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I'm Loosing my Cool, Litterally!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Aaron51chevy, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. This is the direction I would take, El deals with hot rods that have to live in way more heat then we ever get here.

    Seal the shroud and get a real fan.
     
  2. Shifty Shifterton
    Joined: Oct 1, 2006
    Posts: 4,964

    Shifty Shifterton
    Member

    Some of the junkyard fans you see will have a hybrid serpentine setup. A wide belt on the alternator, then 2 V belts for PS and AC. These are normal rotation. As long as the water pump is driven off the inside of the belt you're cool. If it runs off the back of the belt it's reverse.

    good luck
     
  3. jm36072
    Joined: May 9, 2009
    Posts: 11

    jm36072
    Member

    make sure your electric fans are blowing to the motor and not the grill, make sure the system is flowing well. You might also try just a restricter and no thermastat.
     
  4. Aaron51chevy
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 1,986

    Aaron51chevy
    Member

    WOW thanks for the replys guys!
    I'll try to cover what I can,
    I checked the timing, both static and advance, they are good and the advance is working.
    I did put the fan in, I'm about to go out there and drive it and see if it makes a difference.
    If not, I'm following El, Rudy, and Shifty's advice and replacing the fan (something else that is cheap and easy, like me!)
    The alternator is newer, I'll snap some pictures when I go out there. I'm home today so I can work on it all day.
     
  5. Aaron51chevy
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 1,986

    Aaron51chevy
    Member

    Here are some pictures of my setup, you can also see my cool radiator sealing technique! Hey it's only to see if it makes a difference. :p

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. That's a lot of clearance between the tip of the fan blade and the shroud - go get the clutch fan as many have suggested (bigger diameter too).
     
  7. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,426

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    if you find that your water pump is not part of the problem..i would definetly scrap that 4 blade fan..just doesnt look like it would pull that much thru..

    I tested mine with the oem 4 blade fan by holding a shop rag close to the front face of my radiator to see if it would pull it onto the face of the radiator..it didnt do that good of a job..I went and changed my fan to a more agressive pitch and more blades..i could hold that rag 6" or more infront of the radiator at idle..and it would suck that rag to the face of the radiator..

    try a different fan Aaron..a more agressive pitch and a bit larger diameter to fit in close to the shroud..and with more blades..i think at idle ..the one you have is just not pullin its weight

    Aaron..if you want to try a an OEM Chevy fan that has a deeper pitch and more blades, I have one on my 350 stand engine..its not done being re-built so you could use it for a while to see if it solves your problem..wont cost you a dime to try it. than if it works you know what you will need to do
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
  8. yellow wagon
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 612

    yellow wagon
    Member
    from WI

  9. Aaron51chevy
    Joined: Jan 9, 2005
    Posts: 1,986

    Aaron51chevy
    Member

    Alright back from the test and I think I have it,
    drove around the block to get it up to 160
    sat in the driveway like I'm sitting at a light, took 10 min. to get to 170 then another 5-8 min to get to 180 (still going up slowly),
    I switched the electric fan on, temp started falling all the way back to 170 before I shut it off.
    So,
    Air flow is the answer. I think the electic fan is staying right where it is, but I agree I need to replace the mechanical fan with something more agressive.
    I'd also like to seal up the shroud better, duct tape looks cool but isn't very durable :)
     
  10. Shifty Shifterton
    Joined: Oct 1, 2006
    Posts: 4,964

    Shifty Shifterton
    Member

    Go to the clutch fan before messing around with sealing the shroud. My prediction is it's never gonna exceed thermostat opening by more than 5 degrees with only the fan change. Once the air is moving you'll realize that radiator is overkill. Which is perfect.

    The alternator you have is not sufficient to run a properly sized electric fan. First time you're buried in traffic and are forced to run lights/wiper/blower the car will start dropping voltage. It's not about max output, the next generation of alternator is designed to double or triple what yours will put out at idle. Once the clutch fan is on I'd remove the electric entirely as it poses more potential problems than it fixes. Electrics are great and have their place, but that place is not on your specific ride. Just my honest opinion.

    good luck
     
  11. I agree with Shifty, go with a clutch fan, you do have a bit of space between teh tips and the shroud. Also, with the clutch fan, you will get better gas mileage.
     
  12. No offense, but that shroud isn't doing you any good at all.

    Pull it and go to the clutch fan as suggested . . . more blades and a larger diameter as well.


    Fwiw, a few years back after I'd cured my 32's overheating by switching to full time vacuum I had the shroud and radiator off.

    Put the radiator back on, left the shroud off to see what would happen.

    The answer was, not much.

    To be fair, the fan hangs so low in the 455 Buicks that the shroud is cut away on the bottom.

    Regardless, I put it back on.


    Do yourself a favor and seal the area between the upper radiator mount and the piece above the grille.
    A lot of air is escaping from that area and probably adding to the overheating woes.


    Ask any 39-48 Ford owner.
    Most of the factory (horizontal) sheet metal pieces at the top of the grille in front of the radiator were tossed on these cars.
    Things improve considerably when this area of bypassing air is blocked.

    Probably not a problem in your car, but some of these same Ford owners have replaced the inner fender panels with flush pieces.

    If you look at one of these Fords with stock inner fender panels you'll see they are bowed out at the rear so air can escape the engine bay.

    Some guys louver the aftermarket inner fender panels and are reporting there's an improvement to be gained there.


    Sealing off the air in the grille area in your car with a sheet of aluminum will be an easy project.
     
  13. onenew32
    Joined: Mar 11, 2008
    Posts: 126

    onenew32
    Member

    YEAH, what he said.
    Greetings from Texas, you know where we have 105 degree days, and 85% humidity. Some days I have trouble cooling my no hood, 302 CI, 16 inch puller fan, Afco aluminum radiator-ed 3 window to less than 210 running the AC, and what I have learned:
    1. 160 or 180 thermostat only starts the process sooner that will wind up at the same place.
    2. Pure water works better that 50/50, but put dog slobber or something in it to lube the pump. Up there in Mich remember to drain it about Sep 1 when it starts getting cold.
    3. Seal the shroud to the outer perimeter of the radiator as above.
    4. Use the biggest fan you can make work (48"?) and fit it as close to the shroud as you can. I think as long as all the blade width is inside the shroud, it's doing all it will do.
    5. Ask your electric fan person what the CFM of his fan is, and at what static pressure that is measured at. If he can't answer that and most can't, your dealing with a salesman and not a fan person. no one to recommend here.
    6. BIG ONE: make certain the 16 year old at O'reileys didn't sell you a pump or a fan for a serpentine car. These spin backwards from what you want.
    7. Running too cold is as bad as running too hot. you don't get rid of the condensation that might build up inside the motor until about 170 or so. Not a problem in Texas
    8. Don’t get in a pissing match about radiator materials; there is not enough room on this forum. You have seen that given proper airflow driving it cools OK.
    9. a suggestion to everyone here: get a GOOD quality bi-metalic screw in temp gauge. Moon sells one. and screw it into or near the upper radiator hose, where the hottest water is. It will come closer to not lying to you than anything else. No offense to any gauge mfgs, but any gauge will give you only a RELATIVE reading. That is if it is an electric gauge, all the threads have to be clean, all the grounds have to be good, and the voltage supply has to be stable, or it will affect the reading of the gauge. Mechanical gauges have their own set of concerns. Example: Your Bi-metalic gauge could show 180 when your electric shows 200, and if it does, you now know what this means when it says 200.
    10. I'll shut up now, and let everyone trash what I’ve written. Good Luck.
     
  14. Shifty Shifterton
    Joined: Oct 1, 2006
    Posts: 4,964

    Shifty Shifterton
    Member

    ^all great advice, and spoken like somebody who's dealt with problem cases.

    But in this case it's a car with low power and much larger radiator & grille area than a deuce. And not in texas, even though it's sound to build it for all conditions.

    There's so much advice here that somebody reading thru would think he needs to throw the entire cooling system to the curb and start from scratch. When in reality, look at what OEMs did for 2 decades of 300-350ci V8 production. Simple mechanical fan, simple shroud, not extreme levels of trickery. A reasonably sized radiator & grille, like in this case, does wonders in front of a low power V8.

    Dunno bout the rest of you but I've been driving 70s and 80s rwd V8s for a couple decades. They don't grossly overheat by design. And don't have tricky trap doors and booster fans and three temperature gauges. They do however, have clutch fans with aggressive pitched blades. And are notorious for overheating when newbies install fixed aftermarket flex fans, which closely resemble the OEM fixed fan we're talking about here.

    Anyway, my last kick at a dead horse. Tons of great advice in these pages but read carefully and apply common sense liberally. Good luck to all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  15. tbill
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 303

    tbill
    Member
    from central ny

    i had an o/t 71 camaro, driving to local shows it would run 1/2 on the gauge, went to the nationals with it, almost pegged the gauge, but didn't puke coolant. popped cap off, looked to have flow. got home, pulled my hair out looking for the problem. after the usual crap, it was mentioned maybe the block was clogged with shit from all the years it sat, went home, pulled out the block drain plug, and nothing came out! had to 'chip' it out with a screwdriver thru the hole before i got any coolant out. did a 4 hour prestone acid flush, filled it up, drove it, and it never went over 1/4 on the gauge again.

    just something to think about.
     
  16. onenew32
    Joined: Mar 11, 2008
    Posts: 126

    onenew32
    Member

    Agreed. It just shouldn't have to be this hard, some days.
     

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