrex there was a thread about a 409 C10 on the truck board a few weeks ago.

David

PS- Pontiac never built a big block

 

That,, only with the r2 motor (r3 would be awesomeness too) , 4 speed, 3.73/twin trac and disc brakes.

Geez that was easy!!

 

Yep ,,a couple years ago ,there was a '69 SS250 ( the fender emblems were thatt ,,SS250 ),Chevelle for sale on eBay ,,a 6 Cylnder '69 Chevelle SS ,,G M said they never built such a thing ,,but the guy sellin' it was 70 sumthin' years old ,,and had ordered it new ,AND ,,produced the build sheet from under the back seat and the pro tecto plate ,AND the original order form ,,it's now in the GM Museum ,,
lotsa crazy stuff took place back in the day ,,in '71 when i was on the Fred Gibb / Dickie Harrell Super Stock Race Team ,,in LeHarpe,Illinois ,,i werked on the No.1 '69 ZL-1 and the DZ 302 Camaros ,,we had 12 '69 COPO 427 ZL-1 Camaros still sittin' in the back warehouse outa the 50 Fred Gibb bought ,,,,couldn't sell em ,,i was offered one by Fred Gibbs wife for $7500 bucks and they'd take my '69 SS396 Chevelle in on trade ,,BUT ,,when Dick got killed in a Funny car crash in Canada ,,the team was disbanded ,,and Fred Gibb wholesaled those COPO ZL-1 's to other dealers ,,
Now,,they're werth a friggin' fortune ,,

 

I custom ordered my sight unseen, '67SS/RS Camaro from only looking at a flier back in Oct. '66.

I sat down w/ my Salesman and we went through the option list, line by line until I got just what I wanted an hour and a half later.

The old day's are gone!

Took position of it in Dec. '66 so it is my "1966", 1967 Camaro 350SS/RS car because I checked the SS option before the RS option.

Still have it out in the garage w/ an unfired 496 BB in it.

pdq67

 

I have a 64 Riviera Gran Sport..the badged "Gran Sport" didn't come out till 65..supposedly you could sit down with the dealer and order all the Gran Sport stuff in 64 as options..I recently sold a 72 442 smallblock convertable..I always called it the "Ladies 442" Rocket 350 SB, factory add-on 8-track, AC, console shift automatic, and it didn't have the exhaust pipe cut-outs in the rear bumper..those are my stories and I'm stickin with em...

 

Ayers Garage: just for the heck of it ,,I Googled " '69 Blazer w' a 396 engine" what came back was several listings ,,but the main one was the encaclopedia ,,it said " the main difference from '69 to '70 ,even tho they looked the same ,was the grille ,,and the 396 fender emblems were change to 400 " ,,Quote Un Quote,,,