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Hot Rods I'M GOING TO BUILD AN ALTERED.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don's Hot Rods, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. Like I said, we run tubless on all we build,slicks and drag radials. We dont screw the wheel to the tire.
    Some of our customers still do it. Lightweight cars like yours never have a problem.
    We have some 3000 plus lb cars running in low 4.0s on the 1/8 mile which try to slip the tire on the wheel. on these we use a double bead lock. not very traditional
    Speedy
     
  2. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I'm glad you mentioned that. I am going to look into it tomorrow. Kinda makes me mad that the guy at Summit didn't tell me that, could have had them mount and balance them before shipment, now I have to have it done locally.

    Don
     
  3. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,400

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The one good thing about having them done locally is when they get balanced, if they are way off, many times by rotating the tires on the rims, you can get the balance much closer so they need less weight. Pretty sure when there mtd and bal by Summit, it's a one shot deal.
    You need to find an old , ratty Bantam (or early T Rdstr) body for that wood frame. Make great "yard art". Just need some old wheels and tires to complete the look.
     
  4. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Haha, the way this one is starting to suck up money I might turn IT into yard art ! :D Like the old saying goes "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go ?"

    I just got off the phone with a tech guy at Mickey Thompson. These slicks do not need tubes but it is recommended because they will leak air during a pass. But he said if you check the air pressure before each pass I will be fine, and adding a little Dawn dish detergent to the bead will help slow the air leakage.

    So that does it for me, the tubes are going back to Summit. BTW, I have to say that the altereds you guys have been posting pictures of on this thread are outstanding, and way above what my little bracket effort will be. You guys have some serious race cars there and I envy you all.


    Don
     
  5. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,987

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    My suggestion:
    After the tubeless tires are mounted over the rims before you inflate clean off the bead area with solvent. Then mark your tires and wheels with an alignment mark to see if the tires are turning on the rims after a run. We use 12" wide tires with 60 foots in the 1.19 second range (8-second capabilities) and no issues. 10.5 tires should be less severe.
     
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  6. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  7. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  8. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  9. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  10. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  11. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  12. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,465

    AHotRod
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  13. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
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    AHotRod
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  14. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I would have never thought the one highboy version on the A frame would look that good, Glenn, but I like it !

    I'm just sitting here, waiting for the temps outside to get a little warmer, then I am going to go cut some tubing today.

    Don
     
  15. More inspiration...
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,400

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  17. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,588

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    I Like what I See here, even the things I only can vision in my head. B)

    But your coments on temp, I think I would call your BS, and prove it. :D
    Your in Florida, right?

    Its around freezing point, Gas cost triple what you pay and my job will be in China buy this sommer and I stay here :-(

    So I exspected to See progress on this, instead of talking about the weather! :D

    Its gonna be awesome, and I'm gonna be watching!!
     
  18. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Baron, thanks for the heads up on the wheels. Good price but I'm not sure what direction I am going on the fronts yet. But those are nice.

    Volvobrynk, but at least you have those beautiful women in Denmark to keep you warm.

    This afternoon I went to the shop and cut the 2 x 3 tubing into the correct lengths for the side rails. I deviated from the wooden mockup by adding 2.5 inches to the front and 1 inch to the back. It will look less stubby, and my wheelbase will end up around 101 or so. I chucked all the side pieces into the bandsaw and cut 60 degree angles on all the pieces, and cut two at a time so they are mirror images.
    [​IMG]

    The last couple of frames we built we did the front tube crossmember a little different than we had been doing them, and it really gives a much stronger weld. Normally, you just punch a hole in the inner wall of the tubing and slide the round crossmember inside and then weld around the inside wall and tube. Even welding the front part that you roll over the edge still doesn't give a full weld on everything.

    So, what we have done recently is to punch the 2 and 5/8 hole through BOTH walls of each piece of box tubing, then we weld a round cap on each side of the tube crossmember that acts as the new outside wall. We fully weld that cap to the outside wall, then fully weld the inside wall to the tube too. Then we roll the top and bottom edges of the box tubing around the front of the round tube and weld it even more. It is hard to describe, but it makes a very strong structure when it is done.

    Dan came over and helped me holesaw the front holes in the frame rails tonight, but he will be out of town and next week will be the first chance I will have to get him to weld it all up for me, but I have a lot I can be doing in the meantime. Here are some pictures of the frame pieces that I laid out tonight after cutting them.

    That hole you see in the outside rail will be capped and fully welded in place, and the square front will be cut out and rolled over the front edge to make it look nicer.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This will sort of give the idea of how it will end up. We did the exact same thing on my Sons blue T bucket and on my 23.

    [​IMG]




    Don
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
    volvobrynk likes this.
  19. Don, when we lived in Florida I built several altereds and roadsters. I found pictures of a couple of altereds with suspension we built. Maybe this will be of some help,please keep in mind these were built some 20 years ago ,so they are a little outdated. I never built a Bantam,only 23s and Fiats. I had a good friend whose last car was a Bantam. I always liked his car. I check your progress daily, looking forward to see the finished car.
    SPEEDY
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,987

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Excellent workmanship. I also like the way you mitered the rear crossmember.

    I can tell you're the type that once you set your mind to a project its FullSpeedAhead. That is a rare attribute. For most of the rest our projects are drawn out affairs.

    Having a nicely appointed shop helps a lot too I suppose.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  21. Frame rails have enough width for you,cage, pedals and transmission ? The one thing I would do different on my t-bucket would have been to make frame wider to the outside of the body. Is it going to be center steer ?
     
  22. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I don't know if the rest of you are like me, but no matter how long I do this, I still am like a kid at Christmas when the big brown truck shows up with new parts. Today UPS delivered my slicks and wheels and I couldn't wait to open the boxes. :D We never really grow up, do we?

    Anyway, I got my American Torq Thrusts in 15 x 10 with a 3.75 backspace. I wanted the wheels to be as deep as possible. These are my very favorite wheels on any car, and I knew all along I wanted them on this one.

    [​IMG]

    I also got my 29.5 x 10.5 Mickey Thompson ET Drag tires. I think they are going to be a good fit for this car and should hook pretty well. I ran a similar size M and H slick on our 68 Mustang, and that car hooked really well.

    [​IMG]



    And, of course, I had to slide them under the body to see how they fit, and was surprised to see that I might not have to cut the wheel openings any more to clear. I am going to take them and have the tires mounted on the wheels tomorrow, so I will be able to tell more once they are fully inflated. But I am lovin' the look so far. :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Don
     
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  23. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,400

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks great Don. I'm with you on the wheels. How wide is the rear axle you'll be using ?
     
  24. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Don't know yet. That is why I had to order the wheels and tires now so I can put them under the car, decide where they look right, and then order my rear end housing and axles to span that wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. I am guessing right now that will be in the neighborhood of 38 inches, but that is just eyeballing it..............I could be way off and won't know for sure till I set the tires and wheels in place.

    I also have to leave enough room between the outside of the frame rails and the inside of the slicks for my coil overs and maybe even my disc brakes.

    Don
     
  25. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,400

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I was wondering what look your going for. Some of them have the tires stuffed almost completely under the body, while others ,the tires are 1/2 out of the fenders. Really changes the look of the cars. ALTERED.jpg GSR_1776.jpg
     
  26. 9sectruck
    Joined: Dec 2, 2012
    Posts: 349

    9sectruck
    Member

    Looks great with the tires sitting there, that look alone is enough to spur you on.
    Spied a Moon tank sitting there in the background too, think I'm going to enjoy this build nearly as much as you are.:)

    Ray
     
  27. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Baron, kinda between the two pictures you posted. Originally, I wanted the tires tucked in like picture number one, but I need room for my coilovers, so the tires will have to be moved outboard a little more. It looks like 6.5 inches of the tire will be inside and 4 will be outside.

    Thanks, Ray. I'm getting pretty excited too. :)

    This morning I got up and went to a guy I know who mounts tires, does mechanical work, etc, and had my tires mounted on the wheels. I did go tubeless, and he did a great job with no scratches on anything. THEY SURE GOT BIGGER WITH AIR IN THEM ! :eek: But I am in love.

    [​IMG]

    I temporarily put them under the car to get the full effect, and this looks like where they will end up sitting. That will make my wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface dimension 43.5 inches. Now I can call Autoweld and order my 9 inch housing and Moser axles. Now that I look at where the tires ended up I am pretty happy with the way it sits.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    I have a question for those of you who race and use coilovers. I have used 140 pound coil overs on street driven cars in the past, but I think I have heard that something like 90 pounders are right for a drag car. But then I remember reading that someone had 90's and had to bump them up because the car handled badly. So, what do you guys think is right for a light car like this ?

    Don
     
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  28. [​IMG]
    I think I heard vroom-vroom noises coming from Florida...
     
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  29. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    I just noticed your question. Yep, it is going to be center steer. and I will be sitting on top of the rails. Normally, on the street frames we have built, we do make them wider by tapering them from 24 in front to something like 30 in back (as I remember). But this one doesn't need all of that width.

    Don
     

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